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Author Topic: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?  (Read 5849 times)

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 03:19:20 AM »
As others have said, 1DX is best for action/sports etc rather than weddings. I'd suggest the 85L 1.2 for capturing those magical moments while keeping the 5d IIIs.

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2012, 03:19:20 AM »

bdunbar79

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 09:39:14 AM »
Hi Jaayres20,

Since people here have already given you some really good information about the 1Dx, 85mm 1.2, 5D3, etc. and how all that might work together, let me offer you a different suggestion that nobody has suggested yet.  What about the possibility of not getting anything new at all at this point?  I'm not trying to be smug or mean spirited, but rather trying to give what I feel is really good advice given your current setup.  Even you admit you have plenty of gear to make amazing pictures.

I think sometimes when we have too much gear we tend to lose focus of why we have them in the first place and how we might grow to better use them.  I hear you, it is totally tempting to try out and want to use all the cool new things out there, but in truth if your end goal is to make compelling and thoughtful images for your client and yourself none of us really need as much gear as most of us probably already have.

If you don't have much money and this would put a burden on you that will in the long run diminish your enjoyment of the craft as you will constantly worry about what you sacrificed to attain all of that gear.  And even if you do have the money to keep buying whatever you want, I still argue that constantly chasing after new pieces of gear can ultimately hurt your ability to focus on making great use of the gear you already own.  Because when we get new pieces of gear, we often do tons of tests and wonder why it does this or why it does that or why it doesn't do this right or as well as that other piece of gear, or why some people seem to be having great success with it and others not....you get the point right?  Stuff, (not just photography gear) has a tendency of complicating our lives and we often end up being obsessed (as you rightly observed) with the things themselves rather than the more important stories that we were meant to create with them.

One of the most famous current wedding photographer by the name of Jeff Ascough (http://www.jeffascough.com) had once said in an interview that he shoots about 95% of all his wedding on a 24mm 1.4 and a 50mm 1.2.  His wedding work is inspired to be sure.  Even the great HCB used mainly a 35mm or 50mm lens his entire career and he is considered by many in our field as one of the greatest human photographer of all time.

I'm not trying to preach to you---lord knows I feel the same impulse as you, but nobody was giving you the advice that I think would best benefit you as a photographer---and that is to learn to use the gear you already have so expertly that you will eventually forget the gear all together and instead focus on the craft and narrative of our subjects and ourselves---after all isn't that really our goal as photographers?

Just my two cents.  All the best to you and I hope you create wonderful images with the fantastic setup you already have.

I am a wedding photographer and have two 5D mark IIIs, a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, a 50mm 1.2L, a 24mm 1.4L, a 100mm f/2.8L IS and three 600ex-rt flashes.  I have more than what I need to take amazing pictures in almost any situation but I after I buy something I find myself looking to the next thing to buy.  I don't know what is wrong with me it is like a disease.  I know I am crazy and should just be content with what I have.  So if you were in my situation and you were going to buy something new would you sell one of the 5D3s and get a 1DX or would you buy the 85mm 1.2?  I am a little afraid the 85mm 1.2 will be a little slow focusing at receptions similar to the 50mm 1.2.  I just don't understand that my 70-200 and 24mm are able to focus really well in almost no light but the 50mm is very slow and unreliable.  If the 85mm is anything like the 50mm in that regard it may change my decision.  I would love to use it for portraits and almost always shoot at very large apertures.  As a matter of fact I love a shallow DOF so much that I usually shoot two or three Brenizer method images each wedding to get the effect of f/0.5 or f/0.6.   

Excellent different view and great piece of advice.  I finally had to realize this and sold 3 camera bodies that I was not letting go of.  I'm much happier and more specialized now for what I really need to do.  Great post.
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2012, 11:23:37 AM »
Hi Jaayres20,

Since people here have already given you some really good information about the 1Dx, 85mm 1.2, 5D3, etc. and how all that might work together, let me offer you a different suggestion that nobody has suggested yet.  What about the possibility of not getting anything new at all at this point?  I'm not trying to be smug or mean spirited, but rather trying to give what I feel is really good advice given your current setup.  Even you admit you have plenty of gear to make amazing pictures.

I think sometimes when we have too much gear we tend to lose focus of why we have them in the first place and how we might grow to better use them.  I hear you, it is totally tempting to try out and want to use all the cool new things out there, but in truth if your end goal is to make compelling and thoughtful images for your client and yourself none of us really need as much gear as most of us probably already have.

If you don't have much money and this would put a burden on you that will in the long run diminish your enjoyment of the craft as you will constantly worry about what you sacrificed to attain all of that gear.  And even if you do have the money to keep buying whatever you want, I still argue that constantly chasing after new pieces of gear can ultimately hurt your ability to focus on making great use of the gear you already own.  Because when we get new pieces of gear, we often do tons of tests and wonder why it does this or why it does that or why it doesn't do this right or as well as that other piece of gear, or why some people seem to be having great success with it and others not....you get the point right?  Stuff, (not just photography gear) has a tendency of complicating our lives and we often end up being obsessed (as you rightly observed) with the things themselves rather than the more important stories that we were meant to create with them.

One of the most famous current wedding photographer by the name of Jeff Ascough (http://www.jeffascough.com) had once said in an interview that he shoots about 95% of all his wedding on a 24mm 1.4 and a 50mm 1.2.  His wedding work is inspired to be sure.  Even the great HCB used mainly a 35mm or 50mm lens his entire career and he is considered by many in our field as one of the greatest human photographer of all time.

I'm not trying to preach to you---lord knows I feel the same impulse as you, but nobody was giving you the advice that I think would best benefit you as a photographer---and that is to learn to use the gear you already have so expertly that you will eventually forget the gear all together and instead focus on the craft and narrative of our subjects and ourselves---after all isn't that really our goal as photographers?

Just my two cents.  All the best to you and I hope you create wonderful images with the fantastic setup you already have.

I am a wedding photographer and have two 5D mark IIIs, a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, a 50mm 1.2L, a 24mm 1.4L, a 100mm f/2.8L IS and three 600ex-rt flashes.  I have more than what I need to take amazing pictures in almost any situation but I after I buy something I find myself looking to the next thing to buy.  I don't know what is wrong with me it is like a disease.  I know I am crazy and should just be content with what I have.  So if you were in my situation and you were going to buy something new would you sell one of the 5D3s and get a 1DX or would you buy the 85mm 1.2?  I am a little afraid the 85mm 1.2 will be a little slow focusing at receptions similar to the 50mm 1.2.  I just don't understand that my 70-200 and 24mm are able to focus really well in almost no light but the 50mm is very slow and unreliable.  If the 85mm is anything like the 50mm in that regard it may change my decision.  I would love to use it for portraits and almost always shoot at very large apertures.  As a matter of fact I love a shallow DOF so much that I usually shoot two or three Brenizer method images each wedding to get the effect of f/0.5 or f/0.6.   

This is an excellent post. It is so easy to get bitten by the gear virus. I am also totally obsessed with new gear and reading this forces me to lean back and relax a little.

Regarding your specific question, the 5D3 is super capable for weddings, the only advantage of the 1DX that I can see is the 2/3 stop better performance in low light, but it has to be very dark for this to be an issue. A 1DX is not worth double of a 5D3 for a wedding photographer in my opinion. Sports and photojournalism is a complete different ballgame.

Regarding Lenses, you have an awesome setup. If you must get new gear, go for additional lenses

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2012, 11:27:11 AM »
I'm not sure this is "real."  Yes, the 1DX is cleaner at higher ISO's, but the images look darker.  So I question whether this is real or not.  I love the 1DX, don't get me wrong.  But maybe there's a reason the images look darker at ISO 6400 vs. the 5D3 at 6400?
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2012, 12:36:29 PM »
I certainly get the gear itch, but having just picked up a 1DX after already owning the 5D3, I can very easily advise you to stick with the 5D3 and spend your money elsewhere.  The 5D3 is a better wedding camera if only for the silent mode...the 1DX has nothing more to offer that you would actually use.  Plus, the extra resolution of the 5D3 will be nice to have when you're making prints of portraits and such.  The 1DX has better high ISO on paper, but when you compensate for the exposure difference, it's pretty much a toss-up.

The 85 f/1.2 is an exceptional lens, so not a bad investment at all -- performs quite well on the 5D3 to the point that speed shouldn't be factor against buying it.  If you already own a 70-200 f/2.8 II, you may not find it gives you all that much more than you already have.  The f-stops wider than 2.8 are so thin that you won't get an entire face in focus, so practical use for wedding portraits is a bit limited in that range.  My next purchase is probably going to be the 8-15mm f/4L Fisheye -- I currently have no way to produce the type of images that lens will give me, which makes it very appealing.   I've seen a lot of great wedding shots using the ultra-wide range and it would be a nice addition to the arsenal.

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2012, 01:14:50 PM »
85L > 1Dx.

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2012, 02:21:01 PM »
I own the 1DX and the 85 f/1.2 II and I can say that I would probably stick with matching camera bodies and buy the 85 if you had to spend money on something.  Having matching bodies is very important unless you have crazy skills and can effortlessly switch between bodies when shots have to be made instantly (weddings can move fast).  The 85 is a great lens but I find that it can be a bit unpredictable on some bodies.  The DOF can be very shallow at MFD when shot f/1.2 to f/5.6 and I find it a bit slow on focus and accuracy so I would not trust it for the money shots unless they are posed.  When that lens does hit, it really hits and produces some of the best shots I have ever seen (par with the 200 f/2 and 135 f/2 of which I own both).

As a side note, I have not found a church yet that had f/8 light when the bride walked down the isle (at a reasonable ISO) unless you are using flash which most are not.  It must be dark here in the Midwest.   :-\
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 02:23:17 PM by Studio1930 »
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2012, 02:21:01 PM »

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2012, 02:25:23 PM »
Chicken or egg question really... lens quality always supersedes body but do you do mostly fashion requiring that shallow DOF at 1.2 or fast action needing the 12 fps and the weather sealing of the body??

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2012, 03:54:35 PM »
Chicken or egg question really... lens quality always supersedes body but do you do mostly fashion requiring that shallow DOF at 1.2 or fast action needing the 12 fps and the weather sealing of the body??

A friend of mine got his 1D X last friday...we went to Pomona racetrack in CA. 1D X AF+fps makes my 5D III looks like a kid toy  :(  but when we got back to Hungtinton Beach to get some sunset shots, both 5D III & 1D X IQ are neck-2-neck in term of IQ.

If you don't need speed(fps), I think add 85L to your kit is a better choice. My 2cents
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2012, 03:55:41 PM »
The 85 is a little slow but if your just worried about getting a bride walking down the isle you should be fine with the 5D3. I found the lens to be extremely slow on a 5D2 so I used to keep it on a 1D4 for weddings and I even used it for college basketball at times. Now I have the 1DX and the combo is pretty dang awesome. Go for the 85L first because your missing a lot by not having this lens in your bag, you will have a hard time removing it from your camera once mounted :)

85L for sports
http://markwebbphoto.com/photojournalism2012/h3c590e38#h3c590e38

I love your shot of the firefighter with the hose in his hand. Amazing capture!
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #25 on: August 09, 2012, 04:05:12 PM »
I have more than what I need to take amazing pictures in almost any situation but I after I buy something I find myself looking to the next thing to buy.  I don't know what is wrong with me it is like a disease.  I know I am crazy and should just be content with what I have.  So if you were in my situation and you were going to buy something new would you sell one of the 5D3s and get a 1DX or would you buy the 85mm 1.2?  I am a little afraid the 85mm 1.2 will be a little slow focusing at receptions similar to the 50mm 1.2.

Well, I think most of us here feel exactly the same way.  I know I do! 

I'm not a Wedding Photographer, but I was a Wedding Videographer for a few years, so I can relate to the importance of capturing those once in a lifetime photos.  There's no do-over.  I have the 85mm f/1.2L II and I shot my friends Wedding as a second shooter, but unaffiliated with the wedding photographer, so I was able to play around and let me tell you I would not trust the 85mm 1.2 for critical moments during the ceremony or reception, but it definitely can find a place in your kit, for portraits, candids, rings, non-critical reception shots, flowers and things like that.

Of course you can nail great shots with or without pre-focusing and I have, but I wouldn't trust it down the Aisle. It's heavy, the DOF is thin, and it's slow, but when you do nail it, it's spectacular.

The 1DX is obviously an Awesome Camera and I can certainly see you selling one of your 5DIII's for it, but it's also a bit heavy to shoot with all day, and you should also consider that if you shoot with two cameras at the same time, then switching from the 1DX to the 5DIII quickly may present some confusion, and the 1DX will definitely feel heavier on your shoulder, especially with the 85mm f/1.2L attached.

However, I really do love the 1DX and 85mm f/1.2L II.  I'm not trying to talk you out of either.  I'm just adding some of my thoughts for you to consider.

If I did have to pick one then I would recommend the 85mm 1.2L II.

Rich

Please elaborate on how the DOF is thin on a lens?  If my basic photography understanding is somewhat accurate, wouldn't that depend on aperture??  Bride down the aisle is no problem with f/8.  You just have to know where to meter.

Wow. As a wedding photographer myself, the only time I ever shoot anything near f8 is when I'm doing a macro with the rings and i need some extra DoF. I shoot 90% of my photos on f2 (or 2.8 with my 70-200). The rest are at f1.4. (Yes, big group shots are stopped down a tad bit more, but certainly not to f8).

My advice for the OP is to get the sigma 85 1.4. The difference between that and the canon are small, the sigma focuses faster, and it way cheaper. I love it and so will you. Shoot it wide open and be amazed. It has a significantly higher keeper rate than my canon 50.
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #26 on: August 09, 2012, 05:10:18 PM »
Quite a few well deserved votes for the Sigma 85mm 1.4, as it has a fine reputation as well!

Here's a nice little review comparing the Sigma 85mm f/1.4 to the Canon 85mm f/1.2L II:

http://darwinwiggett.wordpress.com/2011/04/12/sigma-85mm-f1-4-vs-canon-85mm-f1-2l-ii/


Enjoy,
Rich


bdunbar79

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 06:24:17 PM »
I have more than what I need to take amazing pictures in almost any situation but I after I buy something I find myself looking to the next thing to buy.  I don't know what is wrong with me it is like a disease.  I know I am crazy and should just be content with what I have.  So if you were in my situation and you were going to buy something new would you sell one of the 5D3s and get a 1DX or would you buy the 85mm 1.2?  I am a little afraid the 85mm 1.2 will be a little slow focusing at receptions similar to the 50mm 1.2.

Well, I think most of us here feel exactly the same way.  I know I do! 

I'm not a Wedding Photographer, but I was a Wedding Videographer for a few years, so I can relate to the importance of capturing those once in a lifetime photos.  There's no do-over.  I have the 85mm f/1.2L II and I shot my friends Wedding as a second shooter, but unaffiliated with the wedding photographer, so I was able to play around and let me tell you I would not trust the 85mm 1.2 for critical moments during the ceremony or reception, but it definitely can find a place in your kit, for portraits, candids, rings, non-critical reception shots, flowers and things like that.

Of course you can nail great shots with or without pre-focusing and I have, but I wouldn't trust it down the Aisle. It's heavy, the DOF is thin, and it's slow, but when you do nail it, it's spectacular.

The 1DX is obviously an Awesome Camera and I can certainly see you selling one of your 5DIII's for it, but it's also a bit heavy to shoot with all day, and you should also consider that if you shoot with two cameras at the same time, then switching from the 1DX to the 5DIII quickly may present some confusion, and the 1DX will definitely feel heavier on your shoulder, especially with the 85mm f/1.2L attached.

However, I really do love the 1DX and 85mm f/1.2L II.  I'm not trying to talk you out of either.  I'm just adding some of my thoughts for you to consider.

If I did have to pick one then I would recommend the 85mm 1.2L II.

Rich

Please elaborate on how the DOF is thin on a lens?  If my basic photography understanding is somewhat accurate, wouldn't that depend on aperture??  Bride down the aisle is no problem with f/8.  You just have to know where to meter.

Wow. As a wedding photographer myself, the only time I ever shoot anything near f8 is when I'm doing a macro with the rings and i need some extra DoF. I shoot 90% of my photos on f2 (or 2.8 with my 70-200). The rest are at f1.4. (Yes, big group shots are stopped down a tad bit more, but certainly not to f8).

My advice for the OP is to get the sigma 85 1.4. The difference between that and the canon are small, the sigma focuses faster, and it way cheaper. I love it and so will you. Shoot it wide open and be amazed. It has a significantly higher keeper rate than my canon 50.

Really?  Why?  I'm not doubting your success one bit.  I just prefer on most of my shots to have a deeper DOF.  Close ups and portrait shots sure, I'll shoot very wide.  But some shots, like bride up the aisle, I like background in focus too.  It's just my personal preference.  Again, many have different styles that work for them.  I use a lot of flash and I can shoot at pretty high ISO values.  I won't be doing many weddings as my task has now been devoted to sports.  I prefer sports because it's more fun to me personally and there's a lot less pressure than a wedding :)
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #27 on: August 09, 2012, 06:24:17 PM »

Tcapp

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #28 on: August 09, 2012, 06:27:39 PM »
I have more than what I need to take amazing pictures in almost any situation but I after I buy something I find myself looking to the next thing to buy.  I don't know what is wrong with me it is like a disease.  I know I am crazy and should just be content with what I have.  So if you were in my situation and you were going to buy something new would you sell one of the 5D3s and get a 1DX or would you buy the 85mm 1.2?  I am a little afraid the 85mm 1.2 will be a little slow focusing at receptions similar to the 50mm 1.2.

Well, I think most of us here feel exactly the same way.  I know I do! 

I'm not a Wedding Photographer, but I was a Wedding Videographer for a few years, so I can relate to the importance of capturing those once in a lifetime photos.  There's no do-over.  I have the 85mm f/1.2L II and I shot my friends Wedding as a second shooter, but unaffiliated with the wedding photographer, so I was able to play around and let me tell you I would not trust the 85mm 1.2 for critical moments during the ceremony or reception, but it definitely can find a place in your kit, for portraits, candids, rings, non-critical reception shots, flowers and things like that.

Of course you can nail great shots with or without pre-focusing and I have, but I wouldn't trust it down the Aisle. It's heavy, the DOF is thin, and it's slow, but when you do nail it, it's spectacular.

The 1DX is obviously an Awesome Camera and I can certainly see you selling one of your 5DIII's for it, but it's also a bit heavy to shoot with all day, and you should also consider that if you shoot with two cameras at the same time, then switching from the 1DX to the 5DIII quickly may present some confusion, and the 1DX will definitely feel heavier on your shoulder, especially with the 85mm f/1.2L attached.

However, I really do love the 1DX and 85mm f/1.2L II.  I'm not trying to talk you out of either.  I'm just adding some of my thoughts for you to consider.

If I did have to pick one then I would recommend the 85mm 1.2L II.

Rich

Please elaborate on how the DOF is thin on a lens?  If my basic photography understanding is somewhat accurate, wouldn't that depend on aperture??  Bride down the aisle is no problem with f/8.  You just have to know where to meter.

Wow. As a wedding photographer myself, the only time I ever shoot anything near f8 is when I'm doing a macro with the rings and i need some extra DoF. I shoot 90% of my photos on f2 (or 2.8 with my 70-200). The rest are at f1.4. (Yes, big group shots are stopped down a tad bit more, but certainly not to f8).

My advice for the OP is to get the sigma 85 1.4. The difference between that and the canon are small, the sigma focuses faster, and it way cheaper. I love it and so will you. Shoot it wide open and be amazed. It has a significantly higher keeper rate than my canon 50.

Really?  Why?  I'm not doubting your success one bit.  I just prefer on most of my shots to have a deeper DOF.  Close ups and portrait shots sure, I'll shoot very wide.  But some shots, like bride up the aisle, I like background in focus too.  It's just my personal preference.  Again, many have different styles that work for them.  I use a lot of flash and I can shoot at pretty high ISO values.  I won't be doing many weddings as my task has now been devoted to sports.  I prefer sports because it's more fun to me personally and there's a lot less pressure than a wedding :)

i would love to do sports.

I shoot wide open because im a 99% natural light shooter. I need to let the light in. And I LOVE that thin DOF. Brings the attention all on the bride. And we KNOW brides like attention. ;)
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bdunbar79

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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 06:34:43 PM »
Tcapp,

I understand.  You probably make the faces/people sort of "pop" out from the background?  In retrospect I wish I had done more of that style in the past.  This is one reason I joined this site so that I could improve and learn in all of my weak areas.  Sports is quite a bit different from weddings and I'd say if I had to choose, weddings are more difficult in all areas of photography.
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Re: 1DX or 85mm 1.2?
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2012, 06:34:43 PM »