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Author Topic: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?  (Read 117047 times)

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:43 PM »
Quote
That is because Canon users are getting hosed and they know it. I have been a loyal Canon buyer for almost my entire pro life and I feel like Nikon has better technology and value. Why settle for less?

Indeed 10 year old boys.
Batman vs Superman.

Hosted ??? Sure !!

When you have to pay hundreds of dollars more for a clearly inferior tool, then, yes, you are getting hosed. And if you feel you have some "loyalty" to a  brand whose manufacturer clearly sees its customers as suckers willing to shell out dough because they are "locked in", then more power to you, Mr. More Than 10 Year Old Big Boy!

Yep... It CLEARLY inferior... prove it with real world apples for apples tests... Oh yeah, you cant.

Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

If you want absolute empirical evidence, then we have to wait for lab tests. The samples, however, clearly indicate D800 being the superior in terms of value and delivery.

The only logical argument for keeping 5Diii is that you like intangibles such as Canon service levels, ergonomics, brand name, history, etc.

Oh i must be mistaken, i didn't realize there were production samples out for both with final firmwares and such... I must have been mistaken
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2012, 01:17:43 PM »

DanielW

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2012, 01:19:23 PM »
@ bluegreenturtle
But what if in 2015 Canon comes up with a 5Dm4 that's better than the new Nikon D900 (or whatever number)? Would you switch back again then? I think it's too much hassle to keep on switching brands just for having the very best (unless it helps you make more money, and I don't think it's the case). Sometimes Nikon will win, sometimes Canon will win, sometimes Sony will win... Fine by me; I can stand having second best... :)

ZEROrhythm

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2012, 01:21:23 PM »
And IMO the lens possibilities for the Canon system are unsurpassed and offer more possibilities.

Yes - I think this is the key point for me. The only (pro) lens that Nikon has which is clearly better than the Canon equivalent is the 14-24 (that I know of). The "holy primes" (35, 85, 135) are unmatched. The 100 macro is amazing for studio. The new 24-70 MTF graphs show it to be the best by some way (although it's not cheap! And it's only MTF graphs so far). The 70-200 2.8 II is just better than the Nikon. The f4 zooms are a fantastic option - in fact Nikon stole the idea with their recent 24-120.

And why would you want to have more resolution with the Nikon 105mm macro (compared to the Canon)? http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=107&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=645&CameraComp=614&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=4

Lenses will make a much bigger difference to my photography than 1/3rd more resolution. Trying to get people to actually understand that is really really hard.

Let's face it, many peoples work never even sees an A3 printer, never mind anything larger. I know mine rarely does and I make money from photography. I've even seen amazing large prints from 8mp cameras.

People keep saying they want more resolution .... but few people are actually saying what they need it for?

I wouldn't even consider switching brands unless Nikon picked their lens game up quite considerably. The 5d3 might be £500 too expensive, but I wouldn't choose to make my photographs worse just to save £500.

Your point is every valid, but too bias. You forget that photography consist of many things, not just the way you  take pictures and your ways of doing things. Most people don't care for printing in my opinion with High Mega pixel, but what they  care about is the real estate that they have from that high mega pixel. I myself  Have a 5d2, it's a great camera, but I do wish sometimes I had more mega pixel because the lens i have can't reach so far and i need to crop to frame my scene better.  You can sample a lot of images better also if you have a large mega pixel file. I do  a lot of photo compositions and manipulations, and having extra pixel does make my image look  a lot cleaner when it comes to editing.

Lens is always an important part of photography, that's a given from the start of time, but giving more mega pixels will truly change the way we take pictures, because as the mega pixel count goes up with out sacrificing IQ too much, the more people will worry less about composition, because it would be an after thought.

I know that might not be a good thing for photography, since that is a main key point for taking a good photo, but things change, things will always change. If you live in the past and afraid to explore new areas and discover new things, you are no artist and have no creative mind.

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2012, 01:34:09 PM »
Seriously mate, i've never, ever, ever had any client gripe about DR... That's a photographer's thing... But anyways it's not lacking, and ALL SAMPLES TO DATE HAVE BEEN PREPRODUCTION... wait a week or two... let the tests be done, then flame to your hearts desire... I dont care what you think or anyone else thinks about this and that... If the cameras IQ is as good as the 5d2 with AF better than a 1d4, the camera pays for itself right there

Your saying the AF is hacked up like it's a bad thing... Your getting the 7D meter, which reads the light from the AF spot(s) to feed to the AF and meter system, and the 1dx AF module?  Ok... so this is the second best AF system has to offer currently... Yep.. bad thing... seriously?  The 5d2 had the 5th best AF or maybe worse and the 5d3 is almost as good as the flagship... that's improvement any way you look at it...

I'm not settling for what Canon or any other company gives me, but unlike you, i dont gripe on forums about it... I call Canon, Email them, I get periodic surveys about their gear/customer service/etc... answer them... check your spam folders for them... Register with Canon, Join CPS, those methods, while they may seem pointless, has more chances of being seen by canon's marketing and research than Canon rumors postings...

Nope, i'm not saying that the hacked up job for the Af/meter wont be good. For all i care it can be the next big thing after sliced bread. Its a matter of principle, its the way Canon deliberately nerfs down the 5d series. (remember when they couldn't put a better Af on the mark2 cause "there wasn't any space you guys!"?)

Besides, we're in a product forum, we're here to talk about the tool, whats the point of it if we cant disagree or vent about'em here? How we run our business has little to do with a Canon forum, in here, in my opinion, we expect a technical discussion either from a lab rat or a field reporter, be it before a release or after, don't you agree?

Please dont get me wrong, I'd love a 1dx packaged in a 5d at a $3000 price tag, but that's not in the cards... I fully agree with canon's blunder and the 5d2 AF... that choice to keep the classic AF was a disgrace to that camera and what really kept it from shining... but, i feel canon got it right with this AF... If it delivers what is promised, it will be plenty of camera for me to grow with.  Could it be better, yes, could my house be bigger yes, could my car be better, yes, but i'm choosing not to dwell on what I dont have and focus on what I do have and be a better photographer for it. 

When I started as a pro, i had no financial backing... i had to buy my 10D by maxing out my credit card at the time in 2004.  I bought the crappy 28-90 lens to get me by even though i would have loved a 24-70 or the like.  I bought the 50 2.5 macro instead of the 100 macro and the 70-300 instead of the 70-200... I didn't let them deter me... I knew I wasn't getting what I could get with better gear, but i didn't have the budget and had to make do with what I have... now i've got the lens collection i've got... yes I could have all 2.8 glass and 1dx and this and that, but i make do with what I have, i grow with everything I have, and i dont dwell on things I dont or out of reach.  I just get better, do more jobs, and save up for when I can get that new shiny gear... That is my perspective, my POV...  yes things can always be better, but to me, for my needs, and how I see things, the 5d3 is more than I could have asked for. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Alker

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2012, 01:37:59 PM »
Quote
Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

One other thing all D800 examples have gone thru Nikon NX while most canon examples are straight out the camera.

There are some raws from the Canon 5D Mark III
When process these with CS5 it looks much better, see here (did a fast conversion):

www.planepix.nl/5dmkiii.jpg
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 01:40:23 PM by Alker »

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2012, 01:41:30 PM »
Quote
Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

One other thing all D800 examples have gone thru Nikon NX while most canon examples are straight out the camera.

There are some raws from the Canon 5D Mark III
When process these with CS5 it looks much better, see here (did a fast conversion):

www.planepix.nl/5dmkiii.jpg

+1
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

TAR

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2012, 01:55:18 PM »
Quote
Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

One other thing all D800 examples have gone thru Nikon NX while most canon examples are straight out the camera.

There are some raws from the Canon 5D Mark III
When process these with CS5 it looks much better, see here (did a fast conversion):

www.planepix.nl/5dmkiii.jpg


there are plenty of D800 and D800E raw samples are available..even 25600 sample contains lots of details ..i processed with LR4 looks pretty good IMO

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2012, 01:55:18 PM »

V8Beast

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2012, 02:16:48 PM »
I much prefer the files too - they have a look that Nikon doesn't.

IMHO, this is the most subjective issue when judging IQ, but also the most important! When you present your images to a client or just a casual observer, they gauge its visual impact based on the overall "look" it conveys, a certain X-factor if you will, not some highly technical method used to calculate DR or noise.

I was reading some review of a crop Nikon body the other day (D7000?) about how its DR put Canon's full-frame bodies to shame in lab tests. This intrigued me, so I checked out some sample images. They weren't bad, but they looked flat and lifeless compared to what I'm accustomed to out of my antiquated 5DC. Sorry, but I'm not buying a camera based on what some lab tests say. I don't know if any tech specs exist that can gauge this sort of thing, but IMHO the film-like color, contrast, sharpness, and overall IQ of bodies like the 5DC, 5DII, and 1DsIII are why LOTS of working pros shoot Canon.

This isn't strictly a Canon vs. Nikon issue either. If lab tests are all that mattered, why would any Canon shooter opt for anything other than a 7D?  Doesn't it match the 5DII and 1DsIII in DR for a fraction of the cost? My hunch is that some people just prefer the look of the files produced by the costlier bodies.

Quote
The key point for me though is that Canon is a SYSTEM and not a BODY. People crush on bodies too much these days.

Werd. Let's say the D800 is as great as people are making it out to be, and the 5DIII is as bad as people suggest. Many people will just give credit where credit is due, concede that Nikon has won this round, and stick with Canon because it offers a better overall system.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:18:56 PM by V8Beast »

BobSanderson

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2012, 02:17:52 PM »
The 5D3 is much better at generating controversy within this community. Check out Nikon Rumors - there is nothing like this going on there. Why not?

V8Beast

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2012, 02:23:04 PM »
The 5D3 is much better at generating controversy within this community. Check out Nikon Rumors - there is nothing like this going on there. Why not?

Good question. I'd venture to say that it's because the Nikon product line was so bad just five years ago, that even if the D800 isn't the exact camera they wanted spec wise, they're thrilled to finally have an option that can compete with Canon. On the other had, since the digital revolution Canon has set the bar very high, and its users expect nothing less than greatness. It must be odd to see how much the competition has caught up, but personally, I love competition :)

dunkers

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2012, 02:27:56 PM »
Threads like this one are my source of morning entertainment when there is nothing to watch on TV or if I'm waiting for class  :D


I wonder what kinds of topics we'd see if the two bodied were priced at the same point.
And I'm curious to know what resolutuon D800 people will be using if they use it on trips and whatnot. To me, 36 is too much to use as a regular camera for day in day out/casual photography. More suited for just studio work imo.

I couldnt see myself lugging arounda megapixel monster when hanging around with friends. I dont want to downsize them eigher becauxe then id rather just geta crop body.  Plus downsizing the photos would involve editing, which leads to the tenptation to over-process my photos....something I am guiltyof from time to time :)

Now if my work was mainly studio, then id be more tempted to get the d800....
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Ivar

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2012, 02:46:37 PM »
Unfortunately I don't see how exactly it is better than a 5D2.

Quote
Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

One other thing all D800 examples have gone thru Nikon NX while most canon examples are straight out the camera.

There are some raws from the Canon 5D Mark III
When process these with CS5 it looks much better, see here (did a fast conversion):

www.planepix.nl/5dmkiii.jpg

+1

awinphoto

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2012, 02:55:53 PM »
Unfortunately I don't see how exactly it is better than a 5D2.

Quote
Real world samples are already out for everyone to see. D800 is clearly superior in detail and DR. 5Diii might have edge on the noise department, but the images just look flat, most likely due to excessive NR. Regardless, D800 is superior in that it provides much better detail and DR and comparable ISO performance.

One other thing all D800 examples have gone thru Nikon NX while most canon examples are straight out the camera.

There are some raws from the Canon 5D Mark III
When process these with CS5 it looks much better, see here (did a fast conversion):

www.planepix.nl/5dmkiii.jpg

+1

That's the beauty of it... =)  As a package as a whole, its a much better tool, can deliver so much more, in worse conditions, and take a bigger beating, and still produce as good if not better images... It's a great image overall... No one ever snubbed the 5d2 on image quality overall... 5d3 takes the camera as a whole to the next level.  No camera is going to make you instantaneously a better photographer out of the box as is... If it's not for you and you cant appreciate the camera for what it is...  too bad..
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2012, 02:55:53 PM »

Alker

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2012, 02:57:24 PM »
Quote
Unfortunately I don't see how exactly it is better than a 5D2.

Well for me it is.
I have always been happy with the image quality of the 5D Mark II.
Except for some things which they have fixed in the 5D Mark III

I  really don't care if the DR is 11 or 11.5 or whatever.
So yes I am happy with the Canon 5D mark III

It is very very simple.
If you don't like the 5D Mark III .........then don't buy it....
Like there are NO good pictures in the world left after Nikon has released a 36MP..... :( :(



jaduffy007

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2012, 03:27:06 PM »
The 5D3 is much better at generating controversy within this community. Check out Nikon Rumors - there is nothing like this going on there. Why not?

Good question. I'd venture to say that it's because the Nikon product line was so bad just five years ago, that even if the D800 isn't the exact camera they wanted spec wise, they're thrilled to finally have an option that can compete with Canon. On the other had, since the digital revolution Canon has set the bar very high, and its users expect nothing less than greatness. It must be odd to see how much the competition has caught up, but personally, I love competition :)


Good question indeed.  Canon, imo, has generally plateaued since 5d2..and to some degree before that.  In contrast Nikon has spiked upward dramatically.  Since the D3 / D300 launch, Nikon took the lead and has increased their position ever since.  Now, a major point in product cycles has revealed Nikon continuing to expand their leadership.  Maybe this is Nikon's peak and we're at the beginning of another cycle reversal, with the 5d4, etc leaping ahead in tech in 2014.  Maybe not.  It simply raises questions, especially when one looks at the quality of Sony sensors.

Bottom line: Only Canon koolaid drinkers can deny Nikon's overall tech leadership since the D3.  Yet, does it really matter?  I don't think so.  Again, it's just about bagging rights imo.  And that tide can reverse at any time.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 03:39:20 PM by jaduffy007 »

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Re: 5D Mk III vs D800/E, is the 5D3 better at anything?
« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2012, 03:27:06 PM »