Comparing AF-tracking 7D, 60D and 70D

[fussy III]

Hi,

My needs: APS-C-body that will track birds in flight accurately.

The recent talks claim the coming 70D would be equipped with the AF of the 7D. Most people seem to agree that this would make the 70D better than the 60D. However, my experiences with the 7D and 60D were different. I sold my 7D because I got many more hits of birds in flight with the 60D, simply because its tracking abilities were much more accurate, regardless of settings. I should mention that I am more than reasonably experienced with the matter.

I think the new 70D specs are great, but resorting to my personal experience, I'd wish it had retained the AF of the 60D rather than working with the unreliable and bitchy 7D's.

Anyone besides me had a chance to compare 7D and 60D in the field side by side?

Any of those actually would confirm the 7D is better?

In the future, I'd be thankful for any direct comparisons of AF among 70D and the other cameras, even including EOS 1D Mark IV (which is clearly better for birds than the 60Ds from my experience, bjut too heavy for some purposes).

Cheers

 

[garyknrd]

Never tired the 60D but have the 7D. My personal opinion of that camera for BIF is, it is extremely poor. Just from that alone I will not consider the 70D.

 

[Don Haines]

I think we are going to have to wait and see....

I found that the 60D tracks BIF well IF you can keep the central AF point on the bird.... once it goes off, you are screwed... Cameras like the 5D3 and 1DX have "zone" focus (I have never used one) and it is supposed to track moving objects much better... the computing power to be able to do this well is a recent addition to DSLR's...

The 70D should have about 9X the computing power of the 7D.... how it is used is anyone's guess, but it does raise the possibility of better focusing than the 7D. Yes, it's the same number of points, but with 9X the computing power and a four or five year newer set of algorithms, I would expect better performance....

and what happens to the 70D will ripple through later body releases.... this is a very anticipated release.

P.S. I was shooting Osperys yesterday with a 60D... good focus with a 70-200F4IS.... tracked the bird quite well, but if I "lost" the bird I would not get focus back.... had this happen several times

 

[garyknrd]

Never tired the 60D but have the 7D. My personal opinion of that camera for BIF is, it is extremely poor. Just from that alone I will not consider the 70D. I am beside myself trying to figure what direction to take. I love crop sensor cameras for birding. Seems Canon has abandoned top of the line of crop sensor cameras. As much as I hate to shelve the canon glass. If Pentax puts out a quality crop sensor camera Canon is going on the shelf. The K-5 is almost there as a pro-summer crop. I think the next one will be just enough to push me back to Pentax and Sigma fast primes. The Sigma primes are almost as good as Canon IMO.

 

[Deleted member 42026]

The 60d can't hold a candle tracking birds next to the 7d.

Someone I know sold their 60d immediately after testing my 7d. The 70d? Well who knows yet.

 

[fussy III]

Never tired the 60D but have the 7D. My personal opinion of that camera for BIF is, it is extremely poor. Just from that alone I will not consider the 70D. I am beside myself trying to figure what direction to take. I love crop sensor cameras for birding. Seems Canon has abandoned top of the line of crop sensor cameras. As much as I hate to shelve the canon glass. If Pentax puts out a quality crop sensor camera Canon is going on the shelf. The K-5 is almost there as a pro-summer crop. I think the next one will be just enough to push me back to Pentax and Sigma fast primes. The Sigma primes are almost as good as Canon IMO.

Hi again ,
I can see what you are saying, Gary. I'm a birder as well, but even more so, I am a photographer. So I never carry a telescope and do my long-range observation on the swivel of the 60D using my 500/4.0. Besides I am photographing very shy mammals in deserts and steppes and here, the 500/4.0 sometimes seems unneccassarily heavy. So I am hoping for an ultra-high-resolving (thus cropable) 500/5.6 L IS USM or 600/5.6 L IS USM and a camera that will make the most of it AF-wise so that I can switch from mammals to falcons if needed.

At the moment, a Nikon D300S with the new AF-S 80-400 would probably come closest to these needs. And this IMO might be a combination perhaps preferrable to switching to Pentax. Should Nikon come up with a lens as mentioned above, I would definately buy into the system, as Nikon AF works pretty well at 5.6 from what I have seen.

Best

 

[whothafunk]

just buy a 7D or 70D (when its released), 60D is obviously the underdog here. you will find more answers on photography-on-the-net.

 

[Dylan777]

Prior to my 5D III - I had 40D, 60D, 7D and 5D II and the best AF system out of these 4 was 7D.

In AI Servo, AF expansion is so much easy to track kid, flying bird or any moving subject. My camera was set in case 2.

Now, I'm shooting with 5D III - both 5D III were set to case #2, 4 or 8points AF expansion mode in AI Servo. Keepers are 8-9 out of 10 @ max speed frame rate.

Rumor 70D specs looks good. I would take 19AF crosstype over current 60D AF anydays.

 

[MK5GTI]

for tracking capabilities, Nikon actually do a better job. Their D7100 coverage is another bonus, as well as the 1.3x on top of the 1.5 crop.

just go buy one from best buy and if you dont like it, refund it

 

[garyknrd]

Never tired the 60D but have the 7D. My personal opinion of that camera for BIF is, it is extremely poor. Just from that alone I will not consider the 70D. I am beside myself trying to figure what direction to take. I love crop sensor cameras for birding. Seems Canon has abandoned top of the line of crop sensor cameras. As much as I hate to shelve the canon glass. If Pentax puts out a quality crop sensor camera Canon is going on the shelf. The K-5 is almost there as a pro-summer crop. I think the next one will be just enough to push me back to Pentax and Sigma fast primes. The Sigma primes are almost as good as Canon IMO.

Hi again ,
I can see what you are saying, Gary. I'm a birder as well, but even more so, I am a photographer. So I never carry a telescope and do my long-range observation on the swivel of the 60D using my 500/4.0. Besides I am photographing very shy mammals in deserts and steppes and here, the 500/4.0 sometimes seems unneccassarily heavy. So I am hoping for an ultra-high-resolving (thus cropable) 500/5.6 L IS USM or 600/5.6 L IS USM and a camera that will make the most of it AF-wise so that I can switch from mammals to falcons if needed.

At the moment, a Nikon D300S with the new AF-S 80-400 would probably come closest to these needs. And this IMO might be a combination perhaps preferrable to switching to Pentax. Should Nikon come up with a lens as mentioned above, I would definately buy into the system, as Nikon AF works pretty well at 5.6 from what I have seen.

Best

We have pretty similar lenses. It gets heavy. I went with an older IV and love it for the AF. The only thing is it is god awful heavy. Combined with the lens it is getting unbearable. Anyway good luck. If it were me and you can lug around a 1D body get the IV used. Best thing I ever did anyway.

Gary

 

[Krob78]

The 60d can't hold a candle tracking birds next to the 7d.

Someone I know sold their 60d immediately after testing my 7d. The 70d? Well who knows yet.

Thanks you for your reply. But I must be poking you: From what I read, I can't tell whether you or your friend actually ever compared the cameras side by side tracking birds. You seem very sure about the qualities of the 7D, but did you personally try a 60D? Neither do you mention which criteria led your friend to his decision. Perhaps he did not compare tracking either and maybe was relying on general AF-speed rather than on accuracy.

You seem very sure about the qualities of the 7D, but did you personally try a 60D?

I had both. I returned the 60d within a few days after taking it to Key West for some BIF images. I picked up the 7D, went back to South Florida went after the BIF and never looked back. The 60d doesn't come near the AF capabilities of the 7D, especially once you set up the custom functions in the 7D to maximize it's AF systems best capabilities...

After my experience, I would never recommend the 60D for BIF. Not that some bif shots can't be had, they can but not at the same keeper rate, by a long shot. Also, that doesn't mean the 60D doesn't take good wildlife images or Static bird images, just far from the best at BIF.

 

[fussy III]

Never tired the 60D but have the 7D. My personal opinion of that camera for BIF is, it is extremely poor. Just from that alone I will not consider the 70D. I am beside myself trying to figure what direction to take. I love crop sensor cameras for birding. Seems Canon has abandoned top of the line of crop sensor cameras. As much as I hate to shelve the canon glass. If Pentax puts out a quality crop sensor camera Canon is going on the shelf. The K-5 is almost there as a pro-summer crop. I think the next one will be just enough to push me back to Pentax and Sigma fast primes. The Sigma primes are almost as good as Canon IMO.

Hi again ,
I can see what you are saying, Gary. I'm a birder as well, but even more so, I am a photographer. So I never carry a telescope and do my long-range observation on the swivel of the 60D using my 500/4.0. Besides I am photographing very shy mammals in deserts and steppes and here, the 500/4.0 sometimes seems unneccassarily heavy. So I am hoping for an ultra-high-resolving (thus cropable) 500/5.6 L IS USM or 600/5.6 L IS USM and a camera that will make the most of it AF-wise so that I can switch from mammals to falcons if needed.

At the moment, a Nikon D300S with the new AF-S 80-400 would probably come closest to these needs. And this IMO might be a combination perhaps preferrable to switching to Pentax. Should Nikon come up with a lens as mentioned above, I would definately buy into the system, as Nikon AF works pretty well at 5.6 from what I have seen.

Best

We have pretty similar lenses. It gets heavy. I went with an older IV and love it for the AF. The only thing is it is god awful heavy. Combined with the lens it is getting unbearable. Anyway good luck. If it were me and you can lug around a 1D body get the IV used. Best thing I ever did anyway.

Gary

Hi,

Oh, I did buy a used MIV and I am very happy with it when I am stationary. It just happens to be too heavy to consider it for my hiking in the desert, because I always carry two bodies and make these LP-E6-bodies (60D and 5D II) so that I can save on both body-weight and accessory weight. It is unlikely I am going to buy another 7D. Besides positive comments here, I realize I lost all trust in it and I am still quite certain it will not be anywhere close to the Mark IV or 5D III AF-wise. Guess I'll wait for what the 70D and 7D Mark II will bring and if they are inferior to the 5D III's AF, I will buy this one instead and crop if necassary. But let's hope both 70D and 7D II will match the 5D III or MIV.

Best

 

[pj1974]

The 7D's AF system is quite different to other Canon crop bodies AF (eg xxD, xxxD, etc).

Many people initially took some time to get used to it, and realise the full potential of the 7D's AF (eg adjusting custom settings, and practicing technique for a high keeper rate).

Yes, I have the 7D - and can verify when one knows how to use it, the 7D's AF system runs circles around what is possible with the 60D's AF. I've captured highly regarded photos using the 7D - which were with difficult AF scenarios - including BIF and some sport).

Or maybe 1 or 2 people here had a 7D with 'dud' AF?

I've very happy with my 7D... and look forward to what the 70D and 7DmkII will offer!

Paul

 

[ashmadux]

Maybe i didnt master my usage of the 7ds af, but it failed overall before i was able to get to that point. the af never recovered.

The Af point spread was spectacular though, utterly shaming the 6d's pathetic spread. I kept reading about advancethis/advanced that regarding the 7f af but i never really thought it was abig deal besides its learning capabilities. There a few modes to choose from, and an tracking adjustments, but other than that i personally didnt find anything there that was so much more critically awesome than standard point setups.

Thanks to nikon for pushing the boundaries, as canon seems like they dont want to put in any work on their bodies that dont cost 2k+. They have been playing it lazy for some time.

I would buy another 7d - a v2- if they just swapped the craptastic sensor and that problematic "advanced" af with versions that are not highly prone to failure, like what i experienced.

The body itself is gold. LOVED it.

 

[Deleted member 42026]

Sorry, I should have given more info.

That persons 60d was his backup to a 5d2 which he's keeping by the way. The 7d has been tested side by side to those 2. This fellow is a pro by the way, been shooting a long time, so have I. The 7d actually stacks very very adequately to the 5d2 in iq if you we're wondering.

For birding or anything that moves the 7d kills both the above. And in iq also kicks the 60d in the guts to a severe undeniable degree. This fellow hasn't yet replaced the 60d he really did immediately sell yet but very very soon will with the 7d or 7d2 if its released this century.

I tried the 60d too. Trust me, it's not comparable. If you want comparable directly you'll have to look at the Nikon d300s or something.

 

[Marsu42]

I sold my 7D because I got many more hits of birds in flight with the 60D, simply because its tracking abilities were much more accurate, regardless of settings. I should mention that I am more than reasonably experienced with the matter.

Ugh? I'm happy for you, but imho the 60d (I've been using it for 2.5 years) is mediocre at tracking because there's zero customizability in the firmware and the af points are too far apart to track small objects - it comes down to single point tracking all the time for me unless an elephant is running straight towards you ... btw you can use focus patterns with Magic Lantern which helps a little.

Reviews shows that the af precision of the older 7d is a bit behind 60d, but for tracking the 7d blows the 60d out of the water, plus the 7d has more fps. The 60d does produce an ok keeper rate if an object doesn't do anything fancy but moves in a predictable path, but that's about it in my experience.

But even the 7d af system is outdated, for today's standard look at the 5d3 or in a more reasonable price class at the Nikon d7100 (af spread & ability to lock on objects) which makes Canon's current aps-c line look like they are from the stone age :-\

 

[whothafunk]

this is the first time i have heard that 7D kicks 60D's testis regarding IQ.

 

[Marsu42]

And in iq also kicks the 60d in the guts to a severe undeniable degree.

this is the first time i have heard that 7D kicks 60D's testis regarding IQ.

It doesn't, that's just wishful thinking or the expectancy that a much more expensive camera must have the better iq. Fact is that it's the other way around: The 7d has more banding due to the dual channel readouts, and which every 18mp generation (60d, Rebels) Canon seems to do some minor tweaks to improve the performance.

Now that Magic Lantern runs with the 7d I'd gladly exchange my 60d for it (for free ) even if the 7d lacks the swivel screen, but the iq isn't the reason but the faster af/fps performance plus afma.

 

[Krob78]

And in iq also kicks the 60d in the guts to a severe undeniable degree.

this is the first time i have heard that 7D kicks 60D's testis regarding IQ.

It doesn't, that's just wishful thinking or the expectancy that a much more expensive camera must have the better iq. Fact is that it's the other way around: The 7d has more banding due to the dual channel readouts, and which every 18mp generation (60d, Rebels) Canon seems to do some minor tweaks to improve the performance.

Now that Magic Lantern runs with the 7d I'd gladly exchange my 60d for it (for free ) even if the 7d lacks the swivel screen, but the iq isn't the reason but the faster af/fps performance plus afma.

I've owned both the 60d and the 7d. The 60d tracking capability should be called tracking inability... It doesn't touch the 7d. That's why I got rid of my 60 so quickly... it never came close. The 7d takes some time to track the learning curve but it's worth the effort and the results always made it worth it in comparison, with regard to keepers... imho...

And as a side note, that's why I have the 5d3 now... the AF System blows away the AF system on my 7d... especially in tracking... ;D

 

[Marsu42]

I've owned both the 60d and the 7d. The 60d tracking capability should be called tracking inability... It doesn't touch the 7d.

Absolutely, I'd even say my/the 60d doesn't do "tracking" at all (nr do any of the 9pt af models) - they simply have "servo af" which does come handy if you want to do some snaps of a moving object and want the camera do do some linear prediction. But you cannot customize anything. the af doesn't lock on an object, it's really a legacy system and completely outdated by today's dlsr standard.