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Author Topic: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF  (Read 38660 times)

Daniel Flather

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2012, 11:30:14 AM »

My other favorite features are pushing the "SET" button and the finger dial to adjust ISO directly in the viewfinder...


What?  I can't seem to achieve this, explain.  Are you truing the quick control dial, or the main dial?
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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2012, 11:30:14 AM »

shizam1

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2012, 11:44:34 AM »
I'm honestly surprised to hear this.  I even find my 5d2 doesn't struggle like you're suggesting and I shoot some very low light venues (ISO3200, 160th, f1.6).

What I may find is that the 5d2 doesn't achieve CRITICAL focus, but it's only a tiny bit out and it hardly ever hunts and is pretty quick.

Hope you get it sorted.

Yeah, I've shot lot's of low light stuff before, and maybe this was more challenging/darker than I recollect...  Hopefully I can squeeze better AF performance out of the 5DIII by going back to single spot AF like I used to do with the 5DII

rlarsen

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2012, 11:45:30 AM »
Single point without expansion will be fine as long as that point is directed at something with a little texture.
I'm curious to learn, how with the NEW system, expansion choices etc. effect AF speed.

I recall having trouble with my older cameras shooting night football. If the sensor was on a jersery between the number and the waist band, the solid color was a bitch to track. Often I would sacrifice composition to place the sensor on texture and contrast. The new 1-DX will also track color and faces.......for an extra $3500

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april

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2012, 11:46:26 AM »
Rudy Winston, a good guy and tech expert from Canon, has an online series describing the new 5D /  1DX AF system.

It is a good article.  But nowhere does it say to stick to "single point AF" if you want fast AF.  So unfortunately it's one of those things people need to learn and then share that knowledge.  I wish it had been documented, because I would have used it last night and would have gotten more keepers from the reception.

if we had to use single point AF for the camera to focus properly to achieve a sharp image, then what's the point of putting  61 pt. AF when it will be useless other than a maketing strategy. As far as I understood, those points when selected will be the basis of the camera to focus on regardless of other settings. What's the point of having zones or expansion points if focus cannot be achieved? Does this mean we will need to use the 61 points individually?

rlarsen

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2012, 11:50:14 AM »
This was helpful to me, and I will use some of the suggestions.
http://www.atrero.com/articles/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-af-settings/

pdirestajr

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2012, 11:57:09 AM »
The original poster mentioned the focus was on "one shot" doesn't that mean if the subject moved at all (or the photographer), the focus point would be off- since it doesn't sound like it was in servo? Especially at wide open apertures where DOF is super shallow.

I only have a 7D, but I find I nail focus on 90% of my shots when I have it in servo as opposed to one shot. Unless it is a still photo obviously.

And also 1/60 shutter speed is a little on the slower side for moving people no? Seems like natural motion could create blur here.

I've never shot a wedding or used a 5D, so this is just me guessing based on my experience with AF and what the OP initially said.
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PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2012, 12:05:43 PM »
The original poster mentioned the focus was on "one shot" doesn't that mean if the subject moved at all (or the photographer), the focus point would be off- since it doesn't sound like it was in servo? Especially at wide open apertures where DOF is super shallow.

I only have a 7D, but I find I nail focus on 90% of my shots when I have it in servo as opposed to one shot. Unless it is a still photo obviously.

And also 1/60 shutter speed is a little on the slower side for moving people no? Seems like natural motion could create blur here.

I've never shot a wedding or used a 5D, so this is just me guessing based on my experience with AF and what the OP initially said.

You shouldn't be shooting in servo unless the subject is moving - it won't actually LOCK focus at any point.

I certainly would never do this and speaking to Canon they also don't recommend it.

The ideal situation would be to place an AF point over the persons eye and use one shot... :)

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2012, 12:05:43 PM »

shizam1

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2012, 12:11:58 PM »
if we had to use single point AF for the camera to focus properly to achieve a sharp image, then what's the point of putting  61 pt. AF when it will be useless other than a maketing strategy. As far as I understood, those points when selected will be the basis of the camera to focus on regardless of other settings. What's the point of having zones or expansion points if focus cannot be achieved? Does this mean we will need to use the 61 points individually?

Well, more points could help you to avoid "focus and recompose".  The problem with the 5DII focus points, is there weren't many and they were all clustered around the center of the VF.  And more focus points could help with bright situations when using AI Servo with moving targets.  It just depends on what you are shooting, and what AF mode you need to be in.  For weddings, I normally use "one shot" drive mode, and might only switch to "AI-Servo" when bride is walking down aisle and that sort of thing.

Bosman

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2012, 12:12:04 PM »
One thing i'd like to know is this, in dark situations is having outter points on hindering the speed. Although i havent shot a reception as of yet and havent tested this out i prob wouldn't use the focus assist points in low light. From my testing my 5dm3 is a monster in dark lit areas and locks on focus pretty nicely. I can only expect it would be the same in any situation. What F stop were you using it lloks like all your lenses are low light monsters. You may need to look into calibrating it to your body. My 50 F1.2 focussed pretty dang well outta the box but i spent a lot of time and got my testing device out and decided to go with +5 for it. At f1.2 its pretty difficult to calibrate since the 85 1.2 and the 50 1.2 are difficult beasts to work with but when you get the shot forget about any other lens.
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Bosman

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2012, 12:21:51 PM »
Man if those are the results you got you really need to play with the settings.  I shot all weekend and was blown away by how many shots were in focus, it was like I couldn't miss.  And this was shooting fast moving subjects on AI Servo.  I just use Spot AF, all the expansion and auto selection is unchecked.  But seriously, I don't think I'll ever be able to use my Mark II again it sucks so bad compared to the III, so it must be your settings.  I use the same lenses as you do for the most part.
Spot af in servo, i am surprised that wasn't a problem. Im pretty sure i read in the manual that moving subjects are best to not be using spot af point on because it is such a refined focus. Its def cool if it still worked but maybe they mean more like runners or sports its not a good setting and maybe with weddings people aren't moving too fast so its not a problem then...Cool to know though.
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Also as a side note I can say without any doubt in my mind this is absolutely true in using fast primes, shooting in servo is a bad bad idea no matter what camera. I have tested it out on both my 1dm3, my 5d and now my 5dm3 and talk about a lens hunting, it was constantly moving in and out. Flip it to single shot and BAM it locks on focus. Literally if people knew this fact alone while working with fast primes, their keeper rate would be transformed!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 12:33:57 PM by Bosman »
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Tim Larsen

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2012, 12:57:24 PM »

My other favorite features are pushing the "SET" button and the finger dial to adjust ISO directly in the viewfinder...


What?  I can't seem to achieve this, explain.  Are you truing the quick control dial, or the main dial?

Go to Custom Functions (the Camera with vertical lines underneath), go down to "Custom Control" and go to the "Set" button and change it to "ISO".


Tim Larsen

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2012, 12:59:22 PM »
Another setting that I use is the AF is only tied to the "AF-ON" button and not the shutter button.  This too is under the Custom Function settings.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2012, 01:07:51 PM »
if we had to use single point AF for the camera to focus properly to achieve a sharp image, then what's the point of putting  61 pt. AF when it will be useless other than a maketing strategy. As far as I understood, those points when selected will be the basis of the camera to focus on regardless of other settings. What's the point of having zones or expansion points if focus cannot be achieved? Does this mean we will need to use the 61 points individually?

Well, more points could help you to avoid "focus and recompose".  The problem with the 5DII focus points, is there weren't many and they were all clustered around the center of the VF.  And more focus points could help with bright situations when using AI Servo with moving targets.  It just depends on what you are shooting, and what AF mode you need to be in.  For weddings, I normally use "one shot" drive mode, and might only switch to "AI-Servo" when bride is walking down aisle and that sort of thing.

How does using assists help you not to do focus and recompose? It's actually FORCING that to happen at times.
If you are shooting fast lenses, wide open, close in, I'd think it might make more trouble, since it has a larger area over which to decided to toss the focus on and it might say make the eyes end up OOF I'd think.
It seems like a weird choice to use expansion points for the type of shooting you were doing, although I could be wrong no having been there.

That said, it sounds pretty worrisome, since that is what you would do for shooting sports at night and 2-3 seconds would make it ridiculously bad for shooting sports under poor lighting. I hope that is not the case.

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2012, 01:07:51 PM »

Tracy Pinto

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2012, 01:10:40 PM »
I have found the AF on this camera to be a pleasure. It is fast and accurate.

 I would not recommend practicing on paying customers.

Bosman

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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2012, 01:16:19 PM »
if we had to use single point AF for the camera to focus properly to achieve a sharp image, then what's the point of putting  61 pt. AF when it will be useless other than a maketing strategy. As far as I understood, those points when selected will be the basis of the camera to focus on regardless of other settings. What's the point of having zones or expansion points if focus cannot be achieved? Does this mean we will need to use the 61 points individually?

Well, more points could help you to avoid "focus and recompose".  The problem with the 5DII focus points, is there weren't many and they were all clustered around the center of the VF.  And more focus points could help with bright situations when using AI Servo with moving targets.  It just depends on what you are shooting, and what AF mode you need to be in.  For weddings, I normally use "one shot" drive mode, and might only switch to "AI-Servo" when bride is walking down aisle and that sort of thing.

How does using assists help you not to do focus and recompose? It's actually FORCING that to happen at times.
If you are shooting fast lenses, wide open, close in, I'd think it might make more trouble, since it has a larger area over which to decided to toss the focus on and it might say make the eyes end up OOF I'd think.
It seems like a weird choice to use expansion points for the type of shooting you were doing, although I could be wrong no having been there.

That said, it sounds pretty worrisome, since that is what you would do for shooting sports at night and 2-3 seconds would make it ridiculously bad for shooting sports under poor lighting. I hope that is not the case.
What you need to realize about this is the lenses used. We are talking about lenses people love and hate due to its refined focus in the barrel of the lens and the glass it needs to move, the 85 1.2 (I used to have), and the 50 1.2, (I now have) are tricky to work with and move slower than normal glass and the dof is rediculous, but the rewards are excellent. I dont think the 70-200 will be an issue in fact in my testing it is fast and dead on. All that said i havent used assist points yet im sure it will be excellent coming from a 1dx system. I will use assist when i shoot a race coming up and see how it fairs with the 70-200 II. I have always preferred single point however. I will never use spot af for sports, it won't be good! I will use spot Af for static subjects.
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Re: Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2012, 01:16:19 PM »