December 07, 2016, 11:25:55 AM

Author Topic: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda  (Read 37274 times)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2012, 03:18:12 PM »
It depends what you mean, as a old photographer I work in Raw and adjust and work with  my pictures  (lighten up shadows, etc.) as in the  lab years ago.
Depending on the subject and how you expose - you can work much better  with an image that has been reproduced with a high dynamic range.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=41393266



I guess as a very old photographer I am used to getting the light right in the camera so lab work is at the very minimum - like Cartier Bresson.

High Dynamic Range is something that never worries me in terms of pushing it. It must be the way that I spray light around so the dark spots get a tickle of flash to help it along

Example today. Straight out of the camera - just resized only

First with no flash
Second with 580EX @1/64


« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 03:20:23 PM by briansquibb »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #90 on: May 02, 2012, 03:18:12 PM »

V8Beast

  • 5DSR
  • *******
  • Posts: 1121
    • Stephen Kim Automotive Photography
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #91 on: May 02, 2012, 03:47:36 PM »
I'm starting to wonder why the burn tool even exists on Photoshop. Aren't there some situations where you'd want less shadow detail :)?

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #92 on: May 02, 2012, 03:51:46 PM »
Im more an Ansel Adams  type  .  And getting it right in the camera ? which camera? which profile  etc etc etc
Sorry there are no getting it right in the camera, and  have  images that some Japanese programmers believe that the picture should look like is nothing for me.

I see the picture before I take it - so yes I do get it right in the camera, at most it takes minor adjustments - nothing like pushing 3ev, I reckon to get levels all within 1 stop otherwise it is a bad picture. Nothing to do with Japanese programmers as I dont use P mode. On the 1D4 the pseudo manual mode with auto iso and ec gives me and even higher sucess rate

Only thing I dont see is detail in the background so my biggest pp is with the clone/healing tools.

I am always astonished at just how many people reply on pp for quite major localised adjustments when a simple use of flash gets round all the issues and improves the IQ. I rarely use anything above iso400 with the majority at 100/200 so noise doesn't raise its visible head.

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #93 on: May 02, 2012, 03:57:06 PM »
I'm starting to wonder why the burn tool even exists on Photoshop. Aren't there some situations where you'd want less shadow detail :)?

Yes turn a tickle on the rest of the image and the shadow detail drops off - very effective with bg blur as well - like this with a little on the subject de-details the wood on the building - just an example from today - not meant as a gallery picture

Just a single flash with a stophen on manual setting from PW



« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 03:59:19 PM by briansquibb »

LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4753
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #94 on: May 02, 2012, 06:38:18 PM »

Yeah but that sort of commercial shooting is but only one small segment of photography. That is not my circle at all.


Trust me, I haven't mistaken you for a high-end commercial photog :) I merely used them as an example because they're about as high up the ladder as you can get in terms of skill, budget and caliber of equipment, but even at that level, if they have the option to optimize their lighting instead of relying on a camera's DR, they'll go with optimizing their lighting every single time. They'll resort to very elaborate and costly methods to achieve that lighting as well. Mind you, these guys very often shoot medium format, which is obviously junk now after the D800's release, but it used to offer what was once considered pretty darn good DR and IQ.

If some of the most skilled, well-equipped, and experienced photogs on earth choose to optimize their lighting instead of relying solely on their camera's DR, why should lesser photogs (which is just about everyone, myself included) be beyond this? Technology is a beautiful thing, but it's something that should complement technique, not replace it. People that think that they can't produce good images with the DR offered by Canon's current sensors probably haven't quite yet honed their technique.

Of course if you have limited to no control of your lighting, then none of this applies and I'll STFU :)

Yeah your last sentence comes to the point. Only a small subset of shoots are amenable to that sort of carefully rigged lighting that you refer to in the first paragraph. In your world the first paragraph may feel like it covers 90% of photography but to someone in another world it may seem like that covers only 1% of photography. :D


LetTheRightLensIn

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4753
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #95 on: May 02, 2012, 06:40:54 PM »
I'm starting to wonder why the burn tool even exists on Photoshop. Aren't there some situations where you'd want less shadow detail :)?

hah, i sometimes use it to tame hotspots that draw too much attention and the like, occasionally to darken up some dark area of garbage that is better sunken to depths or to make something brighter pop out more, etc.

V8Beast

  • 5DSR
  • *******
  • Posts: 1121
    • Stephen Kim Automotive Photography
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #96 on: May 02, 2012, 07:56:29 PM »
Yeah your last sentence comes to the point. Only a small subset of shoots are amenable to that sort of carefully rigged lighting that you refer to in the first paragraph. In your world the first paragraph may feel like it covers 90% of photography but to someone in another world it may seem like that covers only 1% of photography. :D

I wish it covered 90% of my shooting, since it would mean someone would be willing to pay me enough to take the time rig up some crazy lighting arrangement. Not sure if I'd have the patience for that sort of thing, and I definitely don't have the talent :)

That said, there's a lot in between what's used in the world of commercial photography and a run-and-gun photography where it's not practical to haul around a bunch of gear. As brian's samples illustrate, balancing ambient light and flash with a couple of Speedlights can go a long way. Light is also more portable and flexible than ever with the advent of affordable radio triggers and pop-up-out-of-a-bag softboxes. Combine all that with the high-ISO abilities of modern bodies, and you can get a lot of light out of a few small flash guns.

....but I digress, since the subject at hand is landscape photography, and none of this matters :)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #96 on: May 02, 2012, 07:56:29 PM »

DavidRiesenberg

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 330
    • David Riesenberg
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #97 on: May 03, 2012, 02:12:54 AM »
....but I digress, since the subject at hand is landscape photography, and none of this matters :)

 :)

Well, philosophically speaking, the sun is the most badass flashgun there is...or rather hot light. And while we might not be able to tame him, at least we know where he'll be each day.

PhilDrinkwater

  • Guest
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #98 on: May 03, 2012, 04:33:46 AM »
I guess as a very old photographer I am used to getting the light right in the camera so lab work is at the very minimum - like Cartier Bresson.

High Dynamic Range is something that never worries me in terms of pushing it. It must be the way that I spray light around so the dark spots get a tickle of flash to help it along

This is often presented as a panacea of photography, but in fact it's not, even when taking the example of people and not a massive cliff for a landscape photographer or a bird or something, which are much more difficult to light.

Once I started looking at the intricacies of lighting and how it affects the face, skin, eyes and so on, I realised that some things can only be done with natural light. For example, I know a wedding photographer who uses fill flash extensively. He sent me a photo that he loved and the first thing that I noticed was the incredible forward facing shine on the makeup which wouldn't have been there without the flash. I also noticed the pin light in the otherwise dark eyes. Neither looked attractive to my eyes.

If you want to really get it "right" a large (very large) light source is needed and you need to block out the available light as much as possible and relight from scratch. If you're doing fill light, you need to be exact about the colour temperature of the light source or you can just tell the extra light is there. Or at least I can.

This was shot with a large light source to camera left, balanced for the ambient. Since the flash was the key light, I could get away with some of the things that I note above:

P.S this wasn't the final version of this file - it was done before LR4 and I overbrushed one or two areas. It's just the only one I have available to link.

In the cases where you don't have the option to setup a massive lighting rig, pushing the shadows might give a more pleasing (to my eye) shot than using some fill flash. That's why I say adding fill light is not the panacea it's presented as in my eyes...

Of course, this is entirely a personal opinion :)
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 08:18:27 AM by PhilDrinkwater »

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #99 on: May 03, 2012, 12:54:49 PM »

In the cases where you don't have the option to setup a massive lighting rig, pushing the shadows might give a more pleasing (to my eye) shot than using some fill flash. That's why I say adding fill light is not the panacea it's presented as in my eyes...

Of course, this is entirely a personal opinion :)

The hardest thing is to use a very small amount of flash. I have 6 x 580 flash so a lot of power is there - but often I am usually infilling with 1/64 power with several flash just give a subtle lift.

I use a 430EXII for the onboard flash for the catchlights

V8Beast

  • 5DSR
  • *******
  • Posts: 1121
    • Stephen Kim Automotive Photography
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #100 on: May 03, 2012, 04:14:56 PM »
....but I digress, since the subject at hand is landscape photography, and none of this matters :)

 :)

Well, philosophically speaking, the sun is the most badass flashgun there is...or rather hot light. And while we might not be able to tame him, at least we know where he'll be each day.

I take it you don't live in Seattle ;D?

I like the sun as a light source, but only for 2-3 hours a day :)

sarangiman

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 375
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #101 on: May 03, 2012, 05:24:55 PM »
V8Beast-- you live in Seattle? We should grab a coffee some time :)

Perhaps you'll appreciate this shot from Rizal Bridge I took back in 2010. I went to this stop some 30 times before I finally got an epic sunset. The colors lasted for like 30 minutes... it was insane. Used a 3-stop Daryl Benson Reverse GND filter, & still merged 4 exposures by hand in Photoshop, & still have noise in the trees when I print this. When I denoise the shadows, they just turn muddy. So in the end I chose to just stick with the noise. There's even a little banding in those shadows (this was shot on a 5D). This might be why I'm so interested in higher DR given that, like I said, this was already 4 exposures merged, each taken with that 3-stop Reverse GND...


Cptn Rigo

  • Rebel T6i
  • ****
  • Posts: 110
    • rodrigomarta.com
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2012, 06:28:00 PM »
V8Beast-- you live in Seattle? We should grab a coffee some time :)

Perhaps you'll appreciate this shot from Rizal Bridge I took back in 2010. I went to this stop some 30 times before I finally got an epic sunset. The colors lasted for like 30 minutes... it was insane. Used a 3-stop Daryl Benson Reverse GND filter, & still merged 4 exposures by hand in Photoshop, & still have noise in the trees when I print this. When I denoise the shadows, they just turn muddy. So in the end I chose to just stick with the noise. There's even a little banding in those shadows (this was shot on a 5D). This might be why I'm so interested in higher DR given that, like I said, this was already 4 exposures merged, each taken with that 3-stop Reverse GND...



Nice pic man!  :)
5D MkIII + 35L, 85L, 135L, 70-300L, 24-70L II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #102 on: May 03, 2012, 06:28:00 PM »

V8Beast

  • 5DSR
  • *******
  • Posts: 1121
    • Stephen Kim Automotive Photography
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #103 on: May 03, 2012, 09:27:33 PM »
V8Beast-- you live in Seattle? We should grab a coffee some time :)

Nah, I was just being a smart@ss since the other poster mentioned that the sun is the ultimate flash gun :) Here in Texas, we get too much sun and it's already in the mid-90s! I need weather sealing to protect my cameras from my sweat, and unfortunately, that's not an exaggeration. I lived in Vancouver, WA briefly as a kid, but don't remember anything about it. The Pacific Northwest does look beautiful, though.

Quote
Perhaps you'll appreciate this shot from Rizal Bridge I took back in 2010. I went to this stop some 30 times before I finally got an epic sunset. The colors lasted for like 30 minutes... it was insane. Used a 3-stop Daryl Benson Reverse GND filter, & still merged 4 exposures by hand in Photoshop, & still have noise in the trees when I print this. When I denoise the shadows, they just turn muddy. So in the end I chose to just stick with the noise. There's even a little banding in those shadows (this was shot on a 5D). This might be why I'm so interested in higher DR given that, like I said, this was already 4 exposures merged, each taken with that 3-stop Reverse GND...


I don't need to live in Seattle to appreciate that shot. It's a great image, and it's definitely shot in a situation that could definitely benefit from more DR. Nice work! Even if you printed this one pretty big, I don't think the noise in the trees would be offensive.

skitron

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #104 on: May 04, 2012, 11:50:07 AM »
Here in Texas, we get too much sun and it's already in the mid-90s! I need weather sealing to protect my cameras from my sweat, and unfortunately, that's not an exaggeration.

LOL, as a fellow Texan I can relate...and I even have more concern about the corrosive effect of all the salt in the sweat.
5D3, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 100L, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4 DG, Rokinon 14mm Canon TC 1.4x III

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 5D MK3 vs. D800 - fredmiranda
« Reply #104 on: May 04, 2012, 11:50:07 AM »