April 21, 2014, 11:13:40 AM

Author Topic: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon  (Read 70296 times)

rpt

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2013, 08:18:27 AM »
As my posts were not constructive, I have removed them.

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #435 on: April 21, 2013, 08:18:27 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #436 on: April 21, 2013, 08:48:06 AM »
Frankly, IMO, I find far too much of a potentially good thread is often taken up by off-topic and unconstructive posts with an inflammatory tone, making it tedious for those who want to follow it ...

Many potentially useful threads have been derailed by the very thing the that instigates the 'humor' or outright attacks that lead to thread moderation/locking.  I'd say the inflammatory posts are those posts that are made knowing exactly what outcome will result.  Before ankorwatt/Mikael had his Mikeal account and all his posts deleted, we'd seen that awning comparison in at least 10 threads, and countless QPcards on barbecues, sheds, and now pianos.

Go to an astronomy forum, and in any thread which mentions the solar system, post a modern diagram of ours and state that Copernicus was right and Ptolemy was wrong.  That's just stating a fact, but after a while its going to start pissing people off...and that's not even considering the fact that there aren't many devotees of the Ptolemaic model. 

Maybe there are people on Nikon forums who repeatedly post the same example images to show how certain of Canon's lenses are better than the Nikon equivalent.  If so, that's just as inflammatory.  Should Mikael be insulted for posting the 'truth' that the D800 has a wider DR?  No.  But repeated posting of the same contrived examples is the epitome of tedious, and downright annoying.  Since he's repeatedly posting those examples in response to those he's argued with on many previous occasions, he knows exactly the response it will provoke.  That he does it anyway, again and again, and indeed seems to have created new accounts just to do so, says a lot about his character. 
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TrumpetPower!

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #437 on: April 21, 2013, 09:34:06 AM »
with what should I answer for example trumpet power when he declare that 5dmk3 and 1dx has the same exposure latitude that d800 ? = large DR?

Mikael, I have never, ever claimed any such thing.

My point is, and always has been, that, though the D800 offers marginally more dynamic range, the dynamic range of the 5DIII and 1DX is already most substantial. When you can take a 5DIII image that's been so grossly underexposed that it's mostly black on the preview window and easily rescue it into a clean file suitable for extreme enlargements, it's meaningless to bitch about how shitty its dynamic range is -- which is basically all you do here. It's as meaningless as bitching that minivan x is crippled because it "only" has a top speed of 95 mph, and we know this to be true because minivan y has a top speed of a whopping 105 mph.

So who cares that you can rescue even more grossly underexposed images with a D800?

If you can't get clean images in bright light -- and all you do here is post very noisy images taken in very bright light -- then the problem isn't even close to being with the equipment. The problem is the gross incompetence of the person operating the equipment.

Lots of people here have posted examples of very clean images taken with the 5DIII and 1DX in extreme situations. And those same people have tried to explain to you the basic, introductory-level photographic techniques they used to achieve those results. Yet you continue to insist that those people haven't a clue...while you go on to post yet more really bad snapshots plagued with all sorts of technical problems, all the while insisting that you know more about technique than those who don't have your problems.

Dude, the problem isn't your gear. Your gear is just fine. The problem is with the person who's operating your gear.

Cheers,

b&

neuroanatomist

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #438 on: April 21, 2013, 09:37:16 AM »
Neuro
with what should I answer for example trumpet power when he declare that 5dmk3 and 1dx has the same exposure latitude that d800 ? = large DR?  well,  I show it  with a comparison from 1dx and d800  ,

Do you think your comparison convinced him?  Since he's seen it at least a dozen times and still responded the way he did, it's pretty obvious that showing him the same comparison a 13th, 20th, or 200th time won't convince him, either.  Did you notice that I've given up responding to your comparison posts?  It became pointless.

There's a sign over the bar in The Squealing Pig, a pub near where I work, taken from a Robert Heinlein quote: "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

So, I'd suggest that you simply don't answer at all.  I'd suggest the same to TrumpetPower.  The issues are important to some people here, but the repeated arguing is really damn pointless.  Neither of you will convince the other, just accept it and move on. 

</rant>
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Aglet

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #439 on: April 21, 2013, 03:09:03 PM »
...
..
So, I'd suggest that you simply don't answer at all.  I'd suggest the same to TrumpetPower.  The issues are important to some people here, but the repeated arguing is really damn pointless.  Neither of you will convince the other, just accept it and move on.  </rant>

That is good advice all around.
I think that too often people are compelled to post something in response to a post, even if it's not contributing to the actual technical aspect.

If your momma never told you, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." ..
Well, here it is.

Amending it for an internet based discussion forum would likely go something more like,
"If you can't contribute something useful to the topic, please reconsider posting anything at all."

I have to commend all involved that, at least from what I've seen recently, the level of rancour amongst differing viewpoints has taken a more civil route, even on this topic which has been beaten to death since I joined up a year ago to discuss this very issue.

So thank-you, various posters, for doing your best to remain civil.  It improves what is already one of the better places for photographic discourse.

Now for the tech contribution to the topic: I think we'll find that, as Canon moves into DiGiC 5 products, we'll see somewhat less of the general noise and banding issues which plagued a few of the DiGiC 4 equipped models and may have been less of a problem with earlier DiGiC 2 & 3 bodies.

A recent chat with a Canon rep, busy as ever manning a booth, solo in front of a large crowd of curious onlookers, who said that there are many improvements in DiGiC 5 for high AND low ISO noise issues... A point he was eager to make when I told him that I'd dumped all my DiGiC 4 bodies due to poor noise performance for my uses.
He then handed me a 6D and asked me to play with it a while and let him know what i thought of it compared to the 5D2 I had... I know he already knew the answer to that. :)

Gotta say, other than the reduced overall noise and noticeably reduced FPN on the 6D, the thing I really like about it is the smoother quieter shutter.  The 5D2 had such a crude THWACK! along with significant body shake induced by that big mirror being let loose and poorly damped.  The 6D feels more like a nicely balanced match-rifle than the shotgun-like 5D2.  it's even nicer, i think, than the quick CRUNCH sound the D800's shutter makes.
I haven't had a chance to really shoot with a 6D, likely won't unless I buy one.  Likely won't do that either until I find a compelling enough reason to go back to Canon for FF.  And about the only reason that will be is if my hankering for a tilt-shift 24mm is not satisfied by the upcoming Samyang for F-mount.
Plunking a 6D on the back of Canon's fabulous 24 and 17mm TS lenses will likely be the most practical solution for some of what I want those lenses for.  This might have been speeded up, somewhat, if the darn resale value for D800s was better. All those factory refurbs have dropped my resale value to the point where I now will likely have to keep using both of them for at least a year to get more value from them.

bdunbar79

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #440 on: April 21, 2013, 11:30:01 PM »
See.  Nobody cares.

RLPhoto

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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #441 on: April 22, 2013, 12:25:55 AM »
See.  Nobody cares.

Yup, especially when no photography is in the posts.
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Re: DxOMark Sensor Performance: Nikon vs. Canon
« Reply #441 on: April 22, 2013, 12:25:55 AM »