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CR1 Update on ISO
Native ISO 25,600 (boost to 102,400)
Full Frame? [CR1]
Another person has written in saying it will be full frame. This is the only person that has said it will be. Everyone else is saying APS-H
Cost? $4999 USD
AF Points
We've been told the camera will have 19 selectable AF points. The camera will most definitely have more like the 1D Mark 3. 19 Selectable may also be a mode the camera is capable of.
Latest Specs (1D Mark V seems to be the moniker now)
The camera has been under serious lock and key and I'm waiting for CR3 type stuff.
16mp APS-H
12fps
1080p @ 24/25, 30 & 60 fps
Ergonomic Changes
19 Selectable AF points
Video Oriented Accessories
Another email claims the 1Dv will have a whole host of video related accessories launched with it.
The camera will be shipping at the end of November worldwide.
Pro photographer quote to us
“This camera is Canon taking back its spot as the king of technology in digital SLR's”
Great quote, I'm waiting for some elaboration. :)
Tomorrow I'll be busy I'm sure.
cr
Mark V, wow, they’re skipping IV!
like the powershot S series, they also skip 4
we’ll see, it’s only a CR1.
or maybe they have their digic 5 in it thats why they called it MK V.
I hope it’s not to expensive, I was wishing for FF, but it might be close enough.
I’ll be waiting till next year anyways, I hope the 3D comes in the spring.
I just sold my 1dsM3 in prep for this, It better have a big buffer and a lot of af points~
Just over CDN $4K
APS-H! YAY!
yeah, “Canon taking back its spot as the king of technology in digital SLR’s” and its a crop APS-H? Hardly.
but if it’s as popular as I think it will be, it will go north of that very quick.
Where is the 102,400 ISO?
“yeah, “Canon taking back its spot as the king of technology in digital SLR’s” and its a crop APS-H? Hardly.”
“DSLR technology” is not tantamount with sensor size only David. It’s also a lot of other things, importantly signal processing. I have no idea what the camera will be like but please try not to pass judgement on something that you know nothing about as yet and do not pass your personal prejudices. Even if the camera will be “only” having an –H sized sensor it still no doubt provides an important stepping stone to the future FF DSLR.
“Where is the 102,400 ISO?”
In night vision goggles where it belongs. I think that two direct-print buttons would be a more useful feature on that this sort of grainy sensitivity.
ISO 12800 in D3s is usable only for 4″x6″ prints. 102400 is very unusable. why put it?
I suppose skipping the 4 is a nudge towards the Asian market where “4” is a no-no?
The number 4 is considered unlucky in Japan. This is most likely the reason to jump to the Mark V.
Bleh on APS-H. Don’t see the point.
Oh sorry didn’t know you used one already.
And so should we stop wanting advanced features making previously impossible shots now possible? I am grateful that Nikon is pushing the envelope and would be disappointed if Canon didn’t. If YOU don’t want to use it, then don’t.
ughh just make it fullframe some people want wide angle and decent fps without shooting aps-c crop
And yet we have a Digic 4…
You are dead to me.
Oh yes, I suppose this guy knows how to use the tool correctly, having shot actual events at 12800 with the body and published 100% samples.
Watch Canon come out with 102,400 ISO and everybody will be saying “it so great to be able to use it when any image will do… Canon is the best!”
http://www.studioimpressionsphotography.com/blog/
:~(
Thanks for your personal prejudices and passing judgement about my opinions, lol. I dont think APS-H crop sensor makes Canon king of DSLR technology. You can think whatever you want and its fine by me.
“Some people” should realize that this is an action camera, geared for use with telephoto lenses – NOT wide angle use.
Still no stealth camera phone shots of parts of the new 1D :-( the 7D pics where heaps of fun.
The neutral observer is eagerly awaiting confirmed specs for this new camera. He feels that 2010 is going to be a good year for Canon.
Could they not do a full frame, with a crop mode?
If you dont get the point then its not the camera for you
+1
Canon will be king of APS-H !
lol exactly
If it’s really a 19 point AF like the 7D, then it’s nice to see Canon borrow a page from Nikon book. Design the best AF system you can have and offer it in as many bodies as you can afford. Nikon did it over 2 year ago with their 51 point AF and since then, it has seen action in no less than 6 bodies and will be probably stay current for at least 1 more year.
12fps is pretty impressive and will surely appeal to sports photographers. Thought that Canon had lost the fps war to Nikon since the new D3s shoots 11fps but like anything else it’s a seesaw battle. Personally, I don’t see the point of APS-H, it should be either full frame or APS-C.
do they call it a Digic 4 in Japan?
sure they could, question is will they
They call it a Digic Kiss.
J/K
“Some people” agree with you.
Good for you.
I use a D300 at work, I really can’t stand the Nikon AF system, I don’t find it responsive enough… My friend just got a 7D, by far the best AF system I’ve used thus far :-)
It’s like people who say the 3.9fps of the 5DII isn’t good enough because they NEED 5fps. 1.1 fps makes all the difference I suppose. LOL
Nikon beats Canon by 1fps. LET’S SWITCH. double LOL.
12 fps over 10 fps = more time deleting IMHO, but it sounds so darn COOL!
triple LOL.
Yay!
Canon on top again!
“some people” are cool.
“Some people” aren’t.
What is your basis for saying APS-H makes Canon Not the king of DSLR technology?
Actually the D3s is 9 FPS FF, and can only hit 11 FPS in DX crop mode, so they aren’t even getting 12 MP images at 11 FPS.
btw, the 5D2 doesn’t give you 3.9 fps in AI Servo mode, more like 2.5.
As a sports shooter, I don’t want a FF chip in the 1D; APS-H is perfect. I have a 5dm2 for FF goodness, and need my 1D to be a tele-shooting cropped-frame warrior.
I guess a masking option on a FF sensor wouldn’t be bad, but that doesn’t seem to be Canon’s style.
The D700 is 8 fps with a grip, The 5DII is 3.9.. with a grip…
why skip the “IV”?
Crop sensor’s are not as good as full frame sensor IQ potential, there’s no lenses designed for 1.3 crop so you can’t regain your wide angle, its only a minor boost on the tele end, and Nikon’s D3s is FF with dynamic crop, if they wanted to be king they should make it FF and take on Nikon head on.
sure would have been nice if Canon’s 5D2 grip gave it a boost in FPS.
4 sounds like “die” in Japanese (and Chinese for that matter) that’s why it’s “unlucky”.
well, assuming the CR1 rumor specs are true, you’d be better off with a 7D, more MP and bigger crop factor than this 1DV. APS-H is pretty lame for a pro body given the D3s is FF with dymanic crop giving you 9 FPS FF and 11 FPS in DX crop. I would not mind a 9 FPS FF with 12 FPS 1.3 crop mode.
Correct me if I’m wrong but as mentioned above, the number 4 is considered unlucky in Japan. From what I have been told they use the same word for death as they use for the number four.
Ken Rockwell is never wrong.
Ken Rockwell has been know to get one or two things right occasionally. Those days are known as “fur-coats-needed-in-hell” days.
LOL.
Yep, you’re right on both accounts. Same in China.
lets see what canon have in their magic box. what if the IQ of this crop sensor match or much better than crap iso 102800 of D3s. we can’t judge it until we don’t have it. oh and i’m judging the D3s, lol… lets wait and see you FF lovers….
spec is bs. it’s mark IV and it’s lovely
of course Canon can produce good IQ on a crop, 7D is quite impressive imo, but FF would be better, and we’re talking about a flagship pro camera here. If they want to be king, and not just on par with others, they have to step it up. I’m not saying the next 1D will not be a good camera. But they don’t get the “king” title for just a decent competitor to the D3s.
iso 102400 is nice if you can have a usable shot of at least 4×6 prints. haven’t use a D3s yet (i’m a canon guy, that’s why nikon hates me and don’t send me a stuff to criticize) lol…
have you use a D3? in crap mode i mean crop mode, can you see a 100% viewfinder? or only portion of the viewfinder? how many %?
read from the top
seems that it’s not the camera for you but OURS…
4 being unlucky is a true cultural issue.
But “1D V” would make sense also because it will have VIDEO.
Clever marketing pun.
doesn’t mean Canon could not do it better, rather have that then being stuck with the sensor crop.
you want to claim a CR1 rumor as yours have it, its still vapor-ware.
In China the number 4 is almost pronounced the same way as the word “death”.
Maybe in Japan this is the same.
1Ds is flagship
“Crop sensor’s are not as good as full frame sensor IQ potential”
That is just plainly not true, we have been down this road before.
Show us the high fps FF that Canon has????
Maybe the 3D if/when it comes.
And what about a cheap FF??? @7D price point.
so you’re saying Canon is going to be king of DSLR’s based on a non-flagship body? lol
It’s debatable as to which is the flagship, or both the 1D and 1Ds are the flagship models with different target markets. Try shooting 10 FPS on a 1Ds.
It will be definetily 18 MP ! Crop 1.3 !
Was testet last Week in Britain !
I am a sport photosgrapher and I use wide angle lenses a lot. This is why I’d prefer a FF camera. I can always crop image down to get APS-H-like angle of view, but there are no really ultra wide lenses suitable for APS-H :(
This thing better be a serious camera with some real gains in convenience and productivity:
Built-in Geotagging. (It should be a crime for any SLR, especially pro-slr, to not have this.)
Built-in voice memo.(It should be a crime for any camera to not have this.)
Built-in pop-up flash.
A-Dep function.
Fantastic IQ.
Fantastic focus system.
4 in China, Japan and Korea pronounced with the same meaning ‘DEATH’
That’s why some hotel won’t have 4th floor.
Why not just use a flash at a wedding reception? Just because you can get a shot at 12800 ISO that might pass for a newspaper shot doesn’t mean a wedding client is going to be happy with a grainy 8×10.
The facts are the facts. Sure you can screw up a FF sensor enough to make a crop sensor seem to have better IQ or by comparing an old FF sensor to new generation crop sensor, but there’s no question you can get better IQ out of larger sensor if produced at the same level of technology.
(quote)Built-in pop-up flash.(/quote)
Now i know you’re taking the pi55
pop-up flash, oh please
D3: it has viewfinder masked when in cropped mode. I’d imagine 100%.
Wack.. i wouldnt sell my 1dmk2 for this.
Very underwhelming, esp for their 50th anniver
I so agree with David. It’s just logic!
What facts David? There are no undisputed, objective facts that state so.
Sensor size has NOTHING to do with its IQ. Think about it this way – image two almost perfectly identical sensors populated with photo cells of the same size and pitch. There is just one difference between them – one is FF, the other one is say APS-H sized. Pray, do tell, assuming using identical lenses which one will provide its users with better quality pictures – the FF one with badly vignetting, soft corners or the crop one that hits the lenses’ sweet spot?
You are entitled to your opinion David and nobody forces you to buy or use crop-sensor cameras but please stop misleading others by spruiking your own ideas and preferences as undisputed facts.
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
Double Digic V, double CF 90mb/s [SANDISK EXTREME PRO] and RAW process please!
…and AF that works
“Built-in Geotagging. (It should be a crime for any SLR, especially pro-slr, to not have this.)”
It’s just a gadget that would increase the price, a lot of people have no use for it, it should forever remain an option unless its price is close to negligible.
“Built-in voice memo.(It should be a crime for any camera to not have this.)”
Another gadget, I can see how some found it useful but it’s definitely not something that would be used by everyone. As long as it was price-neutral I would have nothing against it, I would just not use it.
“Built-in pop-up flash.”
Are you kidding? It’s quite the opposite, no pro camera needs a built-in flash. It’s not required in a studio environment and does not provide enough control in other situations.
“A-Dep function.”
Good one, and more direct-print buttons.
yeah!!!
It seems to be about different definitions. Yes, using exactly the same sensel size, bigger sensor gives only more megapixels. BUT – using the same technology a bigger sensor could improve image quality by having bigger sensels while retaining the MPs the same compared to the cropped sensor.
That will make the 5d one time unlucky..
and the 7d two times unlucky…
and the 40D wins with 10 times unlucky! :p
From lots of my friends who are sport photographers, non of them like the full frame because of the ammount of magnification they lose as a result. I shoot soccer with 7d & 300mm. They have to do the same with 1d and 400mm. If a full frame 1d was introduced then they have to use a 500mm F2.8 lenses. I don’t know if that even exists. In terms of ISO, they are satisfied with what they have now. So, If canon takes those opinions then I don’t believe that they will be releasing a full frame.
Having said that, several pros have stated that they will consider a full frame if it had a crop mode with a good amount of MP left for them to use after cropping..
Those specs are what someone who works for a major agency mentioned to me. They are expecting a shipment in Australia late this year or very early 2010.
1D will be their 3nd stepping stone to be the king, they were not saying that 1D will be the king, they say CANON will be the king in technology. their 1st stepping stone was the 5D MK II then 2nd was the 7D.
very well said, +10000000
+1 david, see in some point of view i agree with you.
nobody can, in crop mode especially in 1.6 crop mode the lens blocks the incoming light to the portion of the lens, software cropping is very much better than in camera cropping. 12MP FF = 5MP 1.6 crop mode. thats only good for 4×6 prints if it is at max ISO of 1600 on D3 or else it will be grainy. by the way I’m an engineer, part time photographer.
portion of the sensor not lens
If Canon only ever made the 1D as a FF, no-one would be wanting or asking for a cropped sensor.
Nikon gives you everything in the D3, FF and 1.2 crop.
FF also gives you a much bigger viewfinder image considering Canon uses the same magnification on both the 1D and 1Ds.
and 1.3 crop. lol….
“If Canon only ever made the 1D as a FF, no-one would be wanting or asking for a cropped sensor.”
Says you, care to back it up with some market research please?
“Nikon gives you everything in the D3, FF and 1.2 crop.”
Go buy one than go to the Nikon forum to complain about that camera or some feature that is missing from it but is implemented in some Canon.
“FF also gives you a much bigger viewfinder image considering Canon uses the same magnification on both the 1D and 1Ds.”
Bigger – yes. Brighter – not by much, law of diminishing returns is here at work.
is their any rumor that 1D is FF? i can’t any. their is 1 CR3 that it is 1.3
only 1 day till announcement date without any CR3 (I MEAN 1D5 CR 3) = WON’T ANNOUNCE
:(
wow, your D3 is unique. check it again, the specs tells that it is 97% in crop mode.
Fu..! Why APS-H?!? Wondering why Canon would insist with no FF while photographers are waiting for 1D FF.
the D3s 1.2x crop mode the coverage of the visor is 97% and DX mode is 97 %.
wouldn’t it be funny it, yet again, this rumor proves baseless!!
we’ve had so many “cries of wolf” i’ll believe it when i see the official press release.
still, here’s hoping
http://www.nikon-image.com/jpn/products/camera/slr/digital/d3s/pic02.htm
I admit, my fault, didn’t check carefully enough
Have you tried the EF-S 10-22mm hack? I did it with mine and it works a treat down to 12mm without any vignetting which is about 13mm on my 1d3.
Does anyone else have APS-H?
Because ‘photographers’ that spend time whining on rumours sites are not only NOT thetarget market for this vamera, they will never buy one in the first place, FF or not.
Its aimed at Pro journalists, wildlife photogs , and they, to be frank, couldnt give a toss what sensor size it is.
They are interested in final IQ, and I can guarantee you , nor anyone else spouting rubbish in this thread, could pick out a D3 or 1D mk III image from each other in a magazine spread blind test, and they are interested in predictable and reliable performance.
The scrutiny for this camera will be its AF functionality and reliability, Reuters and Getty dont care what the sensor size is.
I agree Canon should make the camera a Full Frame & have an optional crop mode… that way everybody is happier, its called compromise. Its funny how people say if you don’t like the crop sensor go buy a D3S especially when most of us are Canon users and have Canon lenses. Well for you sports photographers if you don’t like the full frame idea why don’t you just go buy a D300s or better yet a 7D. Why would canon basically make the same camera twice in a row. Serious what is the advantage have having two crop sensor cameras that basically do the same thing one just has higher frames per second. REDICULOUS!!!!!!
Any idea what time the event will be held in Sydney tomorrow?
it, the camera, is a tool.
to use an analogy, a trades person won’t care what metal from which their hammer is made, so long as it bangs in the nails!
simplistic I know, but hopefully makes the point.
This is funny irony :-)
and 4D sounds like dead pig in some Chinese dialect
“Reuters and Getty dont care what the sensor size is.”
I disagree. Most photojournalists that I know personally like their wide angle lenses, which is where APS-H falls down. As for sports photographers wanting extra reach, what about photographers shooting indoors and in low light. For outdoor sports, Canon might have done better to make the 7D a 12MP, 12FPS, $2000 speed demon, improving its noise characteristics by an f-stop. I know I’d much rather carry a 300 f/2.8 than a 500 f/4 around Watkins Glen.
We people who are criticizing APS-H might shut up if Canon also made something like the D700, only better. I know I would.
To continue your analogy, hammers come in various weights: 13, 16, 20, 22, 24, 26 and 28 ounce, and, yes, carpenters care about the hammer weight. Or rather they used to. Now they just use nail guns.
hammer for the job
no different to a “camera for the job”
one wouldn’t use a 5D2 for sports(*), just as one wouldn’t use a little tack hammer to break a concrete slab
(*) not if one had access to a 1D3
I think you’re going to be waiting till the next iteration of the 5D.
that is not true… a ef-s lens doesn’t fit on a 1d camera and if you mod it that you can attach it, its a 16mm lens (12×1.3=15.6)
a tokina 11-16 can be put on a 1d but also starts to work at 12 to 13mm
Nailers also come in various sizes and styles i.e. for framing and trim.
By the way, could agree with your more about the 7D.. 18MP, what the f___ were they thinking?
It’s not baseless, the camera will be announced tomorrow: the actual “on-the-shelf” date and specs are what is in question.
Is Only 12 Bits
It would appear they were thinking
‘lets make a 1.6 crop sensor camera with the lowest read noise in its class’.
Which they then went and did.
Image noise on a 7d is lower than ANY crop camera on the market, apart from the current APS-H pro camera.
Whats the big deal with a 1.3 crop? This camera is designed for sports/wildlife where you are using what is called a “telephoto”lens where magnification is important. If you are worried about your wide angle lenses, then go with a 5DII or wait for the 1DS.
Come on, do you really need to shoot wide angle at 10FPS?
And to those who say to give it an in camera crop like Nikon, sure if you want that crop to be 6-8 megapixels, I know I’m looking forward to having all 16 megapixels for the whole 1.3 crop!
The Canon 1DIII may have a 100% viewfinder but at 1.3 crop and 0.76x magnification provides an smaller viewfinder image than even the 7D.
Hopefully the viewfinder magnification on the 1DV will be improved.
0.76x magnification on the FF 1DsIII provides a much larger viewfinder image than 0.76x on a 1.3 crop.
Leica got rid of their 1.3 crop M8 and replaced it with the FF M9. I don’t hear anyone bemoaning the demise of the 1.3 there. Why can’t Canon put it to pasture also?
Based on the Imaging Resources shots, the 7D’s image noise is no better than my 40D, although it has much more resolution. I need lower noise but not more resolution.
lulz
Coming from a guy who’s such a fanboi that he picks “7d” as his name that’s hardly credible.
Noise, especially at lower isos, is equal to (if not higher than) the 50D. Reviews will prove this point out.
The D3 only gets 3 frames/second at 14bit resolution. If that were sufficient for my needs, I would just pick up a 5D.
Apples and oranges.
The Leica M series is intended to be a general purpose camera, where you’d expect to have wide-angle capability.
Or $6500 if it was a Nikon…
Sure, in fact the 7D has a better IQ than 5DII because of the vignetting (5D is sooo vignetting). Moreover, the flagship canon camera is the 1D. Actually no, the flagship is the 1Ds. Oh wait…
What the camera manufacturers do is try to meet the demands of those who actually buy their cameras, sometimes by the hundred. They do not and should not worry about those who do not have experience with PJ and sports photography. This camera is not and never has been aimed at the FF market. If you want 12mp FF, the Nikon is a great camera, buy a dozen or a hundred.
According to the event invitation it will be at 6.30h pm
Hence the use of the word ‘hack’.You take an old EF lense and convert it using a piece of plastic to stop the lens at 12mm.
You are right of course about the calculation I took it from 10mm.My mistake.
The 10-22mm is a very good sharp and contrasty lense though and I was blown away at how much better it was against my Sigma 15-30mm.
I have heard that the Sigma 12-24mm is a good lense but I haven’t tried the Tokina 11-16.
besides…how much ultra wide do you need?
which is in GMT +11
Oh god thats a terrible one… so the next one would be like… 1DVI… yeah… those puns will be… *shudder*
really? would you post some of your pics?
12fps is impressive only if they significantly increase the camera’s buffer.
So, would making the sensor larger than FF make them Kinger?
One thing clear is that sports/wildlife is a niche market.
Canon should have 3 pro lines if they want to keep APS-H.
Something that insanely fast would need CFAST, not compact flash
‘We people who are criticizing APS-H might shut up if Canon also made something like the D700, only better. I know I would.’
I would argue that the 5DII, in terms of video capability, resolution and IQ is , substantially , better than the D700, andin terms of iso performance they are, at final print, virtually identical , the D700 scores in Af and, perhaps, other areas of handling/speed.
Go to Nikon forums and you will find people clamouring for a 5DII competitor just as you are a D700, the fabled D700x.
As for the full frame comments, again, I will point out not you or anyone on this thread could pick a blind test sample magazine spread from the D3 or 1dIII , the two cameras produce to all intent and purpose identical final images, the D3 has succeeded in lou of the 1dIII due to its well publicised AF issues, reliability is paramount to pros, rather than any sensor size issues.
tick-tock tick-tock tick-tock
14 hours to go and no leaks of any kind. Is the MkIV or V really showing it’s face today? Amazing if Canon was able to keep such a tight lid on it. The truth will soon be known.
7D ghosting problem is the number one topic on the most of Canon related forums except here…
What happens if five fish are too many, and three fish aren’t enough?
If you say so.
It’s a 1.3x Crop? Are you sure? Is it in your hands? Can I See it? Let’s wait to see what it is be fore we fight. I presume it will be crop also, but The guys who say it is a substandatd camera on that basis? I just don’t get it. I know a “crop” has it’s drawbacks, but it also has many advantages also….
tick-tock tick-tock tick-tock
Not in comparable print size.
What is that in NY time?
The Neutral Observer doesn’t understand all the hostility around here.
Do tell? I haven’t seen this mentioned on DPReview either.
With every passing day I’m glad I returned my 7D.
Like most people who try this sort of analysis, you are mixing four of the (at least!) five possible sources of differences between cameras (1) the cameras were made by different manufacturers and, therefore, have different user interfaces, (2) the sensors were made by different manufacturers (3) the cameras were introduced at different times and, therefore, reflect different levels of development and refinement (4) the cameras have different sensor sizes and (5) the sensors have different pixel sizes.
For what it’s worth, my beliefs are as follows WRT these five factors. (1) I have almost $20,000 in Canon lenses and accessories, photography is my hobby, not my profession and I’m not at all interested in switching systems. (2) I’m going to dodge the question of who designed and manufactured the sensor. (3) Newer cameras are almost always better than old (I feel the same way about cars, which I don’t share my friends’ obsession with collection classic cars). Items (4) and (5) interact with each other. Given what I shoot NOW, my ideal kit is one large sensor (FF), large pixel body and one small sensor (APS-C, NOT APS-H) small pixel body. (I currently own 5D and 40D bodies.) Both bodies should have world class focusing (which the 5DMkII does not have) and be capable of at least 6FPS (which the 5DMkII is not)
If I begin shoot more landscapes, which I probably will, then I will purchase a FF, small pixel body. Right now, Nikon is the only manufacturer that makes a body of each of my preferred types.
If you would care to repeat your analysis, separating the contributions of each of these five factors, I would appreciate it.
‘If you would care to repeat your analysis, separating the contributions of each of these five factors, I would appreciate it.’
Sorry I tend judge on one item only – final output.
The 5DII’s output when printed at 17″ or more has an IQ second only to one single production 35mm form factor camera, that is the Nikon D3X, which is more expensive by a factor of 3 or 4.
It is also the same generation as a D700 according to one of your criteria, given there is less than 3 months difference between the launch dates .
I have yet to find a real major problem with the 5DII, it has some things I would prefer different, but its autofocus has never let me down,indeeed its low light tracking is superior to many AF systems, including the 45 point one in my film Eos 3 I still shoot regularly that itself is th ebasis for the current 1D setup. The fps isnt a real problem, I dont shoot fast action with it, the only point it’s framerate becomes an issue is when bracketing , if its a windy day there can be plant movement between shots on a landscape, however, for the cost there is no camera out there that can compete on a performance/cost ratio in terms of final IQ if you go beyond iso 800 ever. Below that both the sony full frames run it close, indeed, in print the differences would be indescernable at lower isos.
I currently have a 1DIIn for wildlife, my next purchase will be either this upcoming 1D replacement, or a 7D.
This depends entirely on the finalised 1d specs, where I will make the choice if the price premium is worth it for my own shooting. The 7D I borrowed recently produced fine images, with focus at the level of my current 1DIIn ,although it suffers more with slower glass, as would be expected with its focus point sensitivity, stick a 300 F4 on it and its as fast and accurate an AF as Ive ever used.
+1
these people need to chill out a little
ossme, if what you say was true, we’d only see white lenses, all Canon’s, at sporting events, because no sports shooter would be using a Nikon D3, which is a FULL FRAME camera. The fact Nikon has retaken a big pro market share in sports with their full frame D3 means you are wrong in your assumptions.
Let me add another factor: (6) the cameras have different intended selling prices, meaning they have different feature sets. I’d love to have the best and most expensive camera, but I don’t want to have to pay for it.
yes do tell where you are seeing this ghosting problem??? Because their is no mention of it on Potn.
are we all clear on this point now?
So 5 years ago you would agree that Canon shouldn’t have been trying to do 3200 ISO because it was useless?
Why not use a flash to light up any subject? Why even have 1600 ISO if we have flashes?
It wasn’t that long ago that whipping out a roll of 1600 ISO film was a joke. And now you don’t think Canon should advance while Nikon is pushing their tech to the limit?
Look at Nikon’s implementation of video in the D3s, its a joke compared to 5DMkII. There are people saying “Why would you need 1080? 720 is just dandy.” How about because a camera costing half as much can do it.
Yup, pretty amazing that nothing credible has leaked out yet. I am still hoping to be wowed, but I’m also bracing for a no-news day tomorrow.
The reason for Nikon’s resurgence in the pro-sports area is due to the absolute disaster that is the 1D3 AF-Servo performance. NOT the full frame sensor, note that Nikon is now offering a 1.2 software crop in the 1DS at the request of pro sports shooters.
“some people” are pathetic!
“King of the technology” with an APS-H? Laughable. My Canon lenses will stay in the drawer, waiting for a body worth buying. D…3…s
That’s BS. The 1D3 AF is pretty good, and frankly the D3 AF is not that much better. A 1.2 crop works better than DX crop because you lose less MP. Point is, if pro sports shooters were SO opposed to FF, they would not be using Nikon’s at all – which is clearly not the case. The idea sports shooters all want aps-h and not FF is total BS. Gee, what did poor sports shooters do before digital and had to use actual film for all those awesome SI cover shots and page layouts? …with a full frame 35mm coverage. Oh my, how could they have gotten such great images without aps-h??? What are sports shooters to do when their 400mm 2.8 is actually 400mm? No one can get a decent sports shot with such a crappy focal length and no aps-h…
I’ll be happy with a AI Servo that works.
MKIII was a flop in what concerns to AF.
What does IQ mean? As in “FF (doesn’t) raise the IQ of a photo”
that analogy doesn’t make sense… Hammers don’t have print buttons!
michal, show me your own facts proving a crop sensor can give equal IQ to a FF sensor before spouting your misleading BS. Vinetting on FF? Talk about misleading statements. Stop misleading people with nonsense like that. I’m sure Canon would love to know ALL their EF lenses that were designed for full frame shooting are worthless due to vinetting and were really designed for aps-h’s “sweet spot”! Stop spouting such misleading incorrect dribble.
image quality, and full frame
see you later then….
David, you seem to be a pretty knowledgeable guy, but you’re wrong here. You need to speak with some sports guys to understand the issue.
This guy sums it up pretty well:
http://prestonmack.blogspot.com/2009/03/switch-to-nikon.html
Image Quality
Nail guns do.
http://www.pressefotografforbundet.dk/teknik/index.php
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and no direct print buttons
“michal, show me your own facts proving a crop sensor can give equal IQ to a FF sensor before spouting your misleading BS”
I have already told you how it works.
“Vinetting on FF? Talk about misleading statements.”
Oh really? http://photo.net/equipment/canon/fullframe/ and many, many other places, just google it. David please do get at least some of the facts right before you post.
“Since vignetting is a strong function of distance from the center of the frame, the “cropped” APS-C sensor shows less vignetting, especially when used with lenses designed for full frame illumination.”
As I already said, you have every right to have your own opinion but do not confuse them with facts David.
Bloddy hell! This darn thing better be launched tomorrow :-) I can’t stand the wait any longer!
I know plenty of pro sports shooters, nikon and canon guys, none of them think aps-h is a good format size.
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Invitation to celebration 50 years of Canon SLR. This image definetely looks like 1 series body…
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/10/canoon.jpg
I guess that would make the release CR3 would it not?
The same sports shooters who told you that the D3 AF “is not that much better”?
I’m not going to argue with you any more David.
michal, you site an old comparison between the original 5D and the 20D, and the only lens used to show vinetting is an old crappy 50mm 1.8, when you probably know very well Canon updated that lens to the II.
You are misleading people with your nonsense. I dont really care what opinions you state, but if you’re gonna accuse me of misleading people while you are the one doing so, then I’m going to call you on it.
I believe 6:30pm in Sydney will be 3:30am in NY.
as a photographer i don’t care who has better technology, I care what produces better results. Canon might equal the 12 mp FF D3S in noise performance with a APS-H sensor, but I don’t care since its not going to give me as nice of bokeh or as great a control over DoF in my images as the FF sensor. especially since if Canon put the technology from their supposed 16 MP APS-H sensor into a 16 MP APS-H camera they can not only correct DoF and field of view issues, and produce a sensor with lower noise, better color and dynamic range, etc…
FYI, it’s 7:16 in the AM on the 20th in Sydney right now. Only half a day more to go.
Well… if Canon does NOT make this camera full frame, then there is NO WAY I would ever buy it!!!!
More for the rest of us.
I found a link:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=33404097
It seems legit.
Yep. If it’s not FF, not buying it.
i can’t sleep tonight.
The fact that only a beta version (provided that the translation is correct) will be available seems to indicate the camera hasn’t reached production status yet.
It doesn’t matter – The 1 Ds Mark V will follow ;-)
Okay, so this camera better perform well. The 7D sucks AND I OWNED ONE for 24hrs before selling that POS. The amount of noise at 200-800 made me sick! Period!
Well, because the subjects will be lit well in front of a black background. How does that shot differ fromwhat the bride can get with her own P&S? My clients appreciate that they can still see the reception hall in the background of my shots (all of which are taken at 1600 on a 5D). I would jump to 6400 in a second if I could for wedding receptions.
Oh, and if one in a hundred brides ever gets a reception shotas big as 8×12 I would be VERY surprised. I have never sold a reception shot bigger than 5×7 in my entire career.
+1
Glad you took the time to learn the camera
Yes Nikon has made some progress but Canon are still the leaders in this field. Specially in the big field games like soccer. Although, I have to admit that part of that is also because of canon’s tele lenses.
we can wait and see what canon will come up with next. If its a 1.3crop or a high MP Full frame then I will be right. Otherwise, you will be the one who is right. :)
To hell with you FF freaks. Grow up and move on…
Yeah it’s true, perhaps Canon will be doing me a favor buy not tempting me to but this camera.
Hopefully by the time they create the 1d Mark 5 it will be full frame.
I can see a crop sensor being ok for certain types of sports events, but in my case I want a high quality, low density full frame sensor. Which can be used both for sport and fine art, or low light weddings.
Nikon offers that with D3 and D3s but I know Canon can do so much better. I just won’t understand if they choose not to compete head to head with Nikon when they have the technology advantage!
if you use the flash properly you dont have to get a blacked out background, just a nice fill light and still keep the background ambience. maybe when they get the grain decent enough I’ll do high ISO, but right now it does not look acceptable to me, except for news reporting or no other way to get the shot.
I don’t care how many rumors are pointing to a crop sensor… I’m putting my money on a full frame. Why would canon make a 7D: 18mp, APS-C Sensor, 8fps, 1080p @ 24/25, 30 & 60 fps, 19 Selectable AF points? Then turn around & basically make its successor in the same year without marketing to full frame users. If you notice the 1D Mark V’s rumored specs are 16mp, APS-H Sensor, 12fps, 1080p @ 24/25, 30 & 60 fps, 19 Selectable AF points which to me sounds like an upgraded 7D. In my opinion i think the 7D was meant for the sports, action & wildlife photographers hence the crop sensor & the 1D Mark V will be for marketed toward full frame Pro users.
Rhett… that is incorrect. The D3 shoots at full 9fps at 14 bit. The only camera that is handicapped at 14 bit is the D300(s). D700, D3 and D3x can all do full fps.
Are you implying that the 1D is not a general purpose camera? That it can only be used for sports? *rolls eyes*
…forgot to add…that’s because I’m stupid…I only own a P&S so far..7D is hard to use.
Wrong, DAVID PR. It’s 8fps in 14 bit. I’m sick of Canonites saying this. ONLY THE D300 IS HANDICAPPED IN 14 BIT.
I dont think anyone is saying dont develop better high ISO, but it is now becoming a marketing gimmick to a degree too. Personally on the 5D2 I keep it at 800 or lower, and use a fill flash when I need more light. At ISO 800, the flash is easier to control, bounce, and balance with ambient light so you dont get such a ‘flash look.’ High ISO is possible now, but it stills look grainy and crappy imo, on any of the new cameras, I’d not use it unless I had to.
Dude I bought the 1 D Mark 3 for wedding photography because of it’s low light performance. If the Canon 1d Mark 4 is NOT full frame it will either be lower mega pixels or lower low light performance or lower dynamic range.
I use wedding photography basically as an excuse to have a 1D camera that I can also use for fine art and fine art/ photo journalism.
For this type of photography you want the best image quality you can get, period.
someone knows when the 7d is going to arrive to miami’s best buy stores??
Here’s an idea, why don’t you call a best buy in Miami and ask them?
It is already known that Lighting Optimizer and Highlight Tone Priority increases noise in shots from ISO 100-800 severely. If you disable them the pictures at low ISO are as good as the 40D! I think you sold prematurely!
hahaha ok ! !! =)
FYI…I own 5D’s. And Highlight Tone Priority was set to off.
If you can get the background with nice ambience at low ISO your venues are MUCH brighter than mine. To shoot a group of 8 or so you need f/4 – f/5.6 to get acceptable DOF – at 1600 ISO in my venues that’s 4 – 6 stops underexposed at say 1/40 sec. That means black backgrounds, even with “proper” flash use. An extra 3-4 useable stops would completely change this.
What about the ghosting issue?
With all the arguments on FF vs crop, what will the 1Ds predessor be? My understanding of the 1D series:
1D for action, sports, wildlife, etc..
1Ds for portrait, landscapes, etc..
if one desires a FF, the 5D2 or 1Ds would suffice. If one is looking for high fps, cropping, then get a 7D or 1D.
Its likes wanting a Porsche but paying VW price. Its not gonna happen!
The D3x is also “handicapped” in 14 bit mode shooting 1.8fps compared to 5fps in 12 bit mode. Right?
Can any body tell me why they would ever choose a crop sensor over Full Frame?
Some cams are showing it and some are not. I am guessing it’s some problem with the fast 8fps of the mirror making some reflection on the sensor. If you shoot at the medium speed mode the issue has not been seen.
Strange for sure!
to me ISO 800 or 1000 is not low ISO, but you are right in the venue can make a difference, typically indoor reception I shoot at 800 ISO with fill flash, and bump it when necessary, but I find anything over 1600 unacceptable grain-wise. When they can make 12800 look as good as 800, then I’ll rethink that. Right now, all these super high ISO features are not usable except when there’s no other way, and I’d rather have a darker background with a clean image.
Did you do the porsche vs VW comparison when nikon released D3 ?
coz canon is very particular about market segmentation.
Why is there only CR1 on here?? It’s one day before and all you are posting are rumors from sources you never heard before without any documentation behind it?
Rather you say you just can’t find anything concrete yet than post everything plausible you get in hoping for a hit.
It’s a rumors site. He’s posting rumors. The vault is tight everywhere. This is a well-kept secret.
If you’ve used Canon for years you know that they maintain their “pecking order” based on features and the level of weather sealing. Does anyone actually think that the new 1D will be less than 18MP? I’d put money on it equaling or besting the recently released 7D in every way…
I hope not. Ideally I’d like to see 16MP or less.
It’s only one day before and it’s only CR1 rumors. Which are new source never heard from before which is almost no different than one of us in the comments section emailing him.
My ideal spec would be FF 16mp with outstanding low light performance and dynamic range!
16mp Full Frame would be roughly the same pixel density as the 10mp 1d Mark 3
@25Mp+
I don’t want or need files that big.
The 7D was a preproduction camera.
If you have the ghosting problem, contact Canon and send them the CR2 file.
When Canon produces a FF with 7D features and 1D quality
that doesn’t have more than 20Mp…
I will move on, and be very happy.
5D2 has an inferior AF system, 1D/1Ds/1D2/1D2n/1Ds2/1D3/1Ds3/7D
all have a better AF system
also,
Not everyone needs 21Mp, so for Canon(current models) your choice is 21Mp or 21Mp. WoW so much to choose from!!
The price of a 1Ds3 is out of most photographers reach.
“Its likes wanting a Porsche but paying VW price. Its not gonna happen!”
Nikon can do it, why can’t Canon?
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/825931
yes no one is saying “don’t develop better high ISO” it’s like the MP wars. putting an unusable feature in a Pro body is a crap.
Well… you could just not visit this site and wait for the actual release.
Market segmentation meaning, not competing with themselves. But… I think it would be arrogant to offer a crop sensor and give up market share to Nikon just to keep prices high.
Nikon is only slightly behind Canon.
I guess the new MkIV is a crap. Gosh Canon, when will you only put features in your cameras that only I require?
ZAC the DOF will be the same regardless of the format with the same lens. This means that a D3 with a 400mm F2.8 lens will have the same DOF as a 1d mark III or 7d with a 400mm F2.8 lens. So for sport photographers the only thing that changes are the framing where the cropped sensor will give you a better frame and close to action.
But If you are not a sport shoter, or use shorter zoom lenses then you are right. AS a commercial photographer, I always shoot with a FF because at the same framing the FF wins in DOF and bokh
My 40D certainly was unlucky; I had to send it back to Canon three times because of focussing problems. Last week, they sent me back a reconditioned 50D as a replacement. I haven’t had much of a chance to test it out, but it seems better with most of my lenses except the 24-70mm, which is not quite on target even when the focus micro-adjustment is racked out to +20. Looks like that lens will be making its fourth trip back for servicing. I suppose it is tempting fate too much to expect that it might be fourth time lucky.
Moral 1: Beware bodies and lenses with a “4” somewhere in the name.
Moral 2: Be persistent. While Canon seemed unable to fix my 40D, they were always courteous and willing to try again. I think they have a rule that they will try three times to fix a problem before considering a replacement. Looks like “4” is something that is bad luck from a servicing point of view, too.
Kaum eine Woche liegt zwischen der Vorstellung der NIKON D3s in Barcelona und der Antwort von CANON in Form der neuen professionellen Spitzenkamera EOS 1 D Mark IV.
Bisher nicht für möglich gehaltene Qualität in Auflösung, Farbe und Empfindlichkeit sind ebenso spektakulär wie die eingebaute FullHD-Video-Funktion oder die von Sportfotografen so geschätzte Belichtungsautomatik „Auto ISO“, bei der mit fester Zeit und Blende die variable ISO für eine korrekte Belichtung sorgt.
Die Kamera und das Zubehör sind ab sofort bei uns im Online-Shop vorbestellbar!
Canon EOS 1D Mark IV
Bei Canon geht heute ein neues Modell in die Pole-Position: Die EOS-1D Mark IV ist da. Sie löst die EOS-1D Mark III ab und ist das Werkzeug, auf das professionelle Sport-, Natur- und Pressefotografen gewartet haben. Gleich zwei DIGIC 4-Prozessoren sorgen unter anderem dafür, dass bei voller Auflösung von 16,1 Megapixeln zehn Bilder pro Sekunde mit Schärfenachführung möglich sind. Der Pufferspeicher schafft mit dieser vollen Auflösung 121 JPEG-Bilder in Folge.
Schärfe auf den Punkt
Das Auftofokus-System, das von einem separaten Prozessor gesteuert wird, ist eine komplette Neuentwicklung. Das Ergebnis ist ein 45-Punkt- Autofokus mit 39 hochempfindlichen Kreuzsensoren. Die 45 Felder sind allesamt einzeln adressierbar, die 39 Kreuzsensoren konzentrieren sich nicht in der Bildmitte, sondern verteilen sich gleichmäßig über die gesamte Fokus-Fläche. Das sorgt für größere Treffsicherheit und Präzision in der Bildschärfe.
Das sind Leistungsmerkmale, die es in dieser Kombination kein zweites Mal gibt.
Verfügbar laut Hersteller ab Mitte Dezember
EOS-1D Mark IV 4.699 Euro UVP inkl. MwSt. Irrtümer und technische Änderungen vorbehalten.
Oh snap I guess HD video at 12,800 native ISO is a complete waste of your time. I apologize and so does Canon.
No need to apologize and I doubt that you can speak for Canon. It is a waste of time for me as I don’t use my camera for moving pictures. However unlike some FF snobs I do understand that there are some features or specs that are important to other’s and I just let them be, I simply don’t pay them any attention aside from an occasional sarcastic comment.
Oh man, you got me: I don’t speak for Canon. Implicit in a ridiculous ISO setting is the overall advancement, and for some reason, people seem to attach importance only to the literal extreme.
I guess I will just have to do with 16MP 10fps AF night vision goggles.
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