Canon eos 77D

[superdrive25]

77D seems to be better than 70D:

- Faster DIGIC 7 processor on 77D compared to DIGIC 5+ on 70D
- More Dual Pixel AF points on 77D (45) compared to just 19 on 70D
- Bluetooth on 77D
- New guided user interface on 77D
- 1080p/60 fps IPB on 77D
- HDR on 77D
- ISO up to 25600 vs 12800 on 70D
- 24.2 megapixel sensor on 77D vs 20.2 on 70D

 

[Sharlin]

77D seems to be better than 70D:

70D seems to be better than 77D:

• AFMA
• Larger pentaprism OVF
• A C mode
• Larger battery
• 7 vs 6 fps
• Weather sealing

The point is, the bodies are not directly comparable. The 77D, obviously, is more modern, but the 70D has those traditional "xxD" features that the 77D apparently does not.

 

[scyrene]

(I have heard some people argue that recomposing can actually cause a miss-focus due the recompose, I have not noticed that, maybe because I don't have any 1.2 or 1.4 lenses, but for me recompose works every time)

These are stunning shots, but it's rather easy to say 'keep the AF point on the bird' and rather harder in practice. *Especially* with a fairly near foreground (i.e. anything but the sky), the camera much prefers to focus on the background, and keeping faster/more erratic birds under the active AF point can be very difficult indeed, especially with super-tele lenses.

Yes, it takes practice, but to state, as some have, that the camera's AF system cannot do it is not correct. That was my point. Along with not dismissing AF capability. These cameras are just tools. We need to be able to keep up our end of the deal as photographers.

That's fair. And we're asking a lot of the equipment in this case. To be honest, I haven't even figured out precisely what AF settings are best - I rather wish there was a 'bird in flight' mode!

 

[superdrive25]

Question is does 77D comes with the ISO 160 multiples?

 

[Sharlin]

Question is does 77D comes with the ISO 160 multiples?

From official Canon specs:

ISO Sensitivity
Auto (100-25600), 100-25600 (in 1/3-stop or whole stop increments)
ISO can be expanded to H: 51200

 

[drmikeinpdx]

77D Sensor

I was hoping that the new 77D would have the same well-reviewed sensor that is found in the 80D. Most of the early "hands on" reviews don't confirm that, so I was looking around the net and found this:

Canon EOS 77D review: New sensor
24.2MP APS-C sensor is all new
Not a back-lit design
ISO 100-25,600 (51,200 extended)
Latest Digic 7 processor
Full HD video to 60fps
On paper the 77D's sensor looks to be the very same 24.2-megapixel one as you'll find in the 80D. That's not precisely the case, however, as it's a new construction, paired with the latest Digic 7 processor.

Here's the link: http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/140226-canon-eos-77d-preview-lucky-7s-for-the-80d-lite

If it's not the same sensor, I'm going to wait until we see some sensor tests published before I buy.

Has anyone seen any other references to the sensor other than simply the number of pixels?

 

[AvTvM]

yes, there was mention in a post here - probably in this very thread - that 77D sensor has slightly different size (by 1/10 mm) than 80D sensor - also indicating that it is a different sensor.

 

[Ozzy666]

Many guys pointed to the lack of AF micro adjustment, but i think it is still not getting enough attention and being overlooked. For me it is make or break feature. Mirrorless cameras simply have no problem with lens adjustment due to their nature, so for Canon logically thinking this is a must be feature to be included in all cameras regardless of price. Why on earth to buy camera and invest in lenses if they are not perfectly matched to each other even being from the same brand? I have 60mm macro which is missing perfect focus by couple of cm , yes I'm trying to overcome this problem by focusing two cm further but this is ridiculous. I have the same problem with my 70-200 to lesser degree. So Canon cameras only starts from 80d for 1000$.
Sold my Rebel T4i and started to look toward Fuji xt1, liked the quality, colors, EVF but not that tiny grip and also expensive lenses. When i saw the news about 77 then started to hope that price will be right and with AF micro adjust I will buy it probably. Unfortunately this is not the case. Overpriced and no AFMA making it inferior again. Jesus! 900$ body and no match for their own lenses. Unbelievable.This is not premium or luxury feature.Just necessity.However if they cannot upgrade motor for 50mm 1.4 in 25 years no questions left.

 

[K]

I'm not sure I understand this model at all...(77D).

It seems to run contrary to the trend of specialization and consolidation of DSLR body types in a shrinking DSLR market place.

That and there's a LOT of overlap between this model and the 70D, 80D and some parts of the Rebel line. Begs the question - what is the purpose of this DSLR?

My first impression was -- this kinda undermines the 80D. Look, I get all the subtle pro features like AFMA and whatnot. But overall, the bulk of the specs which most consumers would look at are a direct competitor to the 80D.

With Rebel line cameras getting strong features, and the 7D2 price dropping -- these inbetween APS-C cameras are getting squeezed it would seem.

I looks like the 77D is basically an 80D in a Rebel format with the crappy Rebel handling.

I don't know. I think the 80D should have had a dual card slot to really solidify it as an entry-level pro APS-C, with the 7D2 of course being the flagship. Similar to Nikon, who has the D7200 and D500. D7200 is one hell of a high end APS-C stills camera. Canon's edge here, forcing a non-comparison is the articulating screen, DPAF and video capability. On stills, the D7200 destroys Canon for better sensor, better AF, dual SD, metering.... But can't even come close in video.

In this realm, Canon gambles that video is important to users. I think they are right to some extent. For enthusiasts or dads looking for a family camera, the 80D line for the money allows one to skip out on buying a high end video camera. DPAF with articulating touch screen is really that good.


Some of you snobs might scoff at me calling the 80D entry level pro. Well, there's a lot of people shooting for money still using the 60D and 70D....Even chain stores like Picture People are running 60D. These cameras are being used for pro applications, but Canon does not treat the camera as such.

 

[benkam]

The 77D makes perfect sense as the eventual trickle-down of DPAF for the Canon bodies.

It does not undermine the 80D. In a sense, the 80D undermines it. But in the end, the 77D and 80D both present consumers with a great choice.

You want DPAF but don't like the 80D's larger body and are willing to give up weather sealing, a larger battery, and a headphone jack to keep it down to Rebel size? Then go get the 77D.

You want DPAF and also want weather sealing, a larger battery, a headphone jack and are willing to carry, or even desire, a larger body? Then go get the 80D.

This also bodes well for the 80D successor. To create more separation with the 77D and the 80D, the "90D" (or whatever it will be called) will have to offer more, not just a new sensor, 4K, but alos maybe some kind of improved DPAF, an extra fps to bring it to original 7D speed, dual card slots, while keeping the more robust and bigger form factor. And with the 77D and 80D sharing key technology, Canon might have to bring it the 80D successor a lot sooner than what would usually be expected of them.

 

[Talys]

The 77D makes perfect sense as the eventual trickle-down of DPAF for the Canon bodies.

It does not undermine the 80D. In a sense, the 80D undermines it. But in the end, the 77D and 80D both present consumers with a great choice.

You want DPAF but don't like the 80D's larger body and are willing to give up weather sealing, a larger battery, and a headphone jack to keep it down to Rebel size? Then go get the 77D.

You want DPAF and also want weather sealing, a larger battery, a headphone jack and are willing to carry, or even desire, a larger body? Then go get the 80D.

Yup, I totally agree. The 77D's biggest problem right now is that the street prices of 80D (especially from resellers who split up kits or resell international copies from other regions) are practically the same, or sometimes less, than the 77D.

This also bodes well for the 80D successor. To create more separation with the 77D and the 80D, the "90D" (or whatever it will be called) will have to offer more, not just a new sensor, 4K, but alos maybe some kind of improved DPAF, an extra fps to bring it to original 7D speed, dual card slots, while keeping the more robust and bigger form factor. And with the 77D and 80D sharing key technology, Canon might have to bring it the 80D successor a lot sooner than what would usually be expected of them.

80D Mk2? I think that a 80D successor coming sooner rather than later will help 77D sales, more than anything. It will allow more pricing separation, too.

I think 4K would be the big, splashy feature (though this might rain on new 7D's parade). Really good 5GHz WiFi to allow fast transfer of RAW to desktop PC over WiFi would make me buy it instantly. Some more UI refinements would be welcome. There will definitely be Bluetooth, and while I'd definitely get a BT trigger, it's not a reason to jump on a new body.

I think that AF only has a little room for improvement now; most people with DPAF are pretty satisfied with focus speed. Dual card slots will probably be saved for xD models. Maybe more megapixels?

 

[benkam]

80D Mk2? I think that a 80D successor coming sooner rather than later will help 77D sales, more than anything. It will allow more pricing separation, too.

I think 4K would be the big, splashy feature (though this might rain on new 7D's parade). Really good 5GHz WiFi to allow fast transfer of RAW to desktop PC over WiFi would make me buy it instantly. Some more UI refinements would be welcome. There will definitely be Bluetooth, and while I'd definitely get a BT trigger, it's not a reason to jump on a new body.

I think that AF only has a little room for improvement now; most people with DPAF are pretty satisfied with focus speed. Dual card slots will probably be saved for xD models. Maybe more megapixels?

Good stuff. Apart from new sensor and 4K, the logical next major step for the 80D successor, would be to inherit the 7D2's 65-point AF (the 7D3 then moves up to an even more sophisticated AF system). The 80D successor might even get an AF thumbstick (or could also just rely on the touchscreen) and it's due for dual card slots too.

As with the 760D successor becoming the 77D, I'd hazard to speculate that crammed will all those good stuff, the 80D successor could be promoted to single-digit status. Thus, it could become the "8D" right behind the speed specialist, more rugged 7D-series. Or if the 8D is deemed confusing as 80D successor, and to also signal a progression through the numbering, Canon could always call it the 9D.

 

[drmikeinpdx]

I was hoping the new 77D would be like a mini 80D, but that's looking unlikely. I may just stick with my old T5i as my walk around camera for another couple of years.

I would have paid a good price for a miniaturized 80D, but Canon's marketing people apparently don't want to offer a product like that.

 

[Sharlin]

I would have paid a good price for a miniaturized 80D, but Canon's marketing people apparently don't want to offer a product like that.

They do provide one, though, it's called the M5. There's probably much more demand for that one than for a hypothetical Rebel-sized 80D DSLR.

 

[mistaspeedy]

Hopefully the 77D will have an even better sensor than the 80D, some sort of small refinement other than the new ISO 25600.
Maybe we'll get that higher ISO dynamic range up a bit more, to at least match the older models (760D and 7D mark II) as can be seen in the Dxomark data:
https://gyazo.com/870e7bf2bbec9343a740d9bb09fa17b5

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Hopefully the 77D will have an even better sensor than the 80D, some sort of small refinement other than the new ISO 25600.
Maybe we'll get that higher ISO dynamic range up a bit more, to at least match the older models (760D and 7D mark II) as can be seen in the Dxomark data:
https://gyazo.com/870e7bf2bbec9343a740d9bb09fa17b5

It looks like the same 80D image sensor, but JPEG image processing promises high ISO better a whole stop on the new 77D.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31992.0

 

[LonelyBoy]

They do provide one, though, it's called the M5. There's probably much more demand for that one than for a hypothetical Rebel-sized 80D DSLR.

You are, probably, correct, but can the M5's AF track a person running towards the camera as well as PD? Handing the wife an 80D to shoot at a race would probably be a non-starter.

It's also frustrating to not be able to get a body with a flippy screen and a joystick. Or dual cards.

 

[drmikeinpdx]

DPReview seems to think that the sensor in the 77D is the same one found in the 80D. I have no idea if that's true. Guess we will have to wait until Canon allows people to publish their reviews.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5322759563/buyers-guide-canon-eos-rebel-t7i-800d-vs-eos-77d-vs-eos-80d

"The Rebel T7i, EOS 77D and EOS 80D share the same 24MP APS-C CMOS sensor. This sensor sees a significant improvement in Raw dynamic range over previous Canon sensors, though still falls behind most competitors. The Rebel and 77D have Canon's latest Digic 7 processor, compared to the Digic 6 on the 80D. Canon claims that the Digic 7 provides a full-stop improvement in JPEG high ISO noise levels compared to Digic 6, though comparing the Digic 7-powered EOS M5 against the 80D seems to contradict that. Raw noise performance in low light should be similar between all models."

 

[rrcphoto]

Re: 77D Sensor

I was hoping that the new 77D would have the same well-reviewed sensor that is found in the 80D. Most of the early "hands on" reviews don't confirm that, so I was looking around the net and found this:

Canon EOS 77D review: New sensor
24.2MP APS-C sensor is all new
Not a back-lit design
ISO 100-25,600 (51,200 extended)
Latest Digic 7 processor
Full HD video to 60fps
On paper the 77D's sensor looks to be the very same 24.2-megapixel one as you'll find in the 80D. That's not precisely the case, however, as it's a new construction, paired with the latest Digic 7 processor.

Here's the link: http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/140226-canon-eos-77d-preview-lucky-7s-for-the-80d-lite

If it's not the same sensor, I'm going to wait until we see some sensor tests published before I buy.

Has anyone seen any other references to the sensor other than simply the number of pixels?

hmm is that the "new sensor" that is in the M5 perhaps?

there's one thing to note. Canon USED to update it's sensors with nearly every camera release in the past. IMO, the "lurch" at 18MP was canon getting new fab design rules and equipment updated in their fabs, so they left the old equipment spew out sensors for as long as they could.

Now it seems canon's back into it's game of creating new sensors each go around. hopefully better, but it's hard to say.

 

[rrcphoto]

DPReview seems to think that the sensor in the 77D is the same one found in the 80D. I have no idea if that's true. Guess we will have to wait until Canon allows people to publish their reviews.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5322759563/buyers-guide-canon-eos-rebel-t7i-800d-vs-eos-77d-vs-eos-80d

"The Rebel T7i, EOS 77D and EOS 80D share the same 24MP APS-C CMOS sensor. This sensor sees a significant improvement in Raw dynamic range over previous Canon sensors, though still falls behind most competitors. The Rebel and 77D have Canon's latest Digic 7 processor, compared to the Digic 6 on the 80D. Canon claims that the Digic 7 provides a full-stop improvement in JPEG high ISO noise levels compared to Digic 6, though comparing the Digic 7-powered EOS M5 against the 80D seems to contradict that. Raw noise performance in low light should be similar between all models."

normal liveview for canon DSLR's is I think 30hz - could be 60, but I think it's 30.

M5's sensor is running at 120hz for liveview.