7D Specs

Sounds very good if it’s true. And of course to be FF.

is it FF or APS-C? if its FF wouldn’t it conflict with the 5D II?

18 Mp ? : It has to be a bigger sensor than APS-C

8FPS ?!? : It will be really difficult to justify a full frame (5D 2 Buyer will be angry…like me!)

19 AF points ???? : Here it MUST be APS-H, if not there will be riots in Canon users (I will join!), Canon will have to issue service change for 5d2 owner to replace AF module (I would love that though, great upgrade and the the best DSLR for me then).

My guess : We have here the “Prince of Darkness” we were talking about a month ago or so. APS-H, fully featured, good AF, and 1080p video…This will really kill the D300s…and somewhat the D700…

But…What remains for the 60D so? There MUST be an upgrade for APS-C line…but I think it’s not top priority…or…we could as well see canon turning back temporarily to CMOS for CCD sensor like the G11, with killing noise free pictures…

Wait and see. I wait for the lenses…all the non-L lenses, except for the recent EF-S lenses are too old, or for some EF-S too shaby in termes of performance…

The biggest problem from canon is the lack of consistency in the production : the lenses are great…IF CALIBRATED properly and with no backfocus or front focus…and it hapens a lot. 80% of my lenses need micro adjustements…and ALL of my L lenses need…

Once properly calibrated, and aligned, all the lenses show good performance, but some not as good as Nikon’s one recently. Time to work :-)

If this is a 7D, what the heck will a 1dIV bring us?

25 mp, FF, 12 fps or something? I think Canon will have to merge 1D and 1Ds series.

You can’t complain now. You knowingly bought a product with known inferior AF. You should have voted with your wallet like the rest of us did. Too late to cry now.

Remember that they can always release a 5D3, or split the line into a 7D (low-end compact FF) and 3D (high-end compact FF). Canon do this specification leapfrogging all the time with the xxxD and xxD lines. They even did it with the 5D2 and the 1Ds3 (if you consider what you get for the price difference). It is the whole package that pro buyers are after, not just one particular item on the spec. sheet.

A new 3D could be a faster (6 fps?) version of the 5D2 with pro-AF (maybe the current 1D3 system), weather sealing, etc. in a compact body. The sensor might be enhanced from the current 5D2, maybe to 24MP with better sensitivity. They might toss in 24p and 25p HD video. This could be positioned above the current 5D2 and that body discontinued. It would appeal to the movie brigade and those who want a compact pro model and are willing to pay extra for it.

The 7D might have the trimmed down 1D AF (19 points) that people have rumoured, no weather sealing, recycle the current 5DII sensor, same (slow) speed and lack of 24p HD video. Lacklustre as a 5D3, but enticing if the price is right. This might be why the rumoured prices are very close to the 5D2, it is basically its replacement/rebranding.

Then, just bump up the spec. on the 1D4 with fancy new AF, HD video and some go-faster stripes and toss 38MP, GPS, etc. at the 1Ds4 to put it back at the top of the pedestal.

You heard it here first! ;-)

Actually I am a pro with no money, but either way, I am still not going to buy a POS camera that produces twenty something MP of OOF blur.

so I can act like a jerk

Canon will not put more than 15MP on an APS-C sensor.

Plus – I sincerely doubt 8fps could be achieved on a FF camera and at the same/similar price point to the 5D MkII.

If these stats were true this would be am awesome camera, but I honestly do not believe it.

Maybe APS-H sensor and 8fps? That’s more believable than FF, but they’d need to release 1D Mk IV at same time – otherwise this camera would be better in most areas than the 1D Mk III.

I would be happy with any of the following:

1. 60D/7D with 15.1mp, APS-C and 8fps provided it can compete with D300 in low light.

2. 60D/7D with any mp, APS-H and 6+fps.

3. 60D/7D with any mp, FF and 5+fps.

Not true. Please post your workings for these calculations.

Same goes for you.

Sorry about that, I will stop saying things that might encourage Canon to drop the direct print buttons.

Yah, because that is seriously the most important feature to me.

There will be no replacing of the AF module in the 5D2; this would be an outlandish service process and would never be seriously considered, particularly given Canon’s penchant for assuming customer loyalty / not caring.

The “Price of Darkness” will be the 1DIV, whenever announced, and will include a wholly new type of sensor very similar in some ways to the Foveon but both (rationally) including an AA filter and having a much, much higher efficiency. It may also debut a number of other noise-reduction technologies, though it’s possible that these will be released as part of whatever the 7D turns out to be.

what are you talking about???

18mp is 18 mp.

18mp times 8fps = 144 million reasons to buy the camera.
wasnt there something said like this lately.
i think that the fact that it has lower mp than the 5dII plus the high fps yous make it like a prosumer model of the 1dIII. likely to be a 1.3 crop prosumer body for sports and birds…

though, i would have loved to see a lower end FF-cam

I still don’t believe merging is in their best interest. The markets are considerably different, even though there are folks who switch between them. Using the same AF makes good business sense, but ideal sensel sizes (particularly given the retraction of MP as a major marketing feature), LL performance, etc. make the markets for these very different. To raise the price so much on the 1D shooters would put them out of the market and defer them to Nikon. To lower the price on the 1Ds so far as to keep the 1D shooters would cut considerably into the company’s margin. I think they’ll keep them separate save, as I mention, for the AF.

and what about a dgic V ?

The alternative is to assume that this is an APS sensor which was originally to have been the 5D2’s when they panicked and released the 21MP version instead as a result of the a900 introduction. We had heard a lot of solid information last year that the 5D2 would be in this MP range and offer more in the way of AF / fps, so it could well be. At that, though, to reach any of the suggested price points, I would doubt there to be any weather sealing on this thing – that’s too much camera for Canon to release if it were sealed as well (18 MP APS = ~11MP APS-H, or > 1DIII resolution).

The digital tradition?

Canon have a patent application in for a Foveon-style sensor which they lay claim to have in current form at ~33MP in a non-standard format. Cropped to APS, it would be around 27 or 28 MP (can’t require what I calculated offhand). They believe that they can attain an efficiency at least as good with these as they can with CMOS sensors while making a good gain in apparent resolution (particularly color resolution) by discarding the need for Bayer. It’s a fascinating design and will likely be integrated with another patent for ‘dark pixels’ for recreating a map of the sensor dark current to be subtracted out of the final image at high ISO, as well as a few other things for improving high-ISO performance. I’ll look up the patent number and post it after bit.

US Patent Application #20090008735, “PHOTO DETECTOR, IMAGE SENSOR, PHOTO-DETECTION METHOD, AND IMAGING METHOD”.

7680×4320 for claimed resolution, thought they note that the sensor could be designed and employed at a wide range of MP / sensel sizes.

Ted, if you’re right about the 3D or a 5D3, I would cry tears of joy and have cash in hand to get one of those. Now it’s just a matter of waiting and seeing what they actually come out with, but man do I hope you’re right…

Sensel size.

aps-c. Canon is fan of pixel densite.

I would like to see Canon make the step to phase out APS-C sensors. I like these specs a lot more than the earlier ones that were floating arond. Could be awesome in a APS-H crop.

Here is a thought to kick around… does Canon change the line up all together and discontinue the xxD line? So all of the “Debbie Digitals” buy the xxxD line, the xD line assumes the “prosumer” group, and the 1D line is the top of the heap. The only difference being that the xD line you need to buy the battery grip like it is now. Could put some interesting preasure on Nikon, for the first time in… 18 – 20 months-ish

I go with the APS-H…

Since we have a prosumer 1Ds with the 5DMKII (which is still selling well) why not having a prosumer 1D with the 7D ? They will get in the customer that cannot wait for the next 1D MKIV (or whatever it will be called). Then they could try to sell them the 1DMKIV after.

Both 1D MKIV and 7D could share the same sensor (reducing Canon cost) but with different fps, features and of course bodies. Sounds ok to me. The point for Canon here is to have some xxD customer moving to the xD… and moving their EF-S lenses as well (think more selling for Canon)

It’s a 4×5 inch sensor. Take it to the bank.

I’m moving to Canon and so do my Nikon shooter friends.

7D and 60D … <3 CANON <3

september ;)

7D FF and 60D aps-c ;)

7D about 2100€
and 60D about 1400€

and hopefully more af-points!

+1 :D

throwing away 5d2 after a year.

sounds stupid…but who knows

What the heck’s a sensel??

come on aps-h will never come again…

romours romours romours…

canon is not stupid
they will bring some eos beetween
the 50D and 5D mark 2!

and i think about one aps-c and one ff :P

Don’t be so sure.

Hell must have frozen over when Canon went from 14.7 MP G10 to 10 MP G11.

LOL

Sensor pixel.

I think it would be awesome if Canon split the 5D line like they have the 1D line.

Rebrand the current 5DII as a 5DsII and let that be the landscape/studio camera, and have a another 5D II with a lower MP and high FPS for more sporting… But that would be difficult given there already is a 5D II. Should have thought ahead Canon!

Maybe that is what they are planning with rumored 7D… The 5DII being the little 1Ds and the 7D being the little 1D…

Well, CHEAPER than the 5D makes sense.

There is no APC-C bundle with a 28mm lens, standard consumer APS-C lenses always start at 17 or 18 mm.
All 1.6 bodies came with a 18-55.

Sure, if you want to pay for all that extra sensor you’re not going to use, have at it. But I’ll save my pennies for other toys.

Thanks Janne,

Actually, I was using a simpler method, using the crop factor equivalents.

APS-C = 1.6 crop factor, therefore FF is 1.6^2 = 2.56 times bigger than APS-C.

APS-H = 1.3 crop factor, therefore FF is 1.3^2 = 1.69 times bigger than APS-H.

Using the math above and fractions :D APS-H is 1.51 times bigger than APS-C.

I was pretty good at math in school :D

Ok, so if it’s FF what is the point with the 5DMKII… should it be discontinued ?

Also, is it possible to flip a FF mirror at 8fps ?

i want someting new^^

You can’t stop anonymous John, he/she/they is nothing if not persistent. Persistently so.

Google is your friend,

tatatataaaaaa … Crop with 28-135mm:

40D:

http://tanktops2flipflops.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/canon-eos-40d-front-image.jpg

50D:

http://www.letsgodigital.org/images/artikelen/6/eos-50d.jpg

Maybe where you live, but here in the US:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/580464-REG/Canon_2807B005_EOS_50D_SLR_Digital.html

Here’s a far fetched thought that could happen. What if, the 7D is a replacement for the 5DII and instead killing the 5DII Canon reduces it’s price to be in-line with the xxD series?

APS-C would be left for the consumer models. Though the only real issue is based on the image posted of the top of the shell, there’s a pop-up flash.

Even still it may be possible that Canon is going away from the xxD numbers 1 > 5 > 7. I just wish they say something sooner than later. I wonder if they’re waiting til PDN to make an announcement.

I agree, I think it will be a 1.6 crop camera. I doubt that it will be 18mp, I think it will stay at 15mp and I would be surprised if its 8fps, probably 7 imo.

If Nikon can do it with the D700, why can’t Canon do it two years later with the 7D?

But 18MP??? C’mon folks, get real. 12MP is more believable.

Dear, it’s, “Told by whom?”

I cant be the only “C” sensor on here that would consider a move to a larger sensor but that would want the larger sensor to support my EF-S lenses until I could afford to replace them. (

When Nikon put the “Crop-Mode” on the D3 a couple of years ago everyone thought it sounded great but the consensus seemed to be that there was a physical limitation in the EOS-EF design that prevented Canon from doing the same thing. (something would crash into something else?). I think most of the conversation at the time was always talking about FF. Does anyone recall what the limitation was or know if it would be possible to create an APS-H that could accept “C” lenses?

The limitation is the lens->mirror distance, and as some folks have had luck attaching a modified EF-S 10-22 to a 1D body, it may in fact be possible to allow their attachment if the desire is there corporately.

A lot of sense in the comments here, but a lot of nonsense as well.

I totally agree to the pixel density issue, pointed out by several people. 18Mp is really too tight in terms of pixel density…but 15 MP on APS-C has already been achieved and Canon is THE only brand having enough R&D capabilities and Assets to develop their own sensors (SOny must be pissed off to repeatedly be asked to redesign their sensors completely in a far better fashion just by following the spec by Nikon, for the a900 and D3X, for the a700 and D300…). Canon could to this again but I highly doubt it considering their recent outcome (Take in consideration the real demanding market, like photojournalists, and the come back to CCD and 10 MP for G11), even if I think it’s marginal.

APS-C? Out of question, it will put disorder in the XXD lineup if this is 7D.

APS-H? Yeah maybe as it was said before by Costache. Canon is well aware of the competition and is fully aware of the lack of their global lineup. People are still using the 10MP ultra fast 1D3, not for the speed (nearly topped by D3 if used properly), just for the focal range. APS-H has a huge success among sport shooter who don’t have too much use of very shallow depth of field (APS-H DoF is already good) There were rumors among pro sport shooter Canon won’t give up such a profitable population. Will the 7D be APS-H? good question…will there be a cheaper APS-H camera? I think definitely…but not now (3D?)

Full Frame? Honestly I don’t know, the sensor from 5d2 was an updated version of the 1dS Mk3, and wasn’t following the 18MP the rumors pretended the 5D2 would have. In asia, there was the same rumors. I think the 5d2 is a small step up of past generation of sensors, and that Canon did this while having not enough good results with the 16-18 Mp we were all talking about last year, and in reaction of Sony 24MP and to trump D700 with just 12MP. Canon has no consideration with numbers, if the DIGIC 5 is ready like the rumors said, it will be implemented no matter what the camera is. COnsidering that the Digic 4 is able to handle 5d2 21Mp at let’s say 3,5 fps, and considering that (having worked in computing technology helps, I did) there is generally a doubled processing capability between two generations of embedded processing unit, I think that all the next Canon’s with more than 15 Mp AND more than 6-7 fps will have DIgic 5, only one is enough (1dS was the exception with dual Digic 3, but it needed it for 21 Mp) an two are too expensive.

Finally for my analysis, I would consider lenses…Canon lenses are THe big problem now, that’s why they put a lot of efforts on new tech and new design for actual lenses. Canon is being blasted by the nikkor 14-24 which is a magnificent lense. Some of my medium-format-using-“Mamiblad Forever”-pals were puzzled with the tonal rendition and crispness of D3X with this lense. As I said, except for recent EF-S, the canon regular linup lenses are too old / shaby, and this even more obvions with amazing work from nikon recently. I really think the new 70-200 from nikon will be top notch. The L lenses are amazing, but not that much when compared to nikkor G lenses. The 16-35 II L (from 2006 only) is really raped by 14-24 from nikon (especially in the corners). Canon really needs to rethink the design and technology of the lenses,like the droopy design of 24-70 which kills the crispness with mechanical fatigue of the moving ball bearings after moderate use… But they can do it. Recent work with TS-E, is simply amazing. I know they are working on a 24-70L II with IS, but they have problems on the design AND the new coatings tech. Canon is always first on technology, and Nikon uses only proven try and tested design for lenses. Add to this that the production is not consistent. I am pissed off having to check the calibration of the lenses, even L…front focus and back focus, glass alignment. the “Canon Game” we are all aware of (“oooh I have a so good copy I am so happy !”).

Today, the lenses are problematics AND the only cheap ticket for IS zoom compatible with APS-H or FX is the 28-135…If you want my point, the 28-105 is far more crisp and good (and cheap!!) but no IS. It has been tested by French Magazine “Chasseur d’Image” as “surprisingly good lense on 5d2” and granted 5 stars (top grade). The picture with 7D and 24-105 is a photoshop, not-so-bad work, but I saw it already during last summer (and even before) waiting for 5D sucessor. My analysis is : The aim is to make the cheapest all-round ticket possible (so With IS). Canon lenses will come slowly (though I really hope I am wrong, I have high hopes for a revamped 17-40 f4, which was made 2002 or 2001, which could be a very good and cheap L UWA lense).

Do not think camera-wise (ok I am spotted, I am an engineer), but technology wise…I think the 18 MP full frame we heard about had not been cancelled.

IF the 18MP information is true : the sensor will be a full Frame…what for? we already have 5D2, pro still want APS-H (you won’t see anytime soon a change in the color of sport pro shooter), So? There will be another full frame camera, could be the 7D. if it’s wrong….then we have no clues finding out. More AF points? Yeah we need that definitely, time to change old 9 points…

So here is my take : There is sense in making the cheapest FF pack on the market…a lot of photographers would love that (A huge majority of freelance photographers are not rich, with poor personnal gear…usually 40D or D200 used to the rope and trying to get the most of their camera). There could be a Cheap FF, with a cheap kit (28-135 IS) with quite good AF and good spead. Canon will have to decide wether they want to regain market share the non pro segment, ot wether they prefer to show respect to the buyers of 5D2…honnestly, I think the first option.

Lense are not up to such a high density pixel as APS-C 15Mp…it’s has been proven by several tests online (but I doubt they checked focus accuracy and potential need of Micro adjustment). The best lense canon has is 17-55 IS USM, for APS-C. Too expensive, and still with drawbacks. There could be a step backward in terms of sensor between 50D and 60D. The 15Mp of the 50D were already really optimised.

Anyway, I think that Canon as awaken, and that the huge success of 5D2 is a relief because at this price point…it is still relevant comparing to the D700 (a great camera) and a900. If you have taken a look through a900 viewfinder OMG ! waw! It reminds me the old times! AF is a pity on the 5d2, really…So in terms of AF, any rumors on AF increase is possible.

18 MP are less demanding than 21…but only on FF…and then you consistently make a kit with the 28-135 IS…I think it’s a credible hypothesis, and this would be a real commercial sucess…And will push even more Canon to settle down to the Lens work !

Good evening everybody

APS-H is not faster than FF. Speed depends only on the MP count, not on the sensor size. And chips performance double each few years at the same power dissipation.

keep them rumors coming, at the end of the day we’ll what will rest

Like you said, they often throw away cameras after a year.

And if they release the 7D now (as a underspec’ed, cheaper 5d2) and the 3D next year as an upgrade to the 5d2 (+ conversion to pro lvl with weather sealing and pro af), the 5D2 will be old enough.

What canon is doing right now sure is very interesting.

We already know that Sony is probably coming with 2 new bodies soon.

Now, Nikon has to do something or else I’m going to switch to Canon. I need video in FF body.

Excellent analysis and I rather agree with you in bulk. I think you’d find the patent linked above, btw, given your background.

Sorry, no FF

i don’t have any ef-s lenses, but i can tell you that if you put a sigma 50-150mm 2.8 (designed for aps-c) on a 1dmk2n, it works fine mechanically. The vignetting is not bad at all, surely since “every” wedding photog adds vignetting to the image anyway. if i put my 17-50mm tamron (designed for aps-c) on my canon 1v FF film, the mirror will phyiscally hit the back of the lens.

ah,ah. Another messiah type of guy.
I suppose answering about Digic 5 would give out too much about your identity to the FBI ? :|

why would someone buy the Canon “7D” and not the new 5d MK II ???

Not unlikely.

2000D – 60D – 1D MKIV

No, going back from 15MP to 10MP was just a step back to sanity.

.
.
.

On second thought – you might be right. ;-)

With quoted resolution at 7680×4320, I would be quite surprised for it to debut in a compact. If it’s as good as the patent implies (acknowledging the patent could just be posturing), I really expect this to be debut in the ‘Price of Darkness’ 1D we’ve been hearing rumors about. Probably at a lower resolution to not put quite as much demand on the lines at first, but I think within 2 years it’ll be in everything above the Rebels for DSLRs and debut among compacts in the S and G lines.

You must be accountant – sometimes 10% error are just fine. ;-)

Aside from that, I sense we at least do agree on the principle of Costache’s calculation. So I don’t see any good reason to argue about details. ;-)

But JFTR, these are the corrected numbers:
– 18MP APS-C scaled to APS-H: 29,2MP; scaled to FF: 46,1MP
– 18MP APS-H scaled to APS-C: 11,1MP; scaled to FF: 28,4MP
– 18MP FF scaled to APS-C: 7,0MP; scaled to APS-H: 11,4MP

Don’t discount the relentless march of progress. The 5D2 is not going to be around forever (or even for much longer).

Besides, the 40D is both faster and cheaper than a 1Ds3 and, as the song goes, “two out of three ain’t bad.”

I don’t think APS-C is out of the question. Birders and sports shooters keep calling for APS-C with serious weather-proofing, better AF, more speed, etc. That would make it too expensive to be an xxD, but it could be an xD pro body. Maybe that’s the 7D and it is priced the same as a FF 5D2 (which hasn’t got the same build quality or AF). Then they slot a 3D FF compact body above the 5D2 (with similar spec to the 7D, save for the sensor) and drop the 5D2 price a bit. Meantime, the 1D/1Ds get boosted into Nikon D3x pricing territory. (“It’s more expensive, so it must be better.”)

Nikon have essentially done this. They stick the same sensor in different bodies (D700/D3) and different sensors in the same body (D300/D700). It works for them and it must save on parts.

Meantime, the 60D gets the expected bunch of updates (video, performance tweaks, etc.) and they drop the price. That would straddle the pricing of a Nikon D300s with a Canon 60D and 7D, all APS-C. Canon seem to like pitching their cameras into their competitors’ gaps, rather than competing like-for-like.

Expect this:

A body (whether a 60D or 7D) with a new WIDE sensor. Why? Because video in a FF body is an expensive waste of sensor area. The sensor is 3:2, but only a 16:9 crop is used.

Let’s call the new sensor format “APS-W”. It will be 14.8mm high, like Canon’s APS-C, but 26.3mm wide instead of just 22.2mm. Here is what it gives you:

1. Not much more expensive than APS-C, as it is not much bigger.
2. Native 16:9 resolution for widescreen video capture using all of the sensor.
3. Because it is wider and not taller, the mirror will not slap the back of an EF-S lens (suggesting it’s a 60D).
4. A 3:2 crop mode, but if you shoot stills in 16:9, your 24-XXXmm lens has an effective focal length of 33mm on the long axis instead of 38mm. Nice.
5. Fast, low-noise, 3×3 binning for 1920×1080 HD video would mean an 18.7MP sensor. They can sell it as an 18.7MP camera, even if the 3:2 crop still only uses 15.8MP.

APS-W is coming. I have seen it.

If this is a action/wildlife camer with an updated autofocus will it include the ability to autofocus with F8?

A high end, but not quite pro camera might want to support an advanced amerature budget that is forced to use extenders.

You know us too well

You have seen it in R&D labs or in your delusions of grandeur?

the trouble with speed has nothing to do with sensor size and everything to do with MP count so it doesn’t make sense to say they could never do 18MP at 8fps but could do it at APS-C, at least technically, now marketing may be another matter.

No way.
It might even be APS-C, although APS-H is certainly possible (the one bad thing about APS-H is the standard and wide lenses don’t match very well to APS-H).

+1

Well there isn’t in the basic sense that crop factor alone does nothing and it is all in the sensor density. BUT there is in a high-speed camera where it takes more processing power to support a given density as the sensor size goes up.

So for a speed camera they find the most MP they can push and then can spread that across APS-C,APS-H or FF and the smaller the sensor the more the effective reach at that total MP count as the density much obviously rise the smaller the sensor.

So yeah a FF 5D2 has more reach than a 10D or a 1D3, but that is only part of the potential issue.

I never knew I was a Debbie Digital… I feel so chic!

And as noisy as the 50D ?

FF sensor costs to much to drop it to $1400 or less for sure!! no way.

I think DIGIC are very inexpensive, even low-end little few dollar P&S use the a DIGIC.

Given a price similar to 5D2, naming and specs as indicated, it make sense that 7D will be APS-H. I suggest that it also will accept aps-c lenses in crop mode and the AF will autofocus down to f8. Then it will not compete with landscape photographing on 5DmkII, it will match both the Nikon D300s and 50D on APS-C, but give something more that will give uservalue for a premium price.

Canon will try to launch something that will tempt Canon APS-C users to pay more for a camera, like with 5D2. Production wise they can reuse existing AF design from 1D in a downscaled version.

For me as a 40D user, I would gladly pay more for a precise and better tracking autofocus for sports and nature to match my longe teles. Such a value proposition would be tempting, like I’m also tempted by the Nikon 300D, but don’t have the Nikon lenses. I would also be tempted to buy more full frame wide angles and after a while supplement with a newer fullframe 5D3. Makes sense for Canon, makes sense for me.

I don’t think APS-C is out of the question. Birders and sports shooters keep calling for APS-C with serious weather-proofing, better AF, more speed, etc. That would make it too expensive to be an xxD, but it could be an xD pro body.

I fully agree: I do need an APS-C sensor, and if I do not get it from Canon, I will have no other choice than to get such a body from Nikon. I will maybe not fully move to Nikon because of my lenses, but it will cost me less money than buying a 600/4L which, in everycase, I cannot transport in my backbag because I am not Hulk …
So still waiting for an APS-C !

Gosh those would be the specs that I want! Fullframe?

18mp
8fps
19 AF Points

whooohoooo YES !! hope its true! anyone know a price estimation?

This definitely has my interest. I’ll be interested to see final specs and price point.

My 5DmkII is trucking along, but its hard to not be interested in whats hot and new in the DSLR world!

Here’s what’s coming, and the logic behind why.

60D: The 50D is kind of in no-man’s land sitting between the Rebel T1i and D90 on the low end, and the D300(s) on the high end. Prosumers looking at the xxD range are expecting, at the very least, improved image quality (read: lower noise) and better auto-focus than the model below it, and the 50D just didn’t deliver. I think if Canon offered a one stop improvement in noise, comparable AF and features to the D300s, and priced it around $1400, then it would sell like hotcakes. Basically, it should compete more with the D300s than the D90, but at a more attractive price. The 60D will fill this void.

7D: This one seems virtually 100% these days, but no one really knows what the specs will be. I think Canon and Nikon can both see that FF is the future for the prosumer segment (read: xxD and higher), and this will be the first salvo in the battle for those customers that are willing to spend more than what a 50D goes for, but doesn’t want to splurge for a 5DII. The ideal price-point for this lower-cost FF seems to be in the $1800-$2000 range, and that’s where I imagine the 7D will hit. People may say this will cannibalize the 5DII sales, but Canon’s not dumb. They see that there is *much* more volume at this lower price-point, and that will only help bring the price of FF down. It’s the same thing they did with the Rebel line. As for the sensor, it doesn’t really make sense for the 7D to use the same 21MP sensor as the 5DII, so I believe it would be in the 12MP (improved 5D sensor) to 18MP (based on rumors) range. To me, the 12MP option makes the most sense, as it would compete directly with the D700, but at a much lower price. I personally think 16MP is the sweet spot, but I’m tired of waiting for it. I think Canon will also look to improve the auto-focus, video, and other minor complaints from the 5DII, and while current 5DII owners will feel a little short-changed, I’m sure they’ll fix that next year with a 5DIIN or something.

As for what Nikon will do in return, I would imagine that they will release the D700x in October at a sub-$3000 price-point (to compete with the 5DII), and reduce the price of the D700 to around $2000 to compete with the 7D.

We’ll see soon enough.

I bet the 5D2 will be replaced Spring of 2010.

I specifically told a Canon rep that I was not interested in the 5D2 due to old AF system, low FPS and lack of proper weather seals. He said thanks for the feedback.

Odd… I made a thorough post a while back and now its gone. Anyone else ever see their posts disappear?

http://www.nivell10.com/seccion.asp?seccion=5&titulo=Fotograf%EDa

Speed also depends on the ability of the mirror to move that fast. It’s harder for FF than for APS-H.

That’s an aftermarket kit, not a boxed Canon kit.

Depends .. if the 7D is a APS-H or APS-C.

agreed.

coming from a XXD series .. any EF-S lenses, you can still use them. plus any L lenses, primes, etc that you have purchased for your kit, immediately get a FOV benefit.

if this body is going against the D300 .. that alone as far as compatability and capability will make an excellent selling feature.

18Mp APS-H .. 12Mp APS-C .. would be a perfect combination of pixel density for both existing “moving up” candidates from the XXD series, and also provide a serious compelling second body option for 1D users.

Assuming canon can keep the noise down to the same as the D700 for “image noise”, not per pixel .. then it even matches up well against the D700 .. providing again, the best of both worlds as a compromise .. the D700 with a 5Mp DX crop doesn’t provide anywhere close to a “move up” category as a 18Mp APS-H sensor would deliver.

Interesting. Bling Translation for the text on the photo: CMOS sensor, CCD 8.5 backflushing frames / sec. Full frame sensor.

+1

You’ve finally seen the light.

+2

wrong!!! its a 4×6 inch sensor… the direct print button can’t handle a crop

i imagine that the BB price is (as often is the case) just a placeholder, and is subject to radical change (it, e.g., could be a kit price).

if they can control the noise, offer a considerable AF-quality increase (including AF point increase, spread out over more of the frame), and maintain or even increase the speed of the xxd line, i’d buy one to go with my 5D2. cheers.

u r right on

another amateurs are dumb post… good one John, you’re so smrt.

http://atinyblip.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/canon-eos-30d-front3.jpg

even has a 17-30 like in this photo.

The BB price for the G11 was $599. The Canon MSRP is $499. So, yes, the BB price for the 7D body and kit could be subject to change…or not. My guess is that Canon USA hasn’t yet finalized the MSRPs for the 7D body and kit.

Also for me the dual card is a pro thing, backup during weddings in case a card does bad, don’t want a mad client.

APS-H is dead

That’d be a dream camera come true for me! Perfect balance of everything . . .

it isn’t going to be off as much as the wishfull fantasies in this comment section. plan on it being “close”.

that makes sense

Canon’s marketing strategy will not allow them to make a camera with every pro feature and sell it for under 3K. so forget canon version of d700.

7D at FF with 18 MP and 8fps with the upgraded AF as the original rumor indicated would be hard to beat. It would get my $$. Only thing missing would be AF at f8 so my 500 with 2X could AF. If it is APS-H the 18 MP would be a noise stretch. Hate to do high in camera noise suppression and lose detail the 18 MP can provide.

I hope what ever is coming sets the new standard for digital imaging.

you’ll never see a fast FF from Canon unless they update the 1dIV with a FF sensor

Is this person on dpreview a known source or something? Why are his comments notable?

ok well thats what i thought this wouled be the first time i have been wrong

I told you to stop harassing people on the web, ok?

same with John sadly

Probably true…

The 16×9 option makes sense as some people are more interested in big format wide HD video than the still function, or even faster f.p.s. burst coverage. 7.5
f.p.s. is a quarter fraction of 30 f.p.s., so that 15 f.p.s.
streaming on-line or 30 f.p.s. Ultra D-video could be emulated from a 7.5 burst rate. Remember, most low-end HD video is taken with a tiny 1/3 inch sensors (or 3), which is not very satisfactory at the same $3000- price point. HD will gradually become accepted as a “must have” feature, and these SLRs will be able to shoot Ultra-HD wider frames, in 7.5 motion, and perhaps even sync sound, with a a new file format. Hell, I’d gladly pay $5grand for such a camera!

“Ultra-HD wider frames, in 7.5 motion”

are you referring to a ratio like 2.35:1 at a resolution of 4K?
if so, it will be a few years till that will happen,
you need high bandwidth processing and tons of storage.(in Tb)

Sorry darling, but this is the only way i can tell people…..

18mp & 8fps yes, but the 7D is also a 1.6 crop.

Oh yeh, the SD and CF cards are a big reason for buying a camera….

Dariel, this is a legendary post. Thank you for your detailed analysis. I have a lot of respect for you. Are you on Twitter? I would like to subscribe to your feeds if you are.

“Delusions of grandeur” is the wrong phrase in this context; it’s just a plain old delusion.

Actually, there was mention on North Light Images a few weeks ago about an “S35” sensor in an upcoming Canon DSLR. “S35” is “Super 35”, a wide-screen film format. Delusion or not, if HD video becomes a big deal in DSLRs, then matching the sensor aspect ratio to that format would be a logical advance to ensure maximum picture quality. It’s already starting to happen in some of the compact cameras from other manufacturers. Also, people are making less prints and viewing images more and more on monitors and TVs, where 16:9 is dominating new sales.

there will arrive a 1D mark IV in september ;)

believe it or not^^

i hope the 7D or whatever its really going to be isnt 1.6 sensor.. Canon needs to get rid of EF-S already.. those lenses really arent any good anyways for a photographers if they are going to be upgrading to 1D series or 5D series..

Not so much take as switch.

5D II -7MP + 3fps + 4 focus points = 7D (for $2700 maybe cheaper) would make a lot of people happy.

+1,000

lack of imagination .. full frame would be difficult, but APS-H has a smaller mirror, and therefore, it would simply be a mechanical movement adjustment to allow enough clearance.

APS-H has a mirror width of around 18.5mm, versus around 15mm with APS-C.

do explain to me how one moves the mirror and still has the lens focus the image in the pentaprism at the same distance as the sensor? I really don’t care to just trust my AF if my viewfinder shows me blurry stuff

I’m an amateur… and have calculated DOF mathematically. And because I do mostly macro work I would hate for the 60D to be FF or APS-H, because I really enjoy the 1.6X magnification. For macro work it really helps, especially if you don’t have enough money for a 180mm macro and your subjects include venomous snakes such as mambas and cobras… The difference in quality doesn’t really weigh up to the advantages from being a bit further away!

But if they have a 60D with about 15MP and more AF-points I’ll be upgrading in an instant. If they also bring out a 7D … well that is for someone else to get excited about!

True… This will APS-h 1D mark IV.

It was interesting to exchange analysis with you all on this thread. I agree with some analysis below on the “cheap FF Pack with good AF” but…I doubt that it will be as fully packed like 5D2 (speaking of video feature)…but Canon already did it from 1Ds3 to 5D2. A lot of photograph are simply not interested in video at all…

Experience usually shows that going from Photo work to director of photography work is a huge issue, and from director of photography to director/sequence composer is simply as hard. Some have the talent, the others not, and a lot are simply seeing their camera as simply a tool for their composition work. That’s why you can experience very strange situations when you are with a photographer friend in a expo, and that he litterally cried of joy on a B&W picture, with a lot of grain, no focus, a vague silouhette of a person with clipped light from behind…well…a missed shot clearly for the mundane world. Real photography art and composition work are outside tech progress, and some are still praising the large format (with wooden boxes) as an unreplaceable medium of artistic expression. In photo school you learn to use the tool as a brush and a sketch for art creation. That’s partially why the great French Photographer Henry Cartier Bresson stopped photography at the end of his life to go beyond and went to pure drawing (with pencil and sketchbook). These photographers, who are for most part of them, working in agencies, don’t spend time to much on a camera and are just focus on key feature, simply because the camera is not theirs, but the company’s. They can switch “Oh today I take the D3X number 28, see you tomorrow”. Camera is just a tool for them and they just focus on “How can I simpy raise the Iso to capture more quickly important shots?” Agency work, which is a really important target for both brand (Nikon and Canon) is not focusing on the advanced features and delicacies the camera could have. Raw feature like viewfinder, AF performance, Iso noise…is all that they consider…Finally a good compact camera could do all the agency work…This kind of photographers don’t care of special feature, they want to keep it simple and effective…That’s exactly why the G10 has so much success in agencies today and exactly why the G11 didn’t obey to the mass market law of “more of something”…but rather obeyed to agencies expectations…low noises capabilities, High Iso, huge dynamic, we don’t care about MP…10 is enough. And finally it’s ok ! This camera will sell like never before in Agencies and serious amateurs (like me) who could be annoyed to bring a truck of lenses during a great hiking in the mountain. Just a sec, have you all seen the Flash sync on this camera ??!? DPreview must be wrong or it’s a HUGE advance : 1/2000th of second?? on a compact??

We are talking about serious amateurs / semi pro / pro second camera. The entry level beginner have all the 1000D TI/ or 500D(which is a camera with huge potential, with L lenses on it !), with all the modes. Serious categories are more than happy with the software suite, which save 200$ at least, from Canon.

Frelance photographer are different. They can work on a various and broad range of subjects and the hardware is theirs. They are truly “samourais” or “Ronin” (Samurai with no master) and the camera has here a different role for them, very similar to the blade of a samourai. They are very much concerned on the state of it and the maintenance, they rely on it, they are interested in taking the most of it, they go into details and features, and most importantly they don’t have many different cameras. They cannot rely on the tech support department of the agency for a camera, they really take care and want to have a “good package”. More than this, this type of photographer (if they produce good pictures, if they feel ok with the camera too) can enlarge their collection of lenses, flashes, etc.

For a part of photographers, the true pro photographers, they simply don’t care on video. It’s the enthusiasts (but not pro), who care of the video feature, or the “measurbators” (c)Ken Rockwell :-). ultimately, the video users can be interested. He can be interested in what the DSLR can bring (wide angle, Hi quality picture, incredible low light capability), but he already master the capture of great sequences to adapt to the restriction of Video on DSLR (hard and sloppy AF, Bad Sound…). Commercially it make sense to make a lower level FF Canon DSLR, stuffed with better AF, Quicker frames (6-8 fps), but lower MP AND no video. with that, canon will rationalize it’s lineup, especially compared to 5D2, but in fact it could as well be different. If the MP count is correct (16-18), considering the bad response to the announcement of D300s, the lack of breakthru features of video capability, and considering that Live view is now a must have…video is just a small step away technically AND it could trump nikonian who waited for D300s for Full HD video (I know a lot, and a lot of disappointed ones). So I don’t see “this” (let’s call “this”) camera be underfeatured this way, the lower MP count will be enough for them to differentiate and the 5D will be positionned as Non sport photography, vidéo, protrait, and landscape only. The “other one” could fill the gap and propose a more balanced camera (like XXD line, but in full frame).

All the talk of new design sensor or revolutionnary sensors is, I think, a little bit too early. This type of sensors is far away from being optimal and you have to make difference between “this design could therothetically be at least the same perf” speaking of the potential performances of the design (but which will require years before blooming in a really interesting fashion), and “this design improves now the noise reduction by 20%…I think Canon will keep the projects and research in store…waiting for a good projet that could really make use of such a new featured sensor. In Brief, not now (I think)

I agree with the need of globally better featured cameras (Weather sealing…)both for APS-C and the rest.

We have some elements, some rumors, some pictures (like the piece of plastic with the new on/off swithc). But Canon has released some very strange choices before, I think we cannot seriously go further than we all went here so far, simply because we don’t know what Canon (and nikon) pay inquiring and analysis companies for, and they could ultimately base their strategy on trumping the other, at the last minute…

All we can do is to become friends with people from Nikonrumors (yeah !) and share insights and analysis. This way we could take into account the rumors from nikon and guess how they could lead to Canon reaction in terms of Product (And reversely for Nikonians!).

good evening everybody!

Nice writing, Dariel :)
About G11’s flash sync speed of 1/2000s: it is possible. G11 has an electronic shutter, isn’t it ?

Questions for you folks:

(1) Does canon have the 1-series production capacity to update BOTH the 1DIII AND 1DsIII at the same time? Is lack of production capacity why the releases dates of 1D and 1Ds series cameras have been out of sync for Mark I, Mark II, Mark III ???

(2) Does Canon have the xxD capacity to update BOTH the 50D (to 60D) AND release a new 7D (FF or 1.3x) AND support continued production of the 5DII and rebels all at the same time?

I don’t know what people are using video on dslr’s for…. unless you are shooting pro vids for clients or music video clips,all I expect is some vacation home movies….hell I’m sure it’s capable of that!!…albeit one that is good under low light and in HD!!

http://www.cinema5d.com

good writing indeed, especially about the samurai and ronin :) . if I recall, the sync speed is possible because the shutter is not a plane but circular (just like the iris of the f/stop). so even when it is half way opening, it still give equal light to the ccd, unlike the plane shutter; it only gives half of the ccd light.

Actually, thats not true. frame rate depends very much on sensor size. A larger sensor requires a larger mirror, and flipping a larger mirror up and down at high speeds becomes more difficult. DSLR designers go to great lengths to dampen camera vibrations from mirror movements.

You are mostly right, in that frame rate does depend on the processing speed of the data on the sensor, but there are other constraints.

100% correct information!
will be interesting to see how it performs!

nah.. that’s old. wheres the mic holes.

i expect that ‘something else’ will be a 1000D upgrade. ho hum.

True as the day.

A question for you – why does your question (1) have two questions in it? Why not just list three questions in total?

really?

anyway, we will see whos a clown once the cam is released (if it was ever released that is).

EF-S? Vigneting?

i am abit confused about prism/mirror box on that photo, i feel like that prism box is real.

What of it? EF-S will work fine for a 3:2 stills and there can be an automatic crop mode for video if an EF-S is attached. How about 1080p on EF and 720p on EF-S?

Where does it say 1.6 APS-C sensor?

The 5D2 is the most popular EOS ever, stores can barely keep them in stock even after a year. All the cameras you site being replaced early were slow movers, and the xxxD line are replaced on a yearly basis anyway so how does that prove anything? The xxD line is replaced in under two years or sooner anyway. The 1Dn was a minor update. So I don’t see any precident for a 5D3 after a year. Also, they would never drop the 5D line and replace it with a 7D. If this rumor is true, it’s a new camera that may or may not even share the same body as the 5D – though probably not if the pop-up flash pics are the 7D.

It wont happen. The 1Ds4 will be $9000, 32 MP, 2K or better video. The 1D4 will be super fast, 12 to 15 fps, and lower MP probably 21 mp or less and blow the doors of these 7D specs. They are all different animals and target markets.

If that’s true than Nikon could not have the FF D3 and D700, which they do, so your premise is incorrect.

There is no chance APS-C will be replaced prior to APS-H. They have a whole lens line dedicated to APS-C and most of the competition offers APS-C.

Why would 5D2 owners be worried about a lower MP fast FF body? They’d just buy it too, as I would. It’s a great complementary camera to the 5D2 or a 2nd body for the xD/Ds series. APS-H is going buh bye – it will not be on the 1D4 or the 7D because the competition is FF and the lenses are made for FF cameras or APS-C.

FF

easy .. the mirror the last time I checked an SLR .. “pivots” on the way up out of the way. when it “pivots” up does the EF-S protruding element become a problem with the mirror – it hits it.

it’s a pretty simply mechanical task to have that mirror when it pivots “up”, shift “back” slightly so it clears the EF-S element.

APS-C to APS-H would only have to have around a 1.5mm shift “back” or so for it to clear.

alot of people have mounted 10-22 on 1D series bodies .. it doesn’t clear the mirror at around 10-12 mm which would indicate it’s very close.

How exactly is it more difficult?

Once the design is known it is just parts and production assembly like any other thing.

You’re assuming it’s more difficult and therefore more expensive, but unless it has some requirement like Florite in L lenses that is more expensive to make there is no basis to believe a fast FF requires quantum nano partical accelerated tritatium or some such thing especially given the D700 is very fast and moderately priced.

AA, BB, CC

I do have the spec sheet here, but I didn’t want to confirm untill someone else let the cat out of the bag! camera is 1.6x just to clear up confusion…

I went to BB store, today, to buy 5DII, but they don’t have it in stock. I had coupon for %12 off and asked for rain check. The manager check a comp and told me they will not have that camera any more.

Ha anyone noticed that on B&H, Adorama, Abes of Maine and several others the 5D MK2 has been back ordered for over a week???

I prefer DD

Get a life John. Oh the best way to get a life is…

USE A DIRECT PRINT BUTTON!

Mmm and “threads” on Canon Rumors are different…how?! :P

And no.. I have not held 1. I don’t think it will replace the 50D, I think it will sit nicely between the 50D and 5DmkII for the time being.

see this:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1D_MkIV.html

I hope so

The xxD series are generally replaced quickly, especially given the yearly updates of the xxxD series if they didn’t update the xxD the Rebel would soon be higher spec than the xxD – and that can’t happen. The minute you see a xxxD come out that is close in specs to the xxD you can bet a new xxD is coming soon. So a 60D on the heals of the T1i/500D is a no brainer. The 5D series and 1D series get updated less frequently. The 1D3 has been outdated for some time and it’s still not been updated. No way a 5D3 is coming any time soon.

Says who?

…hehe just kidding around

Here’s my credit card info…

5D2 is being used on the Dog Whisperer TV show, probably a lot more shows, you can spot the footage easy compared to the HD camcorder shots that can’t blow the background out. I just shot a video event with the 5D2, have more jobs lined up I plan to use it on.

i Like:

a)

b)

(…)

Crop a crop sensor? hahaha, sure, and they could even crop it down to micro4/3 size too…but seriously, the whole concept for putting EF-S on APS-H is to recover the wide angle and yet you’d have to crop it more to make it work…problem is the glass diameter is not wide enough so you’d get vinetting or you’d have to crop it down to APS-C size anyway so you’re better off just getting an APS-C body.

all in! i bet anonymous life! and my 40ds direct print button

waiting for the new Canon EOS 5D Mark III as 7D but more than 45 AF points, New DiGiC V, 100% VF and Dual Slof.

Thanks for making the effort to make clear the terminlogy to the beginners!