There are examples in the past where, for example, Sigma EF mount lens would stop working properly when Canon changed their camera firmware. So, Sigma and Tamron introduced docks so that the lens firmware could be upgraded.
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Did Canon See the Writing on the Wall with the RF Mount?
- Thread starter Richard CR
- Start date
The docks were partly needed because Sigma and Tamron had reverse engineered EF protocol and missed some subtle points. A licensing situation is different because there, the protocol should be provided to the licensee. The China case is different for two reasons. Firstly, the manufacturer may choose to not implement the protocol completely and more importantly may decide to bow out of the agreement and continue using the technology anyway. Doing business in China is always a challenge.
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Internal zoom is available for the 70-200 in both black and white:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1858405-REG/canon_6593c002_rf_70_200mm_f_2_8_l.html
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"Indeed, the RF lenses are expensive. I still use my 100-400 II, the 70-200 II f/4, the TS-E 24 II, and the 16-35 f/4. "
Of course it is about f/4 and not f/2.8
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I think you underestimate the intelligence and learning ability of the Chinese.
That they took shortcuts doesn't change that.
Besides, German industry copied the English industry in the past, the Japanese learned as well by analysing achievements by other nations etc...
Most first Japanese cameras looked strangely like Contax and Leica models.
And it's no secret that the US Intelligence is known for spying on EU and Asian industry.
It's a constant and continuing process.
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Well, I for one got a Sony A7C and two Sony zooms (28-60mm and 20-70mm f/4 G), as well as two Chinese primes. And the awesome TTArtisan adapter that adds AF to old film-era glass. Had Sony closed their mount, I wouldn’t have bought a single thing from them.
This is the key part of their strategy: get the people who buy more than one lens (i.e. enthusiasts and pros) on board, and leave the low end of the market to Canon and OM System. Sony might be #2 in sales, but they outperform Canon in terms of income per unit, indicating that they sell more expensive cameras on average.
I think it’s funny that some people speak of Sony’s decision to open E-mount as some sort of desperate move. Sony love proprietary solutions more than almost any other global company besides Apple, and have become infamous for that. But back in the day they looked at the #1 seller in photography, and noticed that they had the strongest 3rd party support of anyone in the business, thanks to a “live and let live” approach. That company was Canon, of course, in the EF days. That’s why they also dropped the silly Minolta flash shoe, and embraced USB charging in camera before anyone else. Sony, as an outsider company, could see some things that the established players couldn’t, and one of those was how important third party products are for a photo system.
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Long, long time ago I had a Sony A7*.
Sold it after 2 weeks, because I hated the ergonomics, in fact, the entire camera.
So it came that I bought a Canon 5D III, after hesitating between it and the corresponding Nikon. Meanwhile, I'm a very happy owner of R5 II + R5 II + 14 RF and EF lenses (mostly RF Ls) and, honestly, don't care at all about cheap Chinese or Japanese lenses. Never had in 14 Canon years one single repair (except when I dropped the 24 TSE II-ouch!), not ever after having used lenses and cameras under heavy rain.
But: That's only my point of view, many will certainly disagree, especially those who actually need (!!!) a lens not-not yet available in the RF system.
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ashmadux
Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
This, this, this. That's why I love sigma and L mount...the original reason I went with cannon in the first place was because stories of Nikon's customer service. If I'm spending over $1,000 on your product especially, they are better be an extensive support network there.
I understand the hype for cheap Chinese lenses, but once you start going past 600 bucks or so, no support no buy.
And there's definitely not enough stories of how these lenses hold up over time... It just hasn't been that long enough.
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Canon does very well selling a kit lens combo with a bag at Best Buy for $650. It does very well for their overall sales of units, but as you mention when you look at the price per unit sold it pulls the average down. Sony doesn't really appear to care to compete here. They have been constantly moving the entry point higher and higher. You can get an R100 for $560 which came out in 2023. Meanwhile the closest Sony equivalent would be the ZV-E10 which came out in 2021 and is still $800. They see the writing on the wall that the bottom of the market will be gone in a few years and have no desire to chase it.
Agreed. I think looking at the two companies as a whole helps to better understand their position. Company wide Canon does ¥4,500B in sales and Sony does ¥13,000B. The sales of cameras between these two companies is very similar with Canon at ¥580B and Sony at ¥640B.
Canon's brand is essentially tied to imaging. If you look at cameras, network cameras, industrial cameras and printing that is effectively 75% of their business. Meanwhile Sony has more in Playstation sales than Canon does for its entire company. Point being if/when cameras are taken over by the Chinese and/or become less comon this won't be much of an issue for Sony. They seem to be primarily using cameras to offset R&D for sensors which they are selling much more off. They are putting more sensors in cars then they are cameras.
Sony is know as an electronics company and not a camera company. So their position has been to make a camera with bettter specs on paper and sell it to people who care about specs. No on is buying a Sony for the heritage or tradition. If cameras evolved into mainly being an accessory for a smartphone that wouldn't mean much to them and they would simply sell sensors to all the smartphone makers. But the same situation would be a big impact on Canon's brand.
The days of selling someone an entry level camera, getting them to upgrade to an expensive piece of glass and locking them in as a brand loyalist for life are gone. Sure there are plenty of 55+ people here who feel that way but I'm not sure betting the future of a company on older people is a great business strategy.
I think Fuji is handling this transition well. A lot of their growth has come from the X100VI which has a built in lens. While on paper the camera doesn't have the best specs or the best ergonomics but it uses the history of the company and retro styling to make it more of a cultural statement then simply a cameras. This I think is the biggest mistep for Canon. They went after the point and shoot crowd but ignored a large portion of it. Sure they can make a small camera with good quality. But in a world where everyone already has an option that is good enough what will make them stand out.
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ashmadux
Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
You know, the comments in this article give me hope that Canon will have to make a real choice sooner than later... and I love how sigma has stolen all of their lens panache. They could send as many YouTubers to thier factory as they want... they haven't changed to meet the moment.
Regardless of market share they are losing a ton of money to Sony. the L Mount might be small but I already have one body and I'm working on my second lens. That is money that is not going to Canon and they have already decided they are not going to make the gear that many consumers actually want. as far as I'm concerned the vcm series is pure blasphemy aside from the 85 mm. I now have a small / cheaper full frame body with ibis, and Canon simply doesn't offer that at all. I guess that's what winning is.
Otherwise they seem to be doing their line of greatest (regular) hits when it comes to L series.. and that's a shame because everybody knows Canon can do so much better.
Regardless of market share they are losing a ton of money to Sony. the L Mount might be small but I already have one body and I'm working on my second lens. That is money that is not going to Canon and they have already decided they are not going to make the gear that many consumers actually want. as far as I'm concerned the vcm series is pure blasphemy aside from the 85 mm. I now have a small / cheaper full frame body with ibis, and Canon simply doesn't offer that at all. I guess that's what winning is.
Otherwise they seem to be doing their line of greatest (regular) hits when it comes to L series.. and that's a shame because everybody knows Canon can do so much better.
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I don't see this as much of an issue for the younger crowd and highlights where they are going. Take the Viltrox highlighted in the article as I know someone whose purchased this lens. The new Sony is $2k, the older Sony is $1,500 and the Sigma is $1,200. Once they saw the review of the image quality of the Viltrox it was a no brainer at $600. They are moving pricing into a territory where additional lenses are esentially impulse buys.
If the lens just complete broke in 2 -3 years and they could buy by then a newer version for roughly the same money then worst case scenario they would be out $1,200 which is the minimum they would pay for the alternative.
Look at what they did for TV's. If my 4 year old $600 55" Chinese tv craps out I'd just go buy a brand new 65" for less money and much better picture quality.
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Curious: What's blasphemous about the VCM series?You know, the comments in this article give me hope that Canon will have to make a real choice sooner than later... and I love how sigma has stolen all of their lens panache. They could send as many YouTubers to thier factory as they want... they haven't changed to meet the moment.
Regardless of market share they are losing a ton of money to Sony. the L Mount might be small but I already have one body and I'm working on my second lens. That is money that is not going to Canon and they have already decided they are not going to make the gear that many consumers actually want. as far as I'm concerned the vcm series is pure blasphemy aside from the 85 mm. I now have a small / cheaper full frame body with ibis, and Canon simply doesn't offer that at all. I guess that's what winning is.
Otherwise they seem to be doing their line of greatest (regular) hits when it comes to L series.. and that's a shame because everybody knows Canon can do so much better.
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Two years ago I happened in to Walmart as they were setting out a pallet of 65" 4k tv's for $188 ( Black Fridayweek deal). Wow. I grabbed one. No problems ever.The first color tv I ever bought was in 1983. It was a Quazar 19" for $489! Lol
I bought a Mitsubishi big screen 38" for $3k in 1999. Lol
Thank you, China. Trade with you made my lifestyle better.
Side note: In 1989 I paid $174 for a Microsoft mouse. Two buttons and a ball it rolled on. What are mice now? $2 and without the ball? For a basic mouse?
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And that's the real issue for me. There's nothing in RF mount like the TTArtisan 40mm f/2 I recently got. I tried the RF 50mm f/1.8 and I hated it, I think it's shamefully poor for a 2020's lens. The Chinese lens is smaller, made out of metal, has an aperture ring, and while its bokeh is worse, it delivers more even resolution across the field... and also happens to be my favorite focal length. Mind you, the Sony 40mm f/2.5 was never an option either, considering how damned expensive it is for how mediocre the results are ("pixie dust" is the bare minimum I expect for $550!) That Sony also make the most interesting standard zoom on the market right now is a bonus (the 20-70mm f/4).
And then, I wanted to have AF and some EXIF for my vast collection of vintage glass, which was what originally sold me on E-mount, and the Sony + adapter have delivered that in spades
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Well it looks like what I was thinking is already in the works. So as discussed Viltrox has a PRO seriers 85Mm f1.4 that they sell for $600. Now they have introduced a new line in between their PRO line and their budget AIR line called EVO. They have now realeased an 85mm f2.0 for ....$275!.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1924792-REG/viltrox_af_85_2_0_fe_af_85mm_f_2_0_evo.html
They've gotten smart and even at that price point they still included AM|MF switch, programable focus button, aperture ring as well as a badge for styling.
If these Chinese companies figure out zoom lenses it's going to be a different landscape for sure.
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But not much. To date, their camera body market share has been consistently high. Last year it was (2.84/6.00) 47%, according to Canon's financial documents. They will release an updated 2025 forecast in a few days.
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