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Author Topic: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800  (Read 25364 times)

vuilang

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2012, 03:11:52 PM »
I've tried to argue this point time and time again.  The 5D2 isn't as good as anything regarding the 5D3.  The 5D2 isn't a bad camera.  The 5D3 just happens to be better, at everything.

Landscape shot, tripod mounted, manually focused, ISO 100. How is the 5DIII better?

(If you say 'becuase it has one more MP', I'll scream...   ;) )
yes, landscape.. Not much different.. but the HDR is when no post  (i been having lot of joys shooting HDR landscape)
but landscape? isnt better with D800?
asking 5d2 n 5d3 shooting at  (Landscape shot, tripod mounted, manually focused, ISO 100)
is same as asking Ferrari VS Toyota hybrid cruise @ 60mph.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2012, 03:12:22 PM »
I have to say, I cannot take this article seriously because it starts off with a typo. Unless hvae is some weird nikonian slang. 

Since it's passed on from a local newspaper, it seems more likely to me that it's a typo by the OP, no?

LOL...if thats the case then the OP has way too much time on their hands!  I would copy paste something from a local newspaper, but, I would never retype the whole dang thing!  Why not go shooting instead of retyping some ridiculous local rag trash...lol
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RLPhoto

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2012, 03:48:29 PM »
Thankfully the D800 is here.  None of the photos I ever took the last 10 years made me smile until the D800.  Now photography can begin.

Of course! and any feeble attempt to reason otherwise will bring down the hammer on you here on CR. ::)

jsbraby

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2012, 04:06:50 PM »
I have to say, I cannot take this article seriously because it starts off with a typo. Unless hvae is some weird nikonian slang. 

Since it's passed on from a local newspaper, it seems more likely to me that it's a typo by the OP, no?

I took a couple minutes with google, and this appears to be the original source. http://dpexpert.com.au/?p=1592 It appears the author reposted the same thing to a Sydney paper 2 days later... http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/cameras/review-canon-eos-5d-mkiii-dslr-20120808-23t04.html

briansquibb

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2012, 04:22:14 PM »

Do you shoot?
Do you print?
Do you do ANY post-processing to make your print or screen image look BETTER?!?

If so, then you'd appreciate the value of the extra DR.  After all, especially when printing, you have to compress the DR of the captured scene to very limited effective DR of print media otherwise you have a very contrasty image with blocked up shadows and blown hilites.


Extra DR is pnly usefull if the image is taken with it. For the average image with only 8-10 DR then the possible extra from the D800 is just not used.

Good pp ensures the printing issues are resolved before printing.

Cali_PH

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2012, 04:26:04 PM »
I have to say, I cannot take this article seriously because it starts off with a typo. Unless hvae is some weird nikonian slang. 

Since it's passed on from a local newspaper, it seems more likely to me that it's a typo by the OP, no?

LOL...if thats the case then the OP has way too much time on their hands!  I would copy paste something from a local newspaper, but, I would never retype the whole dang thing!  Why not go shooting instead of retyping some ridiculous local rag trash...lol

Perhaps, but it probably took him/her less time to type it than the time people have spent posting in tho thread, me included.

Aglet

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2012, 01:43:36 AM »
Extra DR is pnly usefull if the image is taken with it. For the average image with only 8-10 DR then the possible extra from the D800 is just not used.

Good pp ensures the printing issues are resolved before printing.

I agree, somewhat...

Having a camera with extra DR means you'll have cleaner shadows, even if your image didn't contain anything as dark as the extremes the camera can record at some given SNR.  Thing is, many common scenes DO contain a wide DR.

Real world example below.
I just did a recent portrait shoot using 5D2 at ISO 100, outdoors (ughh) but at least on a cloudy day.  Using a 580EX2 for flash fill yet! 

Using the RAW tab in DPP:

Processing in DPP displays a raw luminance histogram ranging from -6.5 to +3 EV un-adjusted, pretty decent considering that it shows a full range for the 5D2 of -9 to +3.8-ish.  This looked fine when chimping the shot on the back of the 5D2 and using the RGB histogram.

But back at the shop
* Things are a little dull so +.67 EV added in DPP. 
* People are wearing dark gray and black dress pants with some sheen, + 2 clicks of shadow adjust so you can see some detail in the dark, but not darkest areas.
* -2 clicks of hilite adjust to soften the sky reflections off a receding hairline
* -2 clicks on contrast to slightly soften the whole scene so no blocked shadows or hilites or unpleasant contrasts.

Image is now beautifully balanced tonally, it will print well.  Except for.. what's that I can see?...  plaid pattern noise on the darker areas of the (almost) black pants!  And they've been lit a little extra from the shadows using fill flash!
In an 8x10 size print, we won't notice it, the pattern noise blends into the dark areas. If I print about 12x18" tho, it'll be visible; to ME anyway.

These are common adjustments to present a nicely balanced, professional-looking image that's not too contrasty. I've seen far too many "pros" frequently provide grossly contrasty images to clueless customers.  They can't complain about shadow noise they can't see because they've clipped it to black, along with some real shadow detail.  These photogs may as well use a cheap point'n'shoot but that's a rant for another time.

Summarizing, many common scenarios, even using some fill light, can provide a wider DR than expected, 9.5EV in this case on a cloudy day using fill light.  Properly toning an image can require lifting the shadow regions enough that the pattern noise can show up in dark areas that are large enough not to obscure them from our perception.  Printing larger will also make the pattern noise more apparent.

If you really light your scenes well, expose the right a little, without clipping, and bring it back down in post, you won't see this issue.  If you work in the real world with minimal lighting control, even a simple cloudy day portrait shoot can show up the weakness in Canon's shadow noise.  If you're shooting landscapes on a sunny day and have a wider DR and you need to compress it to make the image look how you want, you will run into this problem as well.

So to those few I often spar with here on this issue, the above is a real world scenario that's not even an extreme example and it'll STILL show up the weakness of Canon's sensor tech some of us complain about.
Hence whey I ask if they shoot (in real world lighting), process, and print. Because if they do, and strive for a nice looking final image, then they will run into this. It's just a fact. 8)

briansquibb

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2012, 04:11:10 AM »

So to those few I often spar with here on this issue, the above is a real world scenario that's not even an extreme example and it'll STILL show up the weakness of Canon's sensor tech some of us complain about.
Hence whey I ask if they shoot (in real world lighting), process, and print. Because if they do, and strive for a nice looking final image, then they will run into this. It's just a fact. 8)

I shoot low iso with a 1DS3 - no patterning in the darks
I shoot to the right
I shoot with a lot of good light

I dont get the problems you describe

I can understand what you are talking about - taking snapshots with a 7D at iso 1600, shooting to the left, big crop and printing on a 16 x 12 will definitely give problems.

You are suggesting that people should buy a camera that will cope with poor  technique,  rushed images and bad the scenario. What you are infact suggesting is a super duper P&S.

Bad news for you - the D800 cant cope with sports and wildlfe, so however good the image is then missing the shot wont compensate - better a poor IQ than missing the shot.

Aglet

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2012, 03:26:53 PM »
I shoot low iso with a 1DS3 - no patterning in the darks
I shoot to the right
I shoot with a lot of good light

I dont get the problems you describe

by doing that, you're doing everything correctly to create the best possible file for PP and printing.
and 1DS3 is a pretty clean camera with a little something special about its images, I sometimes wish I'd have bought one instead of 5D2.

I can understand what you are talking about - taking snapshots with a 7D at iso 1600, shooting to the left, big crop and printing on a 16 x 12 will definitely give problems.

Actually, correcting slightly underexposed or excessively contrasty snaps with a 7D at LOW ISO is even worse, it's banding is horrendous and can really show up then. At least it does on mine.

You are suggesting that people should buy a camera that will cope with poor  technique,  rushed images and bad the scenario. What you are infact suggesting is a super duper P&S.

And what's wrong with that? :)  They can save learning proper lighting and exposure for later while still getting good images. 

Actually..
What I am trying to convey is that many commonly shot scenes, which do not have a lot of good light, will have enough DR that it's possible to show Canon's shadow noise when processing an image to print. And, if the print is large enough, it can show up in the shadows of that print. 

My 5D2 often annoys me with this, my Nikons do not because they don't have pattern noise, they provide a much more random, Gaussian distribution of their noise which is very natural looking and is perceptually a non-issue.  That means I can manipulate the shadows as much as I want, can underexpose by accident, and STILL have a workable file and create a better image than I can from any of my Canon bodies under the same conditions.

Bad news for you - the D800 cant cope with sports and wildlfe, so however good the image is then missing the shot wont compensate - better a poor IQ than missing the shot.

I still keep my 7D for fast-paced work and wildlife because I have the long glass for it it.  The glass itself, and the nature of the shots, generally means I don't have to cope with as much contrast and DR so if I ETTR a bit, I still get good images from it.  And I still have a few Canon bodies I regularly use vs 2 Nikons.

As you well know, and I think you've stated elsewhere, knowing your equipment, and its limitations, allows you to get the best results from it by using appropriate techniques.
I'm just trying to define those limits for people who don't seem to be aware of them. (BTW, you weren't on that list ;))

As for the D800 not being able to cope with fast work or wildlife, I haven't put it to the test yet.  Others have and the results are within what i'd expect of a camera like that.  I.E.  It can do the job but it's not the best at it.  But that's not whey I've added it to my kit.
I got Nikon gear to fill a niche in my shooting; they contend with scenes I know are extremely DR challenging where my Canons fail to meet my needs.  And it's usually a "slow" shooting scenario, everything manual where I can take the time to optimize the setup, if not the lighting.  The D800/e is my ultimate imaging machine for landscape and close-up or macro work because I really don't want to spend the giant wads of loot required to go medium format for landscapes.


briansquibb

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2012, 03:34:54 PM »
I have practically stopped using the 7D - if I do it is at iso400 for web type shots - which it is fine for.

Speed vs IQ has been a difficult choice for some time. I am getting a 1DX and hope that the IQ is an improvement over the 1D4 (not that the 1D4 is bad - especially in good light). Whether it gets close to the 1Ds3 is another matter.

A lot of people say that better cameras dont mean better pictures. I can only say better cameras give better pictures when the conditions are harsh

 

Aglet

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #85 on: August 12, 2012, 03:02:50 PM »
A lot of people say that better cameras dont mean better pictures. I can only say better cameras give better pictures when the conditions are harsh

+1.
It gives us a larger envelope of operating range to work with.

I'd thought about selling my 7D and 5D2 to fund a 5D3 or 1Dx but that's a losing proposition for the way I use my gear at this time.

I even thot about just selling them while their residual value was still good, in anticipation of whatever else new and exciting may be announced by either Canon or Nikon this fall, but I'm not that big a gambler.

I'll finish the summer with the gear I have, it works well enough and I aware of their limitations and how to work around them, but I would like something with better IQ to take the place of the 7D for what little wildlife/fast shooting I do. And I'd love a FF Canon with better low ISO performance.. Or better Tilt-shift glass from Nikon.

Well, gotta figure out how to get the canoe out to the lake this afternoon... Pelicans are waiting. :)

victorwol

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #86 on: August 12, 2012, 04:15:57 PM »
From a local newspaper:

Verdict: This is a wonderful camera. If you hvae Canon lenses and want to move into the blissful realm of full-frame capture, then the 5D Mk III is for you. But the MkII is just as good for stills and costs $1600 less. If you already have a 5D Mk II (as we do), there is no pressing reason to upgrade. If you are starting from scratch with nothing invested in lenses and accessories, then look at the Nikon D800. It has superior ergonomics, a more luxurious feel and higher resolution sensor, and produces uncompressed video. And it is several hundred dollars cheaper.[/u]

Uncompressed video? Really? He probably forgot to mention the need of an external recorder for that...
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wickidwombat

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #87 on: August 15, 2012, 07:54:28 PM »
Thankfully the D800 is here.  None of the photos I ever took the last 10 years made me smile until the D800.  Now photography can begin.
your d800 is only making you smile? it must be faulty take it back it should be making you crack a fat at the very least
APS-H Fanboy

Axilrod

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2012, 12:42:04 PM »
IMO the D800 feels cheap compared to the 5DIII, the flimsiness of the CF card door really turned me off. 
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

Aglet

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Re: 5D3 review: If you don't own Canon, buy the Nikon D800
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2012, 02:56:01 AM »
IMO the D800 feels cheap compared to the 5DIII, the flimsiness of the CF card door really turned me off.

I don't find it all that different than the 5D3, overall.  D800's plastic bits DO feel a little cheap but hey, it costs less and they put some effort into other stuff the 5D3 doesn't have.  Like the viewfinder shutter and extremely low sensor read noise.

They both fit my hand well too, just differently.  Still trying to get used to the D800's near instant "crunch!" sounding shutter compared to the sound and vibration of the mirror flop on my 5D2.  Sure like 5D3's quiet mode tho.