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Author Topic: will canon make more pancakes?  (Read 6040 times)

wickidwombat

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will canon make more pancakes?
« on: June 11, 2012, 10:01:45 PM »
there seems to be a fair bit of interest in the shorty 40 (love that name!)

so will this be the start of a series of pancakes? I'd be pretty interested in a 20 or 21mm f2.8 pancake of similar design and price
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will canon make more pancakes?
« on: June 11, 2012, 10:01:45 PM »

itsnotmeyouknow

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2012, 05:56:52 AM »
Is any other company making a series of pancakes other than the base 40mm FF equivalent FoV ones?

No. Those 20mm 21mm pancakes are for M4/3 system, which will be equivalent to 40mm on FF. Anything longer/wider would not be possible since the 40mm "normal" lens is the simplest.

I'm normally quite stupid in regard to technical things, but doesn't matter what system it is a 20mm lens is a 20 mm lens.  Makes no difference how the sensor sees it, so the physics are the same. Could be wrong, but just my punt.

moreorless

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 07:15:45 AM »
Is any other company making a series of pancakes other than the base 40mm FF equivalent FoV ones?

No. Those 20mm 21mm pancakes are for M4/3 system, which will be equivalent to 40mm on FF. Anything longer/wider would not be possible since the 40mm "normal" lens is the simplest.

Pentax? the current 21mm and 70mm limated primes are I'd say small enough to be called pancakes and the 15mm isnt far off.

With Canon going mirrorless though I'm guessing if we see many more pancakes it'll be on a new mount for those cameras.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2012, 07:17:29 AM by moreorless »

wickidwombat

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 07:56:58 PM »
Is any other company making a series of pancakes other than the base 40mm FF equivalent FoV ones?

No. Those 20mm 21mm pancakes are for M4/3 system, which will be equivalent to 40mm on FF. Anything longer/wider would not be possible since the 40mm "normal" lens is the simplest.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Voigtlander-COLOR-SKOPAR-20mm-F3-5-SL-II-Canon-/230760887096?pt=AU_Lenses&hash=item35ba6bb338
I thought this looked pretty pancakey maybe its more of a pikelet
Sorry I'm off to get my eyes checked now
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wickidwombat

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2012, 06:51:10 PM »
you are correct

I still think a 20mm pancake would be cool though :P
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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 05:31:00 AM »
The Voightlander 20mm is a pancake lens, they also have a 40mm (why is that a popular pancake?) and a small 90mm short tele. I've got the 20mm pancake coming in today, looking forward to it.

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 01:04:36 PM »
I'm going to go directly to my 24-70 and tell it it cannot play with my 7D any longer. Bad lens, you're in time out.

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 01:04:36 PM »

dr croubie

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 10:23:14 PM »
I'm normally quite stupid in regard to technical things, but doesn't matter what system it is a 20mm lens is a 20 mm lens.  Makes no difference how the sensor sees it, so the physics are the same. Could be wrong, but just my punt.

Yesno.
Flange distance (mount to sensor) on a canon is 44mm (45.46 on pentax, 46.5 on nikon). So the 'easiest' lenses to design are in this ballpark, and why most pancakes are 35-50mm or so for dslrs (lots around 40mm, just shorter than the flange distance).
Longer Fmm than this and it becomes more and more telephoto (light-ray bending) to get the lens more pancaked. Shorter Fmm than this and you need to design more as retrofocus or reverse-tele (and the lens also gets longer).

4/3-mount is 38.67mm, so pancakes make most sense around 30-40mm.
Micro-4/3-mount is 19.25, so pancakes are easiest to design (and thinnest) at the 15-20mm length.
Because they both use the same 2x crop factor, a 4/3 pancake will be 60-80mm FF-equivalent-FOV, a m4/3 pancake will be 30-40mm FF-eFOV.
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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 12:36:28 AM »
I would like to see a 30mm f 2.8 EF-S mount from Canon. That will make a lot APS-C user happy.

dilbert

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 11:23:11 AM »
Yes. I think they'll be the way Canon breathes new life into the affordable lens market.

In addition, if Canon comes out with a mirrorless solution, then they're going to be a whole lot more desirable to use there than the traditional big chunks of EF glass.

For example, if the 40mm will be a standard lens (50mm-80mm) on the mirrorless sensor then we can hopefully expect another prime pancacke lens under 20mm and that would be very interesting...

mb66energy

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 01:17:59 PM »
Is any other company making a series of pancakes other than the base 40mm FF equivalent FoV ones?

No. Those 20mm 21mm pancakes are for M4/3 system, which will be equivalent to 40mm on FF. Anything longer/wider would not be possible since the 40mm "normal" lens is the simplest.

I'm normally quite stupid in regard to technical things, but doesn't matter what system it is a 20mm lens is a 20 mm lens.  Makes no difference how the sensor sees it, so the physics are the same. Could be wrong, but just my punt.

As BozillaNZ explained - a 20mm lens for FF needs to manage a larger angle for the light rays to fill out the sensor area. And I come to the same conclusion: If they will offer a 20mm EF pancake it will have F/4 but ... who cares? I think it depends on the qualities the lens has. If it is sth. like a 6 group 9 lens design with optimized coatings and one or two aspherical elements it might deliver optimum quality straight from F/4 and will be capable to manage harsh contralight situations. 20mm @ FF means that there is a good chance to have light sources within the frame - a low number of glass-air boundaries helps a lot to maximize contrast.

I think it is a great development that older lens designs (like the double gaussian for the 40mm pancake) are "polished" by Canon with modern technologies (aspherical lens for the 40mm pancake) and stay conservative in terms of max aperture.

My next dream lens: A very short 200mm F/4 with IS would be welcome - lets say 100mm length + 400 g + sturdy magnesium alloy construction. Not a pancake but really attractive!

After Canon fulfilled my dream about a 40mm pancake  ...  to fill the gap in my signature  ...  there is some hope for other surprises!
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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2012, 04:33:08 PM »
Perhaps, canon would require an outside company like hungry jack or pills bury to develop the very best pancakes!

crasher8

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 11:35:41 AM »
What would make more sense for a competitor to the Sigma 30? An EF or EF-s Canon lens?

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2012, 11:35:41 AM »

Random Orbits

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2012, 12:14:53 PM »
What would make more sense for a competitor to the Sigma 30? An EF or EF-s Canon lens?


A fast EF-S.  For EF, the 35L is close in focal length and is already an excellent lens.

crasher8

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 12:24:57 PM »
What would make more sense for a competitor to the Sigma 30? An EF or EF-s Canon lens?


A fast EF-S.  For EF, the 35L is close in focal length and is already an excellent lens.

Yes but a competitor on price as well.

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Re: will canon make more pancakes?
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2012, 12:24:57 PM »