Gerald Undone completes exhaustive record time testing on the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

[wockawocka]

These figures all seem fine to me (4K normal quality is probably good enough for many already), especially with the external recorder.
It is the cooldown period, which is the real problem, maybe they can make tweak that a little bit with software.

If that Tilta cooling kit or something like that actually works in practise (even though it looks quite ridiculous and probably quite loud when it works) they might sell quite a few of those.

We might not see another 8K camera with a great IBIS, etc. like this any time soon, it is a unique product, no matter how flawed it is being presumed, people expected it to cost a lot more initially (and I expected the rolling shutter to be much worse than it is, although curious to see the measurements).

The boys at DPR claim the R6 is better at 4k than the R5

 

[YuengLinger]

This is one of the best threads in ages. Very insightful generally.

Has anybody looked at the heating effects of IBIS? Does turning it off buy any time? And I wonder how it affects battery life.

 

[stevensteven]

For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.

I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
For photos, its either street style and family stuff, or high resolution travel composites.
For videos, on a daily basis I shoot little short films of my family, short travel videos, and about once year, I shoot a narrative short film (small crew).
I only use prime lenses. 24mm 1.4 , 35mm 1.8 (90% of the time on my camera for both photo and video) , 85mm 1.4/1.2 , and for macro stuff I use the 100mm 2.8 on canon, and the 90mm 2.8 on Sony. This lens choice will never change for me. They are the four lenses I plan to use for the rest of my life. To be honest, they are great on Sony, and great on Canon, so my doubts concern more the bodies than the lenses at this point.

When I first heard the specs of the R5, I thought it was going to be the body that does it all for me. As of today, it doesn't seem like it anymore.
I will work for all my photo work, it will work for the family videos perfectly, it will work for the travel videos even better, but it might fall short to shoot my yearly short film.

The ASiii on the other hand will be perfect for all of my video work, but it will not be ok for most of my photo needs, except the family portraits.

When I ask myself what are my needs, and if I try to be objective and reasonable, here is what I come up with:
- At least 24MP for photos + Great autofocus
- 4K 10 bit 422 for the family and travel videos
- Unlimited 4K 10 bit 422 AND/OR RAW recording for the short films.
One thing I know for sure is that I want a compact system, that I own and master. So the idea of getting an R5 and rent out a cine cam for the short film doesn't suit my style/needs.
Another thing I know is that I have a little more affection and trust for Canon than Sony as a brand, but I could get past that if needed.

So here are the two solutions I can imagine for the future, to make myself happy and satisfied:

1. Say goodbye to Sony forever. Invest in RF glass. Use the Canon R5 for my daily use and it will be more than perfect. When the time comes to shoot my yearly short film, either hope that Canon fixed some of the limitations via firmware update, or buy a second body to double my shooting time on set and give more time for the camera to cool off when needed.

2. Say goodbye to Canon forever. Invest in FE glass. Own the A7Siii for my short film and a Ninja V for RAW recording, and patiently wait for the A7iv which should at least offer me a 24MP sensor, great autofocus, and 4K 10 bit 422.

Well, sorry I just told you about my life, I know it didn't bring anything constructive to this debate, but I needed to write things down to figure out myself what I really wanted. I guessed I used you guys as my shrink, to let it all out.

If you're curious about my work though, you can always check me out on Insta. My username is stev
All you see there has been shot either on the 1DXmkii or on the a7iii/A7riv...
Except for the last two posts which I shot on my latest purchase. The Leica M10P.... which is actually becoming my favourite camera of all times, but I'll keep that story for another day or you might think I'm bipolar....

Cheers
Stev

 

[stevensteven]

This is one of the best threads in ages. Very insightful generally.

Has anybody looked at the heating effects of IBIS? Does turning it off buy any time? And I wonder how it affects battery life.

Armando says in his video he has both IBIS and AF turned off, and the camera still overheats before he even has the time to roll. Although in my opinion he's trying to use the R5 like an Alexa, and that's really not what it was intended for...

 

[CJudge]

I love Gerald Undone's work but he's not into photography. He pre-ordered 3 of Sony's new A7Siii which is an amazing 12MP video centric 4k camera that costs $3500. Canon should have just sent R5/R6 to hybrid or photography YouTubers. If the R5 was designed primarily for video they should have sent that to him.

He said that 12MP is fine for photography if you know what you are doing which is true but most photographers would never buy a $3500 camera with 12MP.

I hope his review of the R5 is compared to the A7RIV and not the A7Siii

Interestingly, in his live-stream he commented that the A7Riv beats the R5 when it comes to stills. It was only a passing comment while discussing other things, he didn't go into detail, but I'm keen to hear what informed that opinion.

AF - seems to be the same
Resolution - higher on the Sony
Battery - better on the Sony
IBIS - better on the Canon
FPS - higher on the Canon
LCD - better (and articulating) on the Canon
Low light Autofocus - better on the Canon

There could of course be other factors I'm missing, and it's always possible that Gerald simply finds the Sony's ergonomics and workflow to suit his needs better. But if he's basing it primarily on sensor resolution... that would be an odd rationality after noting how the A7Siii's 12MP sensor still provides enough resolution for most situations.

 

[landon]

For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.

I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
For photos, its either street style and family stuff, or high resolution travel composites.
For videos, on a daily basis I shoot little short films of my family, short travel videos, and about once year, I shoot a narrative short film (small crew).
I only use prime lenses. 24mm 1.4 , 35mm 1.8 (90% of the time on my camera for both photo and video) , 85mm 1.4/1.2 , and for macro stuff I use the 100mm 2.8 on canon, and the 90mm 2.8 on Sony. This lens choice will never change for me. They are the four lenses I plan to use for the rest of my life. To be honest, they are great on Sony, and great on Canon, so my doubts concern more the bodies than the lenses at this point.

When I first heard the specs of the R5, I thought it was going to be the body that does it all for me. As of today, it doesn't seem like it anymore.
I will work for all my photo work, it will work for the family videos perfectly, it will work for the travel videos even better, but it might fall short to shoot my yearly short film.

The ASiii on the other hand will be perfect for all of my video work, but it will not be ok for most of my photo needs, except the family portraits.

When I ask myself what are my needs, and if I try to be objective and reasonable, here is what I come up with:
- At least 24MP for photos + Great autofocus
- 4K 10 bit 422 for the family and travel videos
- Unlimited 4K 10 bit 422 AND/OR RAW recording for the short films.
One thing I know for sure is that I want a compact system, that I own and master. So the idea of getting an R5 and rent out a cine cam for the short film doesn't suit my style/needs.
Another thing I know is that I have a little more affection and trust for Canon than Sony as a brand, but I could get past that if needed.

So here are the two solutions I can imagine for the future, to make myself happy and satisfied:

1. Say goodbye to Sony forever. Invest in RF glass. Use the Canon R5 for my daily use and it will be more than perfect. When the time comes to shoot my yearly short film, either hope that Canon fixed some of the limitations via firmware update, or buy a second body to double my shooting time on set and give more time for the camera to cool off when needed.

2. Say goodbye to Canon forever. Invest in FE glass. Own the A7Siii for my short film and a Ninja V for RAW recording, and patiently wait for the A7iv which should at least offer me a 24MP sensor, great autofocus, and 4K 10 bit 422.

Well, sorry I just told you about my life, I know it didn't bring anything constructive to this debate, but I needed to write things down to figure out myself what I really wanted. I guessed I used you guys as my shrink, to let it all out.

If you're curious about my work though, you can always check me out on Insta. My username is stev
All you see there has been shot either on the 1DXmkii or on the a7iii/A7riv...
Except for the last two posts which I shot on my latest purchase. The Leica M10P.... which is actually becoming my favourite camera of all times, but I'll keep that story for another day or you might think I'm bipolar....

Cheers
Stev

People will make a VERY EXPENSIVE choice to invest in these ecosystems. Which combination will they choose?

Canon: R5 (flagship) and R6 - Both have 30mins record limit.
Sony: A7siii - video centric, has unlimited recording, 1080-240fps. A7iv will be at least 20mp, 4K 10 bit 422, unlimited recording. (or A7riv)

When the pandemic is over and people get back to normality, and celebrations begin. Which of the two combination will wedding videographers and people like yourself choose?

I'm sure Canon got a video centric "R" in the works and can compete with the A7siii, but during this time when people are switching to the A7siii, they need to ANNOUNCE "Unlimited recording in low modes, 240p (crop) firmware for the R5/R6 COMING SOON to let fence sitters believe the Canon Flagship (the expensive R5 and EXPENSIVE RF glasses) is worth the investment. Let people have that option now when everyone is in lock down, so they can get used to the gear. Waiting for the "R1-pro" in a few years when the A7siii is available now is not wise.

Sorry for my rant. People were patient with Canon on the R, because it's their first foray into FF mirrorless.
The expensive flagship is here (R5). They won't take any more excuse when the A7siii is here and now.

 

[padam]

The boys at DPR claim the R6 is better at 4k than the R5

That is only true for one mode, which is the 4k60p FF (1.07x crop on the R6 to be precise) vs line-skipped mode on the R5

Flick the R5 to the APS-C crop mode, and it is comparable quality (it will be compatible with a Speed Booster which Metabones provides, with Canon developing its own version as well)
It also has 4k120p, which is a huge difference.
It has full sensor width Cinema 4K aspect ratio
It has ALL-I codecs, and of course the 8K RAW option
It may receive Canon Log 3 with even better dynamic range while the R6 will stay with Canon Log

It has way more options than the R6, also with way less rolling shutter because of the newer generation, faster readout sensor, this is something people overlook on the R6, it doesn't seem to be the greatest in that aspect (just like the 1DX III in FF 24p mode), but we'll need to see measurements.

The R5 seems like a way better video camera for most things, we just need to see just how bad is this overheating - but again there are lots of recording options and it isn't a problem in all of them, it has lots of options to be point of being overwhelming.

 

[scyrene]

I'm assuming you're responding to me.
A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do.
What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?

People have been coming to these forums for YEARS saying "Canon must match/exceed Sony or they're DOOMED" - so much that it's a tired meme here. And every time I ask, why is it different now? Each company releases new cameras, the relative sales figures don't change all that much over the long term.

Incidentally, I guess you meant "greater native lens choice" given you can mount EF and EF-S lenses on RF bodies.

 

[landon]

People have been coming to these forums for YEARS saying "Canon must match/exceed Sony or they're DOOMED" - so much that it's a tired meme here. And every time I ask, why is it different now? Each company releases new cameras, the relative sales figures don't change all that much over the long term.

Incidentally, I guess you meant "greater native lens choice" given you can mount EF and EF-S lenses on RF bodies.

I'll quote what I said in my reply to stevenson.
People were patient with the R, Canon's first FF mirrorless.
The flagship is here (R5), and what has it got compared to the competition? People are wondering is the VERY EXPENSIVE RF glasses that I have, or I'll need to replace, or need to buy for the RF ecosystem worth it? When everybody's got at least one good camera that they don't need to replace.

 

[SecureGSM]

Maybe I misinterpreted what the poster who I replied to meant when he said:




As for your point 3 and 4:

I'm not sure if you're being ingenuous or not, but this isn't like any Canon camera that has come before I don't think. Is there another Canon camera that writes 1200mb/sec bursts of data? 5Ds & 5DsR were 5FPS. That's not even close to the same thing.

Look, don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to say I know what this camera should or shouldn't be capable of. I'm trying to say that I don't know. But when people are only giving half the story but a full-throated opinion, that kinda makes it difficult to know exactly what's happening.

Writing short bursts into buffer Isn’t an issue. think of it. : yes you write 2500 shots in 2 hours. That’s average of 2500/7200 images per second. or 45 x 2500/7200 MB/s Not much at all.
it is well understood that you “don’t know.“ That’s fine. Please accept the following: shooting 2500 frames with a pro level body in 2 hours is normal. even at 85F and above average humidity.

 

[BeenThere]

For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.

I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
For photos, its either street style and family stuff, or high resolution travel composites.
For videos, on a daily basis I shoot little short films of my family, short travel videos, and about once year, I shoot a narrative short film (small crew).
I only use prime lenses. 24mm 1.4 , 35mm 1.8 (90% of the time on my camera for both photo and video) , 85mm 1.4/1.2 , and for macro stuff I use the 100mm 2.8 on canon, and the 90mm 2.8 on Sony. This lens choice will never change for me. They are the four lenses I plan to use for the rest of my life. To be honest, they are great on Sony, and great on Canon, so my doubts concern more the bodies than the lenses at this point.

When I first heard the specs of the R5, I thought it was going to be the body that does it all for me. As of today, it doesn't seem like it anymore.
I will work for all my photo work, it will work for the family videos perfectly, it will work for the travel videos even better, but it might fall short to shoot my yearly short film.

The ASiii on the other hand will be perfect for all of my video work, but it will not be ok for most of my photo needs, except the family portraits.

When I ask myself what are my needs, and if I try to be objective and reasonable, here is what I come up with:
- At least 24MP for photos + Great autofocus
- 4K 10 bit 422 for the family and travel videos
- Unlimited 4K 10 bit 422 AND/OR RAW recording for the short films.
One thing I know for sure is that I want a compact system, that I own and master. So the idea of getting an R5 and rent out a cine cam for the short film doesn't suit my style/needs.
Another thing I know is that I have a little more affection and trust for Canon than Sony as a brand, but I could get past that if needed.

So here are the two solutions I can imagine for the future, to make myself happy and satisfied:

1. Say goodbye to Sony forever. Invest in RF glass. Use the Canon R5 for my daily use and it will be more than perfect. When the time comes to shoot my yearly short film, either hope that Canon fixed some of the limitations via firmware update, or buy a second body to double my shooting time on set and give more time for the camera to cool off when needed.

2. Say goodbye to Canon forever. Invest in FE glass. Own the A7Siii for my short film and a Ninja V for RAW recording, and patiently wait for the A7iv which should at least offer me a 24MP sensor, great autofocus, and 4K 10 bit 422.

Well, sorry I just told you about my life, I know it didn't bring anything constructive to this debate, but I needed to write things down to figure out myself what I really wanted. I guessed I used you guys as my shrink, to let it all out.

If you're curious about my work though, you can always check me out on Insta. My username is stev
All you see there has been shot either on the 1DXmkii or on the a7iii/A7riv...
Except for the last two posts which I shot on my latest purchase. The Leica M10P.... which is actually becoming my favourite camera of all times, but I'll keep that story for another day or you might think I'm bipolar....

Cheers
Stev

From the chart on page 1 from the OP, it looks like the R5 + Ninja 5 gets you done. Any limitations would be pretty easy to work around.

 

[SecureGSM]

More affordable options. Although their colors always make people look ill/teal.

Who cares about colours these days. Oh, wait. ..

 

[landon]

Who cares about colours these days. Oh, wait. ..

It's like they misplaced the R in the RGB spectrum

 

[scyrene]

I'll quote what I said in my reply to stevenson.
People were patient with the R, Canon's first FF mirrorless.
The flagship is here (R5), and what has it got compared to the competition? People are wondering is the VERY EXPENSIVE RF glasses that I have, or I'll need to replace, or need to buy for the RF ecosystem worth it? When everybody's got at least one good camera that they don't need to replace.

"People"? Do you have some polling on that, or are we projecting our own beliefs/anecdotal observations onto the population at large?

To answer your question, the R5 has got quite a lot compared to the competition. Not that spec lists should be how we judge cameras, but almost every feature of this camera is improved compared to the R, and many of them exceed (on paper at least) competitors' bodies in the same segment.

 

[vjlex]

Writing short bursts into buffer Isn’t an issue. think of it. : yes you write 2500 shots in 2 hours. That’s average of 2500/7200 images per second. or 45 x 2500/7200 MB/s Not much at all.
it is well understood that you “don’t know.“ That’s fine. Please accept the following: shooting 2500 frames with a pro level body in 2 hours is normal. even at 85F and above average humidity.

You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not claim writing short bursts into the buffer is an issue. Nor did I say that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours is abnormal. You're making assumptions that I myself am not willing to make.

 

[landon]

"People"? Do you have some polling on that, or are we projecting our own beliefs/anecdotal observations onto the population at large?

To answer your question, the R5 has got quite a lot compared to the competition. Not that spec lists should be how we judge cameras, but almost every feature of this camera is improved compared to the R, and many of them exceed (on paper at least) competitors' bodies in the same segment.

Read what poster stevensteven said his dilema is. People with money and can invest in expensive FF camera/glass can make a choice to go with the ecosystem they feel best fit their needs.
With the release of the A7siii and soon A7iv or current A7riv. Soon with flip screen and better menu. What reason for a person with no EF or RF glasses to go with Canon? Or stay with Canon, when they don't have any RF glass yet?
Many people are cancelling their R5/R6 pre-order (on Youtube) because the A7siii offer better video specs. And when they do migrate to the Sony system, the soon a7iv (hybrid) and current a7riv (photo) will do similar job of the R5 and 5Div.
The GAS bois are willing to fork out $1000 more to get the A7siii over the R6, due to the better video specs, and they'll keep that camera and ecosystem. Canon/Pana/BMP4k/6k won't get them back. Now you might think they are a minority and most pro aren't on social media, but the market is shrinking, and these are the people willing to spend big on hobbies and wannabe filmmakers start up package.

 

[Nilo]

I am a nature photographer. I work mainly in Africa, generally with hot weather.
Can someone clarify for me if I only shoot photos and don't use video mode, Canon EOS R5 might stop working due to overheating?
I'm confused.
Thank you.

 

[peters]

Is it the sensor that heats up, or a processor that is doing it? The sensor, since it has movement to deal with IBIS, would be difficult to cool other than by the air around it. Mounting it solidly to the magnesium frame would cool it, but it would then be unable to move for stabilization.

The processor, on the other hand, could use part of the magnesium housing as a heat sink if designed as such, even if the heat transfer is through a conductive heat sink type of thing. If the heat is adequately transferred to the back or bottom of the camera body, then some type of external cooling would be effective.

I think it shouldnt be a problem to build a heatpipe on a moving thing like the sensor. They could use a flexible material which conducts heat very well. Some kind of gel maybe or just thinner metal bands. A watercooled PC also got flexible pipes, so I guess it should be possible.

 

[Kit.]

How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5C?

• It would compromise weather sealing

...
Would you buy this camera?

No.

 

[genriquez]

Interestingly, in his live-stream he commented that the A7Riv beats the R5 when it comes to stills. It was only a passing comment while discussing other things, he didn't go into detail, but I'm keen to hear what informed that opinion.

AF - seems to be the same
Resolution - higher on the Sony
Battery - better on the Sony
IBIS - better on the Canon
FPS - higher on the Canon
LCD - better (and articulating) on the Canon
Low light Autofocus - better on the Canon

There could of course be other factors I'm missing, and it's always possible that Gerald simply finds the Sony's ergonomics and workflow to suit his needs better. But if he's basing it primarily on sensor resolution... that would be an odd rationality after noting how the A7Siii's 12MP sensor still provides enough resolution for most situations.

He definitely does camera reviews well but mostly video centric. His reviews of the EOS R highlighted focus peaking and DPAF for smooth video transitions. I think he was also a fan of the m50. But he hasn't reviewed (in my hastily done search) cameras like the m6 or 1dx. So I expect his review if the R5/R6 to also be video centric. Again I just hope he compares the R5 to the Sony A7RIV. Other reviewers (DPReview, Tony/Chelsea) have said that the quality of the 4kHQ are better than Sony but because they can't record indefinitely then it's a problem.