It seems that in most of these thread's about new body's everyone will be happy if the price goes up 1000 dollars over current 7D body's pricing. I personally am a hobby shooter with about 4 weddings lined up as the 2nd shooter this summer. The thought of spending close to or more than 2g's for a camera is my max budget. That being said I wanted to know what people do for money that makes a 2500 dollar pro-sumer body a good deal?
For those interested in 7D2
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ruuneos
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Well I'm just enthusiastic photographer, so just for fun. But being honest I think I'm not going to upgrade my 7D to 7D2 soon after it's launched.
Investing my moneys to equipment at the moment and after that 2-3 years going for FF or later, I'll see when it's my time to move up on photographer.
Investing my moneys to equipment at the moment and after that 2-3 years going for FF or later, I'll see when it's my time to move up on photographer.
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Uhm... I don't understand the poll.
You offer 'It's just for fun' and 'I'm a business person in an unrelated field' ?
Does the second option mean that the camera is needed even though it isn't directly connected to the field in general? (i.e. a dentist or plastic surgeons who indirectly make money off the camera)
You offer 'It's just for fun' and 'I'm a business person in an unrelated field' ?
Does the second option mean that the camera is needed even though it isn't directly connected to the field in general? (i.e. a dentist or plastic surgeons who indirectly make money off the camera)
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Loswr
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Marine03 said:
Not really sure how it's relevant. When you drive down the highway at 7:30am, there are many Kias and Hyundais, lots of Toyotas and Hondas, and even quite a few Audis and Porsches. The majority of them are people commuting to work. Is a Porsche a 'good deal'? Does the driver need it to get to work? I'm going to vote 'no' on that. But it's fun...
I'm one of those who is interested in the 7DII. I'm hoping for improved ISO noise performance, mainly - otherwise, the current 7D is excellent. I'm not sure I'd find a $2500 7DII with APS-C to be a good deal - at that price, I might not buy one at all. A $2500 7DII with an APS-H sensor, that would be a good deal. A $3800 1D Mark V with a 24 MP APS-H sensor (could be cropped to 16 MP APS-C size) would be a great deal, IMO. The $6800 1D X is not a great deal...but it's a great camera, which is why I've got one pre-ordered.
FWIW, I make my living as a scientist.
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Aren't "Its just for fun" and "I am a business person in an unrelated field" pretty much the same? At least, I don't see much of a distinction.
Echoing the sentiments above, value is in the eye of the beholder. That said, even though photography is only a hobby for me, I am passionate enough about it that I could see spending $2k-$2.5k for a 7DII. What I'll be looking for are improved low light focus ability, less noise at higher ISO, improved DR (not expecting this after 5DIII), 10 fps (not really needed) and while the focus system is already very good, I expect some sort of improvement there in number of points, etc. I don't really need more MP, but also wouldn't mind a small bump up to 22-24 MP range. But the noise, DR, colors, and low light focusing ability are really where I would like to see improvements.
Echoing the sentiments above, value is in the eye of the beholder. That said, even though photography is only a hobby for me, I am passionate enough about it that I could see spending $2k-$2.5k for a 7DII. What I'll be looking for are improved low light focus ability, less noise at higher ISO, improved DR (not expecting this after 5DIII), 10 fps (not really needed) and while the focus system is already very good, I expect some sort of improvement there in number of points, etc. I don't really need more MP, but also wouldn't mind a small bump up to 22-24 MP range. But the noise, DR, colors, and low light focusing ability are really where I would like to see improvements.
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I've owned and sold a 7D and a 5D Mk II, and purchased the 5D Mk III and love it. I hope to make some money from this expensive hobby this year.
I earn a living as a cleared software engineer consulting with the federal government in the Washington DC area. The pay is high, but not like a doctor.
I earn a living as a cleared software engineer consulting with the federal government in the Washington DC area. The pay is high, but not like a doctor.
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PerfectSavage
Shoot more, read blogs less...Just keep shooting.
docsmith said:
Totally agree with the above. Another thing is these subjective terms thrown around like "prosumer" relative to the 7D. The 7D is a PRO camera, the 60D (50D etc) is a PROSUMER camera. The 7D has a better build quality and sealings than the 5DII and equal to the 5D3 and 1Dx. You don't have to be a FF body to be considered a PRO camera. A guy named Drake Doremus shot an entire feature length movie (shot 100%) on the 7D and it won rave reviews at Sundance and was sold to Paramount distribution for $4 million USD, the film was Like Crazy. If you can't afford $2Kish for a camera then my advice is "don't buy it", the 60D is a great camera almost the same as the 7D minus the magnesium alloy housing and a few other specs. Can't afford the 60D? The Txi series are great cameras too. Whoever mentioned the 5DII and 7D are nearly "the same" has clearly never shot with either of them, they are vastly different cameras in every respect other than the Canon name on the front and black color and that they both use EF mount lenses. I bought my first 7D about two months after they were out and the body was $1,699 or $1,799 then, I forget which. So I would assume, IF THEY EVEN INTRODUCE a 7D2 (which I think they will), that the price would be somewhere over $2K but not by much - I'd guess $2299 body, I can't see $2500+ unless they plan to keep the 5D3 at $3500 USD. I'm expecting the 5D3 to drop to around $3100 when the FF studio camera comes out closer to $4K (whether that be a 3D or other aptly named body) Personally right now, I think the 5D2 is the best value out there, while you can still get them. I am trying to decide between a lens and picking up a 5D2 right now since it is such a great value. When they're gone, I think the price for new 5D2s people are holding onto will go up with the 5D3 at $3500. It's basic supply and demand. The question is how many 5D2s are out there, they sold a lot of them last fall when they dropped the price.
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My opinion might be a bit different than the one from a pro in the US or Europe... I work as a photographer and a director of photography, in Argentina. Here, I earn about a fifth of what someone in the US would earn, but I still have to buy gear that costs US dollars, which in turn costs more because I have to import it.
To give you an idea, in a good month (I freelance), I earn around 1000 USD. And I have to pay rent, food, services, and everything I need to live: 900 USD (and I live a very cheap life nowadays).
So buying gear is something I have to think and rethink carefully. I have a 7D and all Samyang/Rokinon primes, but I rent Carl Zeiss optics often, and some gear I don't have.
Considering a 7D costs around 1300 USD (1800 for me), and a 5DmkII 2000 (2800), I would not spend money on a crop sensor camera if it costs more than 1500. It wouldn't make sense to me... unless it comes out with some features that I REALLY need, I wouldn't buy it. I don't care if the ISO gets better by 2 stops. I can add more light if I want (in most of my shoots)... and if not, it'll get a bit noisy. But I (and everyone I know) don't use ISO higher than 1000 anyways.
To give you an idea, in a good month (I freelance), I earn around 1000 USD. And I have to pay rent, food, services, and everything I need to live: 900 USD (and I live a very cheap life nowadays).
So buying gear is something I have to think and rethink carefully. I have a 7D and all Samyang/Rokinon primes, but I rent Carl Zeiss optics often, and some gear I don't have.
Considering a 7D costs around 1300 USD (1800 for me), and a 5DmkII 2000 (2800), I would not spend money on a crop sensor camera if it costs more than 1500. It wouldn't make sense to me... unless it comes out with some features that I REALLY need, I wouldn't buy it. I don't care if the ISO gets better by 2 stops. I can add more light if I want (in most of my shoots)... and if not, it'll get a bit noisy. But I (and everyone I know) don't use ISO higher than 1000 anyways.
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PerfectSavage
Shoot more, read blogs less...Just keep shooting.
lonelywhitelights said:
I don't think anyone considers the prices a "good deal", other than the 5D2 right now, I think it's more "market value/ market price". If the market doesn't sustain a price, it will drop...that you can count on. If I were you, shooting as a hobby and B/C camera for hire at weddings and I was on a tight budget, I'd look hard at the 60D, unless you're shooting weddings outdoors in potential wet conditions. The 60D is a GREAT camera, a baby 7D.
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I'm developer in Japan who just started in photography a little under a year ago. I agree with other people here that I really wish camera gear was less expensive.
That being said, there are features that I want or shots that would be easier to take with a higher grade camera, and the market has these prices and that's just what it costs.
Comparative to other hobbies though, I think photography has a high buy-in cost but the net money spent if you decide to get out is very marginal. So while a $2500 camera might be expensive, if you think that you could sell it for $1500 in 3-4 years time, the real cost of the camera was only $1000. That's how i think of it. And that's what i tell my wife
That being said, there are features that I want or shots that would be easier to take with a higher grade camera, and the market has these prices and that's just what it costs.
Comparative to other hobbies though, I think photography has a high buy-in cost but the net money spent if you decide to get out is very marginal. So while a $2500 camera might be expensive, if you think that you could sell it for $1500 in 3-4 years time, the real cost of the camera was only $1000. That's how i think of it. And that's what i tell my wife
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Like others here, I'm afraid I don't see the point of the poll and so I didn't participate in it.
Biggest problem with the poll, I think, is that it equates earning money with whether or not a person is a serious photographer. I don't earn a living from photography but my interest is more than "just for fun" as well. For me, it is primarily a form of personal expression, primarily through documentation of the world, its people and my journey through life.
Ultimate success for me would be to leave behind a legacy that lasts long after any profits have been spent.
As far as the potential cost of a 7DII, well that's a personal decision that everyone must make. It will be driven by budget, interests, desires, etc. When you read that people are willing to spend nearly $1,000 more than the current street price of the 7D you have to realize a few things.
No one wants the camera to cost any more than is necessary. But, it is a testament to the quality of the 7D that many owners (myself included) are willing to consider paying a premium for a new body that is even better than what we consider to be an excellent camera right now. I think people are trying to be realistic about pricing and preparing for the worst, having seen the price inflation of the 5DIII.
For everyone, there comes a point where the perceived value is not enough to justify the cost. I think people are just trying to articulate where that price point might be for them.
What I find interesting is that most 7D owners on this forum are pretty consistent in what they want. If you were to draw a graph of expressed desires, the bell of the curve would congregate around improved sensor performance and modest upgrades to what is already very good autofocus and build quality. In contrast, higher resolution appears to be somewhere on the toe of the curve. Most 7D owners expressing an opinion on this site seem to be saying they would not object to higher resolution, but only if it doesn't come at the expense of overall sensor quality.
I am an optimist. I think competitive pressures will keep the 7DII within a few hundred dollars of the original 7D's price at introduction. I also have in my mind a pretty good idea of what it will take in terms of features for me to upgrade and how much I might be willing to pay for those features. My belief is that I am a fairly typical 7D owner and that since Canon wants our money they will deliver.
If they don't, well, I still have a great camera in the 7D.
Biggest problem with the poll, I think, is that it equates earning money with whether or not a person is a serious photographer. I don't earn a living from photography but my interest is more than "just for fun" as well. For me, it is primarily a form of personal expression, primarily through documentation of the world, its people and my journey through life.
Ultimate success for me would be to leave behind a legacy that lasts long after any profits have been spent.
As far as the potential cost of a 7DII, well that's a personal decision that everyone must make. It will be driven by budget, interests, desires, etc. When you read that people are willing to spend nearly $1,000 more than the current street price of the 7D you have to realize a few things.
No one wants the camera to cost any more than is necessary. But, it is a testament to the quality of the 7D that many owners (myself included) are willing to consider paying a premium for a new body that is even better than what we consider to be an excellent camera right now. I think people are trying to be realistic about pricing and preparing for the worst, having seen the price inflation of the 5DIII.
For everyone, there comes a point where the perceived value is not enough to justify the cost. I think people are just trying to articulate where that price point might be for them.
What I find interesting is that most 7D owners on this forum are pretty consistent in what they want. If you were to draw a graph of expressed desires, the bell of the curve would congregate around improved sensor performance and modest upgrades to what is already very good autofocus and build quality. In contrast, higher resolution appears to be somewhere on the toe of the curve. Most 7D owners expressing an opinion on this site seem to be saying they would not object to higher resolution, but only if it doesn't come at the expense of overall sensor quality.
I am an optimist. I think competitive pressures will keep the 7DII within a few hundred dollars of the original 7D's price at introduction. I also have in my mind a pretty good idea of what it will take in terms of features for me to upgrade and how much I might be willing to pay for those features. My belief is that I am a fairly typical 7D owner and that since Canon wants our money they will deliver.
If they don't, well, I still have a great camera in the 7D.
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I'm interested in picking up a 7D2 as a backup for my 5D3. Right now I've got a 5D a backup - and after falling in love with the ergonomics, AF system, speed, LCD screen, dual slots, and build quality of the 5D3 - the thought of having to use the 5D in the field ever again makes me cringe 
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Not sure I understand the poll...some of the options seem to duplicate each other.
I work as a professional in another industry, and photography is primarily a hobby. I have been learning the type of photography I love most very heavily this year, though, and I hope to make a side profession out of it in the near future. Currently, the 7D is my primary camera, and I use it very heavily...full day weekends and several times for several hours a day during the week. For what I shoot, the functionality, capabilities, and importantly the crop factor of the 7D serve me extremely well. The only drawback is the IQ, and if I were to ask for just ONE thing in a 7D II, it would be a top-notch APS-C sensor with very low noise at all ISO's and a couple extra stops of ISO (i.e. 25600) with similar performance to the 5D III.
Would I buy one for $2500? No, probably not...that price point would be way out of proportion with what the 7D line offers, particularly vs. the competition and the competition's price point. Would I buy one for $2000 or less, sure. The list price for the 7D was around $1800, which was just about right for back when it was introduced, but it is far too much these days given the IQ. I purchased my 7D for $1300 last year, so introducing its successor for $1200 more (or $700 more than its predecessor's introduction price) is a bit too much to swallow. If you threw in a nice new AF system with at least 41pt/21pt X-type that was similar to the 1D X/5D III 61/41pt AF system, a much better sensor that ALSO offered more resolution (say 24mp, and therefor more cropping power at around f/5.6 or wider), etc. then I'd be much more willing to drop more than $2000 on one.
I work as a professional in another industry, and photography is primarily a hobby. I have been learning the type of photography I love most very heavily this year, though, and I hope to make a side profession out of it in the near future. Currently, the 7D is my primary camera, and I use it very heavily...full day weekends and several times for several hours a day during the week. For what I shoot, the functionality, capabilities, and importantly the crop factor of the 7D serve me extremely well. The only drawback is the IQ, and if I were to ask for just ONE thing in a 7D II, it would be a top-notch APS-C sensor with very low noise at all ISO's and a couple extra stops of ISO (i.e. 25600) with similar performance to the 5D III.
Would I buy one for $2500? No, probably not...that price point would be way out of proportion with what the 7D line offers, particularly vs. the competition and the competition's price point. Would I buy one for $2000 or less, sure. The list price for the 7D was around $1800, which was just about right for back when it was introduced, but it is far too much these days given the IQ. I purchased my 7D for $1300 last year, so introducing its successor for $1200 more (or $700 more than its predecessor's introduction price) is a bit too much to swallow. If you threw in a nice new AF system with at least 41pt/21pt X-type that was similar to the 1D X/5D III 61/41pt AF system, a much better sensor that ALSO offered more resolution (say 24mp, and therefor more cropping power at around f/5.6 or wider), etc. then I'd be much more willing to drop more than $2000 on one.
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PerfectSavage
Shoot more, read blogs less...Just keep shooting.
neuroanatomist said:
Hard to say exactly given the production 1Dx isn't even out yet, no? What is going to be different in the 1Dx from the 5D3 sealing-wise?...because my 5D3 is exactly the same as my 7D in terms of housing (from what I can see/touch at least)
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Loswr
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PerfectSavage said:
Not hard to say at all - Canon has clarified the sealing status. The 1D X has sealing equivalent to the 1D IV (and other recent 1-series bodies). That sealing is a substantial step up from that found on the 7D and 5DIII. Question: have you ever held/used a 1-series body? They're built like tanks - my 7D felt really solid (still does, especially compared to a Rebel), but the 1-series is a noticeable step up.
Much of the sealing is in the form of things you can't see/touch - internal gaskets under buttons, etc. One reason the 1-series lacks a mode selection dial is that the dial is harder to seal than a button. To give one example, the 'weather sealing' under the shutter button on the 7D and 5DIII is a 'manufacturing tolerance' seal, meaning tight assembly is the only protection. The current 1-series bodies have a rubber seal under the button (and much tighter manufacturing tolerances, as well).
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AdamJ
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I haven't seen any evidence from Canon that they've made any great strides in sensor noise performance recently so I'm not expecting any big leaps in this aspect from 7D to 7DII. Since the 7D doesn't have any other significant weaknesses, it seems very good value to me. I will probably buy one next month with a reasonable expectation that the 7DII's announcement won't leave me wishing I had waited.
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PerfectSavage said:
I've had the opportunity to play with the 1DC (essentially a 1DX) and it feels substantially beefier than the 7D.
I'd have no qualms about using a 1DC as a blunt object to fend off thieves. I'd be a little hesitant to do so using a 7D. But then again, there are plenty of DigitalRev videos that show just how durable a DSLR can be.....
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