The Last Generation of the Crop Sensor Cameras

[smirkypants]

I'm pretty sure this crop/full frame debate is soon to go the way of the blue ray vs. hd dvd debate... it will be made irrelevant by the advancement of technology. The D800 has pretty much shown us the future. If you have a high megapixel camera, crop becomes irrelevant. The D800 switches between 1.0, 1.2 and 1.5 crops effortlessly with 36/26/16 MP files respectively. A 50MP camera gets us to almost 20MP at a 1.6 crop.

Of course this will probably only hold true for the top of the line models, at least for a while, but I wouldn't be buying any EF-S lenses in the interim. I wouldn't be thinking of making a long-term commitment to EF-S glass if I were at all serious about my future photography plans.

So the 7D Mark II may well be the last semi-pro crop sensor camera that comes out. I know that I haven't really seen Canon investing in a lot of new high-level EF-S glass.

Just, you know... throwin' it out there.

 

[3kramd5]

It's probably cost prohibitive. They get significantly fewer sensors per wafer with FF dimensions.

 

[mws]

I agree with smirkypants. I don't know when, but I think eventually everything will be full frame. Or maybe even some new dimension.

 

[lol]

In the very long run, I think mirrorless is what will kill the crop DSLR, not full frame models. Why do we have crop sensor DSLRs? Because they are a LOT cheaper than full frame models. I don't see any sign of that changing any time soon. But if future mirrorless sales erode into entry level DSLR space from below, I think DSLRs will be forced upwards and survive in a premium niche. If you want bigger sensor DoF, full frame is still far more affordable than medium format. But this is still a long term factor and I don't think will happen for many years.

 

[tomscott]

For the near future no I dont think so. Crop is not only designed for consumers it also allows for quicker product obsolescence and this is where the manufacturers make all their money. The difference in sales between a XXXD and a XD will be phenomenal. The percentage of users with crop cameras will trump compared to full frame.

Most consumers dont even understand the difference.. It takes pictures.

You have to understand that not everyone buys cameras for a career, not everyone is a pro and people like taking pictures. Although there are newer techs like mirrorless the DSLR is the camera to go with if you want better quality pics. Up to A3 even A2 crops are fine! Seen as tho barely anyone has a printer bigger than A4 it wont matter anyway.

Whether it makes sense or not, there will always be a business man behind the decisions and killing crops is not one I see them applauding. Making a cheap camera that sells like hot cakes is a dream which is why so many people have XXXDs.

 

[risc32]

i agree that crop frame SLR cameras days are numbered. Not in the next couple years or anything, but surely they won't make it out of this decade. Death from FF slr's, mirrorless things, or something else will take them out. Sure most people don't know the difference, they use their camera phones. But when then go online or walk into a camera shop they will be told about the differences. sensor prices will continue to fall, hence ff camera body prices. the lens lineup with consolidate, new ef-s lenses will stop being designed. they will likely be MADE for a good while after new designs have halted, and repairs will continue for a good while after that happens. but the day will come when they are no more. Are crop frame bodies , with lenses attached considerably smaller than FF stuff to justify their existence on size alone? Compared to mirrorless offerrings? Can someone name something electronic that hasn't gotten faster, smaller, cheaper, and better for less? that's a real question, perhaps there are examples, i just can't think of any. DSLR's are computers in highend cases.

 

[Heidrun]

I realy dont think that Canon will skip the 1,6 sensor. What i realy think that Canon will do is produce a 36x36 sensor with between 50 and 75 MP in the feauture

 

[EYEONE]

Are you kidding me? There is a reason we have DSLRs for $500. This is hardly the "last generation of crop sensors" :

You see what happen to bikes when cars came around? Oh...nothing.

 

[1982chris911]

There is always a gap for APS-C (DX) sized cameras and it is likely to remain for quite some time. The reason is very simple in my opinion:

De facto mirrorless and APS-C cameras will soon or already have the same sensor quality ... E.g. GH2/NEX 7/ SLT A77 and 600D/60D/7D ... however there is a major difference and that is the lenses. While in both system we see high quality glass the problem is that most mirrorless systems are kind of closed architecture systems due to their overall smaller size - the APS-C (DX) DSLR models can however also take full frame class lenses and are therefore the entry level to FF where higher margins for the companies are possible ...

Just think about it nearly everyone here started with a XXXD or XXD body before moving to FF therefore it is in all companies interest (Canon, Nikon and Sony) to leave this path of upgrade intact ... which in consequence means that at least 2 to 3 APS-C bodies will always remain in each lineup and that are BEGINNER (XXXD) INTERMEDIATE (XXD) and SEMIPRO (7D least likely to remain imo) ...

 

[Ellen Schmidtee]

Most of the market is looking for cheap equipment, so cameras with small sensors (& lenses with small image circle) will stay in the market.

As someone wrote in a local newsletter - he has a P&S w/ 35-1000mm (or some such) equivalent lens, he is satisfied with it, and screw the snobs who think heavy & expensive DSLRs are better.

 

[prestonpalmer]

Eventually, they will all be square.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I agree with smirkypants. I don't know when, but I think eventually everything will be full frame. Or maybe even some new dimension.

How large would a camera phone be with a FF sensor?? Somehow, I don't think this is the case, tiny cameras are in demand.

 

[TrumpetPower!]

Crop ain't goin' nowhere for a loooooooooooooooooooooong time.

The EF-S format lets you get quality, lightweight, inexpensive gear. It's a marvelous format. It's even the perfect smaller format than 135; 1.6 is Phi, the Golden Ratio. Considering that modern EF-S equipment is handily outperforming 135 film on everything but shallowness of depth of field, and that 135 film was for, like, forever, the gold standard in quality consumer-level and fast-paced professional photography, you can bet your bottom dollar that it's here to stay.

Me? I shoot nothing but full frame. I wouldn't even mind medium format or larger for some of what I do...but, on the other hand, I can get sharper 16" x 24" prints out of my gear than the Ansel Adams prints I've seen in museum galleries, so I really don't have anything to complain about.

Cheers,

b&

 

[mws]

I agree with smirkypants. I don't know when, but I think eventually everything will be full frame. Or maybe even some new dimension.

How large would a camera phone be with a FF sensor?? Somehow, I don't think this is the case, tiny cameras are in demand.

Should have clarified, stand alone camera, not cell phone etc.

Who knows, maybe in the distant future we will have some entirely new technology that we don't even comprehend today that allows cell phones (or whatever replaces them in the future) to take photos on par with modern SLRs.

 

[awinphoto]

I dont think they will do away with the 1.6, but I can see the wedge growing even deeper between the two... The xxd probably will remain xxd, but will really start slipping in class and feature sets or may kinda keep it's current features but become the glorified rebel. I think the 7d will be the king of the crops for canon, but IQ as it get more jam packed with pixels vs the full frames will be enough to want to jump ship to full frame... EF-s lenses sales probably outpace EF non L and L lenses combined, plus unlike nikon and 3rd party, unless they go mirrorless, they cannot use ef-s on full frame, so in camera cropping has a whole new hurdle. Canon has a great hierarchy and a clear upgrade path, see neuro as an example. I dont see them foregoing the lower end cameras as they are what get people invested in canon emotionally and financially.

 

[unfocused]

Here we go again.

Eventually all DSLRs will be obsolete. And, eventually, we will all be dead.

In the meantime, these proclamations about the "death" of one particular format are beyond silly. But, just for the sake of argument, what sign is there of any decline in the APS-C format?

• Is it that the price of a full frame camera is now more that twice the cost of a comparably equipped APS-C camera?
  
• Is it that every manufacturer has now settled on two sensor formats for enthusiast and professional level cameras? (Canon dumping the 1.3 format from the DSLR lineup and other manufacturers migrating to APS-C for their top-end mirror less models, as in the Fuji X-Pro 1)
  
  
• Is it that after the initial excitement has worn off, the top 20 Amazon DSLR best sellers currently list 16 APS-C cameras and only four full-frame cameras?
  
• Is it that in a world where the vast majority of images will never be viewed at more than 72 dpi on computer screens and tablet devices, the differences between APS-C and Full Frame are detectable only at the highest ISO ranges, massive print sizes or by zooming in on an image on a computer screen?

Please, I know all the 5DIII buyers have to justify their purchases to themselves. But if you are going to make "proclamations" like this, how about offering some real world evidence of your claims? Is all this just based on some vague fear that the market cannot support two different formats and full frame shooters are afraid to be the ones who bet on Betamax? Stop worrying about it. There is plenty of evidence the market is big enough for both formats and even if full frame does die out, it will still be around for quite some time.

 

[awinphoto]

Here we go again.

Eventually all DSLRs will be obsolete. And, eventually, we will all be dead.

In the meantime, these proclamations about the "death" of one particular format are beyond silly. But, just for the sake of argument, what sign is there of any decline in the APS-C format?

• Is it that the price of a full frame camera is now more that twice the cost of a comparably equipped APS-C camera?
  
• Is it that every manufacturer has now settled on two sensor formats for enthusiast and professional level cameras? (Canon dumping the 1.3 format from the DSLR lineup and other manufacturers migrating to APS-C for their top-end mirror less models, as in the Fuji X-Pro 1)
  
  
• Is it that after the initial excitement has worn off, the top 20 Amazon DSLR best sellers currently list 16 APS-C cameras and only four full-frame cameras?
  
• Is it that in a world where the vast majority of images will never be viewed at more than 72 dpi on computer screens and tablet devices, the differences between APS-C and Full Frame are detectable only at the highest ISO ranges, massive print sizes or by zooming in on an image on a computer screen?

Please, I know all the 5DIII buyers have to justify their purchases to themselves. But if you are going to make "proclamations" like this, how about offering some real world evidence of your claims? Is all this just based on some vague fear that the market cannot support two different formats and full frame shooters are afraid to be the ones who bet on Betamax? Stop worrying about it. There is plenty of evidence the market is big enough for both formats and even if full frame does die out, it will still be around for quite some time.

couldn't agree more.

 

[KeithR]

What Unfocused said...

Especially this bit:

• Is it that in a world where the vast majority of images will never be viewed at more than 72 dpi on computer screens and tablet devices, the differences between APS-C and Full Frame are detectable only at the highest ISO ranges, massive print sizes or by zooming in on an image on a computer screen?

 

[AJ]

yup.

Especially the bit about 5D3 buyers having to justify their expense.

 

[risc32]

actually i did bet on betamax, and it did out live and outperform vhs. Sure in the long run we'll all be dead, but i still bet i'm right. but god and my wife know i'm mostly wrong. either way, it's not like it matters to me or anyone for years to come. I thought of something that hasn't been replaced by some new cheap little thing thats also better. a properly setup vidikron "vision one". i think they were 40k back in 98' or so. no tuner, no scaler(another 20k back then for a quad jobby) no sound. nothing but pure awesomeness when tuned in. holy cow, it makes me think of the parallels to my 63+year old 4x5. hmmm.