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Author Topic: Canon is just stupid - 5D3s AutoISO still crappy - EMAIL THEM HOW IT SHOULD WORK  (Read 15157 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2012, 12:42:22 AM »
When the difference is two bytes of code...

A bit here, a byte there, and sure, why not just make the 5DIII a 1D X in a smaller form factor and charge half the price.  Hell, that 61 point AF should be in the next Rebel camera, and why not throw in a FF sensor, too. 

Here's how it works.  Canon makes design decisions, sometimes informed by customer needs/wants, sometimes independent of them.  Canon builds cameras and markets them.  A miniscule minority of people whine and prattle on about how this feature isn't what they wanted or that feature should have been implemented like this.  A vast, overwhelming majority of people buy what is, for all intents and purposes, an excellent camera with many significant improvements relative to it's predecessor.  Astoundingly enough, that overwhelming majority of buyers frequently includes many of the whiners, and most of that minority of complainers that didn't buy the camera had no intention of doing so in the first place.  Canon makes a profit.  The shareholders are happy.  Canon teams pat themselves on the back, and start designing the next body which will implement even more incremental improvements, and generate the unavoidable and practically meaningless whining the next time around, unless said malcontents have in the meantime gone over to Apple Discussions to bitch about the new iPad.

Aye, I agree, being able to set minimum aperture would be extremely handy when you need a thicker DOF. I'm curious...does ANY camera, ANY brand, do that?

Yes.  On the 1DIV and 1DsIII, C.Fn I-13 is "Set aperture value range" and allows you to specify a smallest value between f/91-1.4 and a largest value between f/1.0-64.  (<whine>damn canon sucks what if I need to set an f/stop range from f/76-91, but the smallest max aperture I can set is f/64 this feature is USELESS even though I didn't know it existed before reading this thread, but for sure I'm never buying that crippled 1-series body now</whine>). 

I presume the 1D X will have similar functionality. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 12:44:33 AM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2012, 12:42:22 AM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2012, 01:34:07 AM »
come on, other makers have had it in xxD and xxxD tiers for years already

if it something SO necessary to sell the 1DX then why do a few of the people in this thread not even know about the feature or how to use it at all, it's just Canon marketing going to utterly silly lengths

anyway, if we had worked up storm here, where Canon very well may monitor things a bit, maybe we'd get them to stop doin silly things like this. If there is any forum where making a ruckuss might help, it woul dbe this one.

will anybody get a 1DX just because of this or in any reasonable part because of this? I doubt it.
do competitors from basically ALL other brands allow this at all levels? yes
so why on earth does canon marketing decided to do something like this?

but anyway thanks to all of the over the top fan boys it's obviously useless to make the sort of ruckuss that might help us get any changes made, so whatever, bye, be glad that you successfully fought to make sure your camera didn't become more usable, congrats to all....



When the difference is two bytes of code...

A bit here, a byte there, and sure, why not just make the 5DIII a 1D X in a smaller form factor and charge half the price.  Hell, that 61 point AF should be in the next Rebel camera, and why not throw in a FF sensor, too. 

Here's how it works.  Canon makes design decisions, sometimes informed by customer needs/wants, sometimes independent of them.  Canon builds cameras and markets them.  A miniscule minority of people whine and prattle on about how this feature isn't what they wanted or that feature should have been implemented like this.  A vast, overwhelming majority of people buy what is, for all intents and purposes, an excellent camera with many significant improvements relative to it's predecessor.  Astoundingly enough, that overwhelming majority of buyers frequently includes many of the whiners, and most of that minority of complainers that didn't buy the camera had no intention of doing so in the first place.  Canon makes a profit.  The shareholders are happy.  Canon teams pat themselves on the back, and start designing the next body which will implement even more incremental improvements, and generate the unavoidable and practically meaningless whining the next time around, unless said malcontents have in the meantime gone over to Apple Discussions to bitch about the new iPad.

Aye, I agree, being able to set minimum aperture would be extremely handy when you need a thicker DOF. I'm curious...does ANY camera, ANY brand, do that?

Yes.  On the 1DIV and 1DsIII, C.Fn I-13 is "Set aperture value range" and allows you to specify a smallest value between f/91-1.4 and a largest value between f/1.0-64.  (<whine>damn canon sucks what if I need to set an f/stop range from f/76-91, but the smallest max aperture I can set is f/64 this feature is USELESS even though I didn't know it existed before reading this thread, but for sure I'm never buying that crippled 1-series body now</whine>). 

I presume the 1D X will have similar functionality.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 02:35:38 AM by LetTheRightLensIn »

briansquibb

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2012, 03:14:48 AM »
come on, other makers have had it in xxD and xxxD tiers for years already

if it something SO necessary to sell the 1DX then why do a few of the people in this thread not even know about the feature or how to use it at all, it's just Canon marketing going to utterly silly lengths


The 1 series is targeted for experienced and knowegable photographers who understand the parameters. Point and Shoot are there for those who want the camera to be fully automatic so the user just presses the shutter button. In between the cameras introduce increasingly more variable parameters until they get to the series 1.

The difficulty comes when the 1000D level user is under the impression that the gained knowlege is sufficient to
criticise Canon for leaving out features. Features which have been used by knowlegable photographers for years but not used in the auto fashion.

Like not using spot mode for following fast moving objects
Like using evaluative metering for fast moving objects
Like using auto iso for flash
Like using EC for manual mode

the list is endless

Nobody knows everything so we have to learn from others - this process is called education. As soon as you close your mind to education then you stop improving. This topic is new to most shooters so a certain amount of education is needed

What stick in my craw is that the pupils are abusing the educators.

Canon is NOT stupid ( THERE IS usable auto iso in 5D III)

briansquibb

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #78 on: March 16, 2012, 03:37:55 AM »
I'm not sure what your point is there.
???

In highly crippled fashion once again.
Unlike on the bodies, at all levels, from pretty much every other maker.
And it's a ridiculous aspect to cripple things over.
And it has nothing to do with easing someone up the ranks. It doesn't ease anything, for anyone to make it in this fashion.

(and lest you think I can't praise anything Canon, I actually praised the 24-70 II design quite a lot and that lens hasn't even gotten a lot of praise yet from what I've seen and on paper the 5D3 AF and video sound awesome)

So you think that experienced and knowlegable shooters who are experienced in using auto iso know less than you do when you have no significant experience or knowlege of auto iso?

So you praise the 24-70II and slam the 5DIII without getting hands on experience - based on something you have (mis)read about.


tt

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #79 on: March 16, 2012, 03:55:19 AM »
Popcorn! Popcorn! Come and buy your popcorn!

In a more serious note - how do photographers give feedback to Canon through legitimate channels?
Not sure which country the OP is in to pass on an official email.

Can you file a bug report to their OS team? A feature suggestion?

As a side note - is anyone up for a "I may have argued about the 5D Mark III/1DX but I've bought one now & here's an awesome picture I took with it thread" ?

briansquibb

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #80 on: March 16, 2012, 04:24:52 AM »
Stop arguing whether you need it or don't, no one cares, there are a lot of people who find it useful, if you don't you don't have to use it.

Fact is there are fast moving situations you want to shoot that might change from sunlight to shadow. And if you change ISO values you loose important moments. Sure you can just shoot everything with 6400 or higher to be on the save side. But its just damn convenient to have the camera user lower ISOs and faster times wich results in better quality if the light allows it.

And why not be angry about this feature? For me this would have been the main reason to upgrade from II to III. Because i shoot under those conditions a lot. And i thought they finally did it, then i read the manual and found that ridiculous limit for the shutter speed. As they said the II has Auto ISO i thought i can use it, and now 2 camera generations (7D was in between) later they still haven't figured it out

Using TV doesn't help either because you cant shoot everything with 2.8

And M, makes no sense at all Sure you could set your limit time, but in AV you could get faster if the light allows it. And in M, the camera has to use higher ISOs because 1/800 F4 just doesn't work in bright sunlight with ISO 200, and its not allowed to use faster times in M. So no gain in picture quality there.

Fact the camera is rubbish and useless in my opinion as a MII owner. And yes other people might like, want different features. Thats called freedom of thought.

As a 5D2 owner you wont have had the pleasure of using auto iso then ??? ??? ???

briansquibb

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2012, 05:56:59 AM »
Quote
@fanboys: no, one does NOT have to sell all Canon gear and buy Nikon, if Canon stuff sucks in one dimension but shines in others. It is much better to continually provide critical feedback to Canon ... so they may eventually improve theirn products. Especuially since Canon seems to have considerable difficulty to come up with meaningful improvements and to listen to its user base. So I thing, we got to repeat it more often ... and louder .. around the globe ... till its heard in Japan. :-)


That is true.
Better then this frustration on this board.

Quote
Canon seems to have considerable difficulty to come up with meaningful improvements and to listen to its user base

Well check all the forums and read where we asked for before the 5D mark iii was announced.
-no more MP
-better AF
-better water sealing
-dual cards
-more fps
-better high iso
-shorter shutter lag.
-etc.

Seems to me Canon listened.
Some people always complain no matter what.

+1
.... and they complain about things they know nothing about either. They have seized upon a 'major flaw' when in reality it is a non problem except in their own minds

Lets state this again just so it is clear:

@5DII owners - the auto ISO now works as it should on the 5DIII
@7D owners - auto ISO on the 5DIII has a few extra features over the 7D


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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #81 on: March 16, 2012, 05:56:59 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #82 on: March 16, 2012, 06:19:29 AM »
Lets state this again just so it is clear:
@5DII owners - the auto ISO now works as it should on the 5DIII
@7D owners - auto ISO on the 5DIII has a few extra features over the 7D

very true. BUT ...
* Canon improved the Auto-ISO just a freakin' little bit, going from "utterly useless" to "somewhat useful"
* Auto-ISO is a really cheap to implement software/firmware feature
* it is fully known, what AUto-ISO would need to look like to be "REALLY RIGHT"
* Nikon is offering a vastly superior solution in the D800, which is 500 € less expensive than the 5D III

If Canon would want or be forced to by its user base :-) ... they could implement a fully functional REALLY RIGHT Auto-ISO function as a firmware update for all current EOS models.

@those who don't understand or need or want Auto-ISO ... no problem, you don't ever have to use it. It will not ever get in your way or compromise your user experience in any possible way. :-)

Alker

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Quote
Nikon is offering a vastly superior solution in the D800, which is 500 € less expensive than the 5D III

Yes yes yes yes we know.
I have to stop visiting these forums.
Not good for my blood pressure.

So last post for me.
I know who cares !!

And please enjoy Photography.
And stop this SAGA about nothing.

Bye all.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #84 on: March 16, 2012, 07:01:05 AM »
* it is fully known, what AUto-ISO would need to look like to be "REALLY RIGHT"

To you.  To me, the 5DIII implementation looks just perfect, thank you very much.
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CanineCandidsByL

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I was chatting with a friend, who has nearly opposite camera needs, about this. We both agreed that just because one of us don't need a feature, doesn't mean the other should argue against the technology (unless there is a better way to do the same thing). Without this agreement, we probably couldn't talk cameras and stay friends.

But....
then we looked at our "perfect camera" with every option we would both love. The camera and its menus would be a monster. The only way to deal with it is to either allow heavy UI customization or at least have "modes of use" which would allow/disallow features. The modes-of-use idea seemed too much like programmed modes, even if they are fully manual. The UI customization seemed great, but no vendor is doing much with that.

Unless someone enters the marked as primarily a hardware vendor and lets people modify the software, I don't thing we'll ever be completely happy. Maybe not even then.

iso79

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #86 on: March 16, 2012, 08:13:27 AM »
You should give up photography if you use auto-iso.

the funny thing is the people who come out with the comments like that are the ones who usually turn out to have much less experience shooting

Yep, we have less experience because we understand exposure and use manual controls 100% of the time  ;D
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2012, 08:27:06 AM »
* it is fully known, what AUto-ISO would need to look like to be "REALLY RIGHT"

To you.  To me, the 5DIII implementation looks just perfect, thank you very much.

+1  Amen!  Works for me too!  Exactly what I was missing in my 5D mkII.
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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #87 on: March 16, 2012, 08:27:06 AM »

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Re: Canon is just stupid (still no usable auto iso in 5D III)
« Reply #88 on: March 16, 2012, 08:27:57 AM »

And M, makes no sense at all Sure you could set your limit time, but in AV you could get faster if the light allows it. And in M, the camera has to use higher ISOs because 1/800 F4 just doesn't work in bright sunlight with ISO 200, and its not allowed to use faster times in M. So no gain in picture quality there.


"If the light allows it", then presumably the only 'limitation' is if the light is changing frequently - point taken, but as I read it, in M mode, there are no shutter speed limits, so I STILL only see this as a problem for P mode and Av mode, which requires us to use our judgement in M mode.  Ideal no, but certainly not 'crippling'.
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neuroanatomist

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Who cares? That not what it is about.

True. Instead, it seems to be about complaining about a particular feature that's already added/improved, just not sufficient for some people's needs/desires, and doing so in an irrelevant place, for pages on end.  But then, that's why these forums are here - an outlet for our personal frustrations. So...let the complaining continue.....   ::)
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