Dissuade me to get a Rolleiflex

[funkboy]

I won't dissuade you because the Rolleiflex is a brilliant camera.
The Mamiya TLRs are also great and are more flexible.
However the purity of the fixed lens is, to my mind, more in keeping with the pleasure of having a great walking around camera as opposed to the superhuman problem-solving capabilities of a more complex "pro" system.

That's an interesting perspective. The Rollei is certainly a lot more portable than the Mamiya, & possibly more "inspiring" to use (I can't really comment on either; I've handled TLRs before a little bit but never really done any work with one). The C330s is certainly pretty heavy.

My perspective is that the most advanced C-series camera can be had in excellent condition from a good shop for $200, which is 10x less than the Rolleiflex the O.P. was looking at. For something that I would only trot out occasionally at best or use for some special situations, I'd have a hard time spending much more than that on it.

 

[funkboy]

BTW other than compatibility with more cameras, does anyone have any idea why 220 film is so scarce?

B&H has ~60 120 film options, but only Kodak Portra in 220 (& @ $75 for a 5-pack it's not exactly affordable).

If someone comes up with a functional digital back adapter for these TLRs then their resale value would skyrocket...

 

[yeahyoung]

I love my like new Yashica 124G which I got for $100.

 

[yeahyoung]

I'm lost in South west China but thanks for the proposal. Actually the place also matters in the price. I'm sure I could shave a couple hundred easily on the price if I was in the US or EUR. But I don't want to buy online (test + risks of shipping) so there is a probablepremium of buying in such a remote place. I might make a trip to HK soon too.

As someone from China, I can tell you that HK is the place to go if you want more options and much cheaper prices.

 

[Vivid Color]

Dear Grumbaki: You've not really said why you might want this camera, but you did ask us to dissuade you.

Since I don't know why you want the camera or what you want to do with it, I'll just ask you: What else could you do with $2300?

Another way to think about it is: What aren't you going to be able to do if you spend $2300 on this particular camera?

Dear Vivid, your first question is one of the good point in the con side. That amount can be spend on a trip with my modern gear. I'm Lucky (and working my ass off) enough so that the second one is not that relevant. But yeah, 2300 could be used up for something else...but not in the bank.

As to the why this camera:
- I really love the "whole format", the "belly shooting".
- Film can be a pain but the restraint it imposes usually make me a better photographer. I think I already posted about my outings with a 1Gb CF (13 exposures on a 5d3 shooting full raw) and the lcd blackened out to emulate the case.
- Native Square. Personnal taste for compositon.
- It's not like there is an option for medium format shooting around 2k USD. Replicas are generally toys in term of output. This one (and the Hassels like 500C I had the chance to try out...but Im more a TLR guy) have very good outputs even in our digital area. Those modern medium format are, to my knowledge, the only option for belly shooting and they are around what? 10K?
- Except if I truly mishandle it, there is little chance of loosing much value if I purchase smartly. This is not an investment but not a perishable item like our dslr.
- Pure admiration for engineering/craftmanship. That point is kinda moot but that stuff is a piece of beauty like watches or old cars can be. I mean... hand polished lenses...!
- Ice breaker. That's mentionned in every review and I could notice it with the Hasselblad. Poeple are weary of DSLR but they are drawn to those pieces of curio or nostalgia. (except the unavoidable grumpy photog that think you should leave it in a museum).

Writing all those explanations doesnt really help as your point and the fact that I don't have much time to shoot are the only 2 points on the con side.

Any debunking of my pros?

(I know this is a weird GAS thread...thanks for the answers!)

Dear Grumbaki, They are your "pros" and preferences I see my role here as mostly asking questions to help you think through all of your options. The one thing I will follow up on though, is your statement about not having much time for shooting. So then the issue is whether you want to get this camera now or wait until you can use it more. I have no idea how often these types of cameras in excellent condition come on the market. But one way I tend to think about cost when I'm thinking about buying something is on per use basis. So if it's something that I'm going to use all the time, I tend to be willing to spend more money --often a lot more money – than if it something I'll use rarely or only on occasion. So here are some more questions: what is the downside of waiting? Is it possible that by the time you become less busy, you might not want this camera at all? And let's go back to opportunity cost: if you are not going to get much use out of this now, would you feel your money is better spent by going on the nice trip that you mentioned? Or can you get the camera and go on the trip? And lastly, what is your uncertainty about this camera really telling you? I hope these questions help. Let us know what you decide. --Vivid

 

[Grumbaki]

I'm lost in South west China but thanks for the proposal.

As someone from China, I can tell you that HK is the place to go if you want more options and much cheaper prices.

From what I saw in my previous trips, HK is not really that much cheaper for vintage gear. For new stuff sure. But there is for sure more choice. Which is kind of not relevant as the exact model I wished pop'd up (minty 2.8F Planar with meter).
I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego. 14K CNY as first asking price to a laowai tells me I can go down to 12k without difficulty (and that's even before chatting accessories and suchs...I want the damn original box! Was theremanual in chinese? ). If all the mechanical tests are right, anything 12k and under is a decent price even for the US or EUR. (specially since CNY is "tanking" versus EUR recently )

Actually one thing that would make me not pull the trigger is the announcement of a full frame Fuji X100s

Hmmm......
From one extreme to the other............ :

Hehe true but outside of politics, I like the extremes But outside of the prevention of spray and pray by the Rollei, some points are valid (ligthweight, force to be creative thru single lens, discreet). Rollei also adds the ice breaker element, the collector/resale factor and the film (that will partialy be a chore, I know)
Actually I'm not even sure it would prevent me to buy both as the lightweight combo might be awesome with Fuji for fast action and Rollei for quiet "meditative" shooting. Now that is bad GAS

But one way I tend to think about cost when I'm thinking about buying something is on per use basis. So if it's something that I'm going to use all the time, I tend to be willing to spend more money --often a lot more money – than if it something I'll use rarely or only on occasion.

Thanks for the very zen input. I did cut your quote as this part is the central difference. I think in term of costs but not upfront, more long term. Picking up such a camera (with good appraisal of the quality) is like picking up a 200 2.0L for 3K in mint condition. Even if you never use it, as long as you don't break it, you can resell it for the same amout or more...The only cost is actual use (specially with film) and the "lost interests" of the bank account. If I ever need some cash back, it'll go back on the market. With the same idea, that's was I was more reluctant to shell out for body than for glass.

 

[drolo61]

Hi Grumbaki,
I just now read your list of pro's, and the admiration of superb craftsmanship is the main reason for my all-mechanical "film stuff" still sitting on ashelf and - yes, gathering dust. Anytime I try to sell off anything, I feel embarassed to part for relatively little money (that makes no vital difference in my day to day living) from these pieces of beauty. I think of my Nikon FE2: light, reliable, all mechanical and still fully functional. A couple of years ago in my "medium format phase" I traveld with a Hasselblad 500C and a bystander commented on the bright viewfinder "most likely draining the battry really fast". Imagine his surprise...
Whatever you do, GAS is severe, to my knowledge incurable, and very good fun if you dont overspend your existential limits ;.))
Enjoy and Happy Easter

 

[sootzzs]

I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego.

Now that we weren't able to dissuade you from buying the Rollei, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable to hijack this thread. Not only I didn't managed to dissuade you out of buying I got some severe GAS myself in the process . I'm thinking of buying my first TLR. However, I cannot afford to spend more than around 100-120$ including shipping (which unfortunately in my case could mount to 50$ by itself). I've read a bit for the last few days and figured out that my best chances are Super Ricohflex, Czech Flexarete, Yashica A or 635 and maybe with a bit of luck Yashica-mat (not the 124). Even these, for 60-80$ (after shipping deduction) are extremely hard to find in working condition.

Am I missing something here? Are there any "cheap" but reliable TLR's (not Lubitels or Seagulls of course). Or should I pass it for now? My intention is mostly to shoot landscapes and portraits on 120mm B&W film and develop it myself.

Thanks .

 

[Rudeofus]

sootzzs, US$ 120 is not going to to get you very far in medium format, and you also need to take cost for film and processing into account. Shooting landscape with a cheesy camera will only disappoint you.

The cheapest way to get started is an analog EOS camera, that way you can use all your full format lenses and get started with film while you save up for a decent medium format camera.

 

[TAF]

I'll hit the shop on Saturday for more details and start the nego.

Now that we weren't able to dissuade you from buying the Rollei, I'm feeling a bit more comfortable to hijack this thread. Not only I didn't managed to dissuade you out of buying I got some severe GAS myself in the process . I'm thinking of buying my first TLR. However, I cannot afford to spend more than around 100-120$ including shipping (which unfortunately in my case could mount to 50$ by itself). I've read a bit for the last few days and figured out that my best chances are Super Ricohflex, Czech Flexarete, Yashica A or 635 and maybe with a bit of luck Yashica-mat (not the 124). Even these, for 60-80$ (after shipping deduction) are extremely hard to find in working condition.

Am I missing something here? Are there any "cheap" but reliable TLR's (not Lubitels or Seagulls of course). Or should I pass it for now? My intention is mostly to shoot landscapes and portraits on 120mm B&W film and develop it myself.

Thanks .

Hit eBay for a Rollei. The 3.5D and 3.5E sometimes sell for that amount (less the shipping). I got my first 2.8E for not much more (I think I paid $150 for it).

Since you plan on using it, I would avoid the earlier models (the Old Standard etc) as they are getting old enough to likely require servicing. And their internal mirror will be failing (the silver does deteriorate over time, much more so on the pre-war models), and the ground glass isn't nearly as good as 'later' ones (meaning 1960's vintage).

I write that as someone who rarely uses his 1929 Rollei (first year of production). I much prefer the more modern ones.

Also, keep your eye open for one with a built in meter that is broken; you can frequently get a really nice camera with a bad meter cheap. And if the one you are eyeing has a meter, make certain it is working, or offer lots less. I've never had an model Rollei with a working meter (I've gone through quite a few in the last 40 years). Electronics was not their strong suite.

You'll never go wrong with one of their TLR's.

 

[sootzzs]

Thanks for the input guys.

I've settled on working (hopefully) Super Ricohflex for the beginning. 40$+30$ shipping (the shipping from the US abroad is a bit crazy lately. a year ago it was around 15$ I think). From what I've read it should be a nice, basic and solid enough entry TLR. Hopefully it will be such in reality.

The Rolleis+ shipping were way about my limit unfortunately.

 

[traingineer]

Perhaps, but I still love steam locomotives !

Then you'll love this:

Norfolk & Western J 611 is a J-class locomotive built in 1950 in the town where my family has lived for 4 generations. She is the ultimate development of the steam locomotive, having a cruising speed of 110mph with 15 passenger cars. She is also breathtakingly beautiful, the streamlining being part of the key to her speed.

She'd been sitting the in the VA transportation museum since 1995, but a group of concerned citizens have pulled together the money to have her restored to operating condition, starting this month. If all goes according to plan she'll be making the rounds around the eastern USA as part of N&W's 21st century steam program sometime in 2015.

The Deutsche Bahn Class 44 steam loco has been my favourite steam loco.