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Author Topic: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?  (Read 51847 times)

Aputure

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2010, 03:18:39 PM »
Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.

Fully agreed.

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2010, 03:18:39 PM »

MadButcher

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2010, 03:21:14 PM »
As I can see: the wheel on the back is divided into two, the inner circle around the set-button is the 'joystick'.

Justin

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2010, 03:27:13 PM »
Does it look like there is a button that can be depressed in the middle of the mode dial?

jfretless

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #48 on: August 11, 2010, 03:28:20 PM »
Doesn't the the guy's thumbnail look a little too perfect?  A model's manicured hands perhaps?

I say the images were leaked on purpose.

Just saying...

pgabor

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2010, 03:30:46 PM »
The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
No - wait - there's no direct print button!
Is this the one that you desperately are looking for?

Bottom right looks like a direct print button. But I can't find a delete button anywhere. Also, I wonder what's going on with the top left button? Looks like the joystick has been replaced by a 4 way controller around the set button also?

The upper left button (under on-off switch) is the delete button, and around the set button theres a 8 way controller. (on the first pic you can see the bumps)

ELK

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2010, 03:33:20 PM »
The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
No - wait - there's no direct print button!
Is this the one that you desperately are looking for?

Bottom right looks like a direct print button. But I can't find a delete button anywhere. Also, I wonder what's going on with the top left button? Looks like the joystick has been replaced by a 4 way controller around the set button also?

Delete button is on the left above the screen, it's partially visible on first picture.

MadButcher

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2010, 03:37:40 PM »
and around the set button theres a 8 way controller. (on the first pic you can see the bumps)

I saw it allready, it's quit clear.

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2010, 03:37:40 PM »

Mark D5 TEAM II

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2010, 03:45:29 PM »
Also, based on the airplane pic on the LCD monitor, it looks like it would have the same 3:2 720x480 1.04Mpixel resolution as that on the 550D, since the info overlay is directly on the image itself, not in a black bar above and below the image like in the usual 4:3 640x480 LCDs used for the rest of the lineup.



Add'l info from the DPR forum:

Quote
The lack of buttons maybe because it has a touch screen because Canon applied for a patent that covers a touch screen facility on DSLR cameras (reported in the January - March 2010 EOS Magazine). The touch screen apparently is not just for navigation, but will also allow the user to adjust settings - a vertical swipe to change the aperture values and horizontal swipe to adjust shutter speed. Other functions, including metering mode, drive, ISO value, autofocus, white balance and exposure compensation will also be adjustable via gesture controls.

Also reported in the April - June 2010 EOS Magazine Canon applied for a patent for a revolutionary viewfinder system which displays both an optical and an electronic viewfinder. It means that photographers can look through the optical viewfinder and see two screens; one which displays through the lens and another which is a small electronic viewfinder that is used for image review. It would mean that photographers would no longer have to take the camera away from their eye to view the image on the LCD monitor. This would be useful for sports and news photographers who need to stay ready for the next shot.
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gkreis

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2010, 04:25:27 PM »
Wrong. This idea doesn't take into account the inherent noise in the technology.

Right, not wrong.

I think both my physics degree and 10 years of experience in semiconductor production do help me having a clear understanding what goes on in a solid-state imaging sensor and signal processing in general.

Resizing a 18MP image to 10 MP using a decent algorithm is not very much different to using a 10MP sensor with larger pixels in terms of signal processing. After all it's always about integrating photon impact over time and position - it doesn't matter so much if it's done in the hard or the software.

Well you have me beat in credentials. But I can't understand how this can be true. Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled?  I think we would both agree not.  So where is the sweet spot?

You can find equally qualified individuals that say the opposite. So how are those of us on the fringe to figure this out?  I see some sites where the sample photos show the 7D is equal to earlier APS-C models, if not better.  Then I see others that show in their samples just the opposite.

The only reason I care is that I can't afford to be buying $1200 or $1600 cameras to test them.



gkreis

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2010, 04:32:10 PM »
Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.

Fully agreed.

I leave my  power switch turned on except when I have it in the bag.  I've read that when it powers down to standby mode it is a very light load.  Seems to me that the power switch is really most effective at make the other buttons mute and not really saving lots of power.

gkreis

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2010, 04:40:29 PM »
Doesn't the the guy's thumbnail look a little too perfect?  A model's manicured hands perhaps?

I say the images were leaked on purpose.

Just saying...

The EXIF says the shots were taken with a 7D at 400MM. That is effectively 640mm.  Do we think these are 1:1 crops? I am wondering how far away the spy was when he snapped the shots?

FWIW, those don't look professionally manicured to me...

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #56 on: August 11, 2010, 05:09:16 PM »
Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled?  I think we would both agree not.  So where is the sweet spot?
I'd love to see a 40MP APS-C camera, but like everything else in the world, you can't judge a camera by one specification alone. It will take a significant amount of processing power to chew through those, not to mention the storage requirements. It wouldn't be fun if it was too slow. As processing cost (both $ and in energy terms) continues to go down, and storage capacity goes up, that will become a non-issue in future.

For example, my personal belief is the quality "sweet spot" would be around 150MP for APS-C. Before you say that can't be made, that pixel density is already in use right now in compacts. What about diffraction? That density would start to limit around f/2.8, so a stopped down quality f/1.4 lens might be able to reach its potential. But would all those extra pixels be wasted at smaller apertures? Having many noisy pixels is a lot easier to process than too few cleaner ones. Look up oversampling. It would also help get around the bayer softness when working at lower output resolutions. If this is so great why haven't they done it yet? As said, the processing and storage cost for something like this wouldn't be fun with current technology. And also marketing... Less is "good enough" for now. The key thought is that individual pixels don't need to be perfect. The bigger picture is what matters.
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gkreis

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2010, 06:15:49 PM »
Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled?  I think we would both agree not.  So where is the sweet spot?
I'd love to see a 40MP APS-C camera, but like everything else in the world, you can't judge a camera by one specification alone. It will take a significant amount of processing power to chew through those, not to mention the storage requirements. It wouldn't be fun if it was too slow. As processing cost (both $ and in energy terms) continues to go down, and storage capacity goes up, that will become a non-issue in future.

For example, my personal belief is the quality "sweet spot" would be around 150MP for APS-C. Before you say that can't be made, that pixel density is already in use right now in compacts. What about diffraction? That density would start to limit around f/2.8, so a stopped down quality f/1.4 lens might be able to reach its potential. But would all those extra pixels be wasted at smaller apertures? Having many noisy pixels is a lot easier to process than too few cleaner ones. Look up oversampling. It would also help get around the bayer softness when working at lower output resolutions. If this is so great why haven't they done it yet? As said, the processing and storage cost for something like this wouldn't be fun with current technology. And also marketing... Less is "good enough" for now. The key thought is that individual pixels don't need to be perfect. The bigger picture is what matters.

The dynamic range on compacts is awful...  I dumped my G9 for that reason alone.  So, you may wish it, but I sure don't.....

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #57 on: August 11, 2010, 06:15:49 PM »

LukeS

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #58 on: August 11, 2010, 06:18:31 PM »
A good enhanced crop of the new joystick from the dpreview thread
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=36014593&page=2

Deeksie

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2010, 07:21:11 PM »
Hey guys, been reading about the 60D, and just wanted to make a post about higher pixel density sensors, so, this is my 1st post. :-D

I thought about the whole down sampling thing, and applied my further maths knowledge too it. I have come to the conclusion that a 40mp APS-C sensor image down-sampled too 10mp would create twice as much noise as a 10mp APS-C sensor when both are based on the same technology.

The amount of noise is basically the standard deviation of the pixel value from the actual value (if the pixel had no noise). This allows me to apply my statistics knowledge to the problem. I'm going to use some abbreviations for this maths as otherwise I'll be writing loads out.

SD=standard deviation
M=mean
SqRt= Square root

Now, imagine one pixel. Lets give it a SD of 1 (it's level of noise). Now imagine we quadruple the pixel density, there are now four pixels, because we have quartered the area of each one, it's noise level or SD increases by 4 times. So each of the four pixels have a SD of 4.

Now, say I want to use those four smaller pixels to create one big pixel using an algorithm to try and get one lower noise pixel. Basically I just find the M of the 4 pixels.

Here comes the issue, the SD of a sample mean (basically, the SD of the one pixel created from the 4 smaller ones) equals: SD/SqRt(number of pixels). If we apply this we can find the standard deviation of the one virtual pixel created from the 4 smaller ones:

4/SqRt(4) = 2

So as we can see the one physical pixel should, theoretically, have half as much noise as the one "virtual" pixel created from the four smaller pixels. I therefore propose that there is a very very sound reason for creating a newer sensor with a lower pixel count. This also implies that Canon has been doing great work at getting higher pixel density sensors that create lower or similar noise in print than older cameras with lower pixel counts.

I am fairly sure that this is correct, however, if I'm wrong, I would be happy to be corrected. :-)

Deeksie

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Re: Canon EOS 60D Pictures?
« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2010, 07:21:11 PM »