Is a Super35 Mirrorless Camera Coming?

[Canon Rumors]

We’re throwing the idea of a Super35 sensor equipped mirrorless camera (form factor) out there, not based on an actual source telling us such a product is coming, but on some clues we’ve seen over the last little while.</p>


<ul>
<li>First up, we’ve been told that a replacement to a current Cinema EOS camera is coming for NAB 2018 in April. We’ve also been told that a non “Cinema EOS” camera is coming as well. We thought perhaps an <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-xc15-style-camera-coming-with-ef-mount-cr2/">ILC version of the XC15</a> or maybe something else, like a Super35 sensor mirrorless camera.</li>
<li>There is also the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-sends-invites-to-dealers-for-major-mirrorless-presentation-next-month/">invitation we were told about last week</a> in regards to a new mirrorless camera. We were told that the sensor area of the camera was cut out of the invitation, suggesting that the sensor was the interesting part of the camera. We know for a fact that no full frame camera is coming soon. We also don’t believe a camera between the EOS M6 and EOS M100 would garner any sort of clandestine presentation to higher up people in retail. Perhaps the invite is for a development announcement or its that second camera that will appear at NAB in 2018. Please keep in mind that we have no visual confirmation of this invitation.</li>
<li>We have seen patents for EF mount lenses for a Super35 sensor equipped camera that isn’t the standard Cinema EOS form factor.</li>
<li>We’ve been told that Canon’s <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/will-the-next-mirrorless-camera-from-canon-have-4k-video-cr1/">next mirrorless camera would have 4K</a>. Now there could be some confusion here with sources. The EOS M50 might not be that “next” camera, but maybe the sources actually mean an NAB mirrorless camera will be the first with 4K. I doubt the EOS M50 would get 4K, as that would pretty much kill the EOS M5 and M6 in my opinion. We do know that Canon is going to align the EOS M model numbers like the DSLRs. EOS Mx, EOS Mxx and EOS Mxxx. I believe the EOS M50 will be a short run camera until the new 4K able APS-C sensors are ready and the entire line gets replaced.</li>
</ul>
<p>Please keep in mind that none of the above is a guarantee that a Super35 mirrorless is coming, consider this more of a hypothesis. There is however a lot of things pointing to something new from Canon.</p>
<p>We may also just get an APS-C video oriented mirrorless camera. I don’t think Canon believes you can make a truly great video camera and a truly great stills camera in one product.</p>
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[-pekr-]

What would be the point of a Super35 format? Looked up the sensor size, it is just a bit larger than APS-C and is not 3:2 aspect ratio. I am not a video guy, so nor do I know much about some older formats, so sorry if something is not obvious for me. We are still talking a stills camera, right? Or?

 

[Canon Rumors]

What would be the point of a Super35 format? Looked up the sensor size, it is just a bit larger than APS-C and is not 3:2 aspect ratio. I am not a video guy, so nor do I know much about some older formats, so sorry if something is not obvious for me. We are still talking a stills camera, right? Or?

It'd be a video focused camera. Most videographers prefer Super35 to APS-C and it would work well as a B or C camera alongside a Cinema EOS camera.

 

[rrcphoto]

What would be the point of a Super35 format? Looked up the sensor size, it is just a bit larger than APS-C and is not 3:2 aspect ratio. I am not a video guy, so nor do I know much about some older formats, so sorry if something is not obvious for me. We are still talking a stills camera, right? Or?

it would be a 16:9 format sensor versus a 3:2

 

[BasXcanon]

Uhmmm in this day and age it would be the best for Canon to put a Super 35mm in the XC10 mark 2 and give it a EF-M mount. Wasnt there a rumor about the XC10/15 to get a successor???
In order to get some separation between the real Cxxx, they strip the inbuild ND filters and only 1 CF card for 4k recording.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

This doesn't make sense when considering the invite parameters. If those invitation to CEO's only were true, I would expect something more profound. This isn't.

 

[crazyrunner33]

Uhmmm in this day and age it would be the best for Canon to put a Super 35mm in the XC10 mark 2 and give it a EF-M mount. Wasnt there a rumor about the XC10/15 to get a successor???
In order to get some separation between the real Cxxx, they strip the inbuild ND filters and only 1 CF card for 4k recording.

I wouldn't replace the XC15 with a Super35, rather than offer the S35 as an option. The 1" sensor camera is a great tool for run and gun. I would love to have the Super 35 or even just the APS C in an EOS M sized camera for an a primary camera for video. It's nice to be able to rig the camera for what I need, and more often than not I'm running the camera on a small gimbal, or hand held with the neck strap for support and relying on the IBS.

 

[rrcphoto]

Uhmmm in this day and age it would be the best for Canon to put a Super 35mm in the XC10 mark 2 and give it a EF-M mount. Wasnt there a rumor about the XC10/15 to get a successor???
In order to get some separation between the real Cxxx, they strip the inbuild ND filters and only 1 CF card for 4k recording.

sure, that would be a Cxxx series camera then, with heat,etc to match.

 

[roxics]

Whatever Canon does, you can be sure of one thing, it won't be an inexpensive APS-C or Super35 sensor with interchangeable lens and no crop that shoots 4K video at a price that is easily affordable.

Canon drew the line in the sand years ago with the Cinema EOS series.

 

[bhf3737]

What would be the point of a Super35 format? Looked up the sensor size, it is just a bit larger than APS-C and is not 3:2 aspect ratio. I am not a video guy, so nor do I know much about some older formats, so sorry if something is not obvious for me. We are still talking a stills camera, right? Or?

Below is typical Super 35 sensor size:
Super 35 Generic 24.9 x 14.0 mm
Super 35 Red Epic, Scarlet 25.9 x 14.5 mm
Super 35 Arri Alexa 23.8 x 13.4 mm
Super 35 Canon C100, 300, 500 24.6 x 13.8 mm
Canon APS-C 22.2 x 14.8 mm
Canon's APS-C has a tad smaller width than super-35.

Giving a super-35 dual pixel sensor (like C200) to a camera with DSLR-ish form factor (like XC15) and ability to mount EF/EF-S lenses would be ideal for the users who are looking at Panasonic GH5, Sony 6xxx or similar crop cameras for cheap video (i.e. bloggers). Canon has all pieces of technology for this. I don't know how big this market segment is but I am sure Canon knows whether it is valuable enough to give it a try.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think that Super35 is such a dumb idea for stills.
The area of an APS-C sensor is 329 mm2, that for Super35 is 464, which is 1.41x as big. Yet the width is only slightly wider than APS-C and the diagonal is 31.1mm compared to 26.7mm, so I guess it would encompass the image circle of an EF-M lens. This would give the same 4:3 ratio as four-thirds, but an area 2.6 times as large. All with presumably no changes to mount or lenses. I presume the cost of the sensor would be higher.

Personally I generally use a 3:2 format or wider so would not gain that much from this change on a cropped image.

This, in my view, does not replace the need for a FF mirrorless from Canon.

 

[mb66energy]

My video experience is homeopathic but ...

Is a video camera not about good controls for video?
I do not think the EOS M format has good controls for
video or could provide it.

So IMO the probability for a Super 35 sensor in a typical EOS M shaped
camera body is very low.

 

[rrcphoto]

Whatever Canon does, you can be sure of one thing, it won't be an inexpensive APS-C or Super35 sensor with interchangeable lens and no crop that shoots 4K video at a price that is easily affordable.

Canon drew the line in the sand years ago with the Cinema EOS series.

the CINI EOS products are entirely separate and shouldn't even be in the same conversation.

all you have to do is look at the picture of a CINI EOS. That's like saying a A7S supplants an FS7 because both of them shoot video.

 

[infared]

Super35?
So it would be a dedicated video camera. Nothing that I would be interested as a still shooter.
Still looking for Canon to produce a FF ILC that competes with the Sony's of the world....
I guess that this may be very exciting news to some, though.

 

[slclick]

I'm seeing a size discrepancy here between these posts and other Super35 sensor size comparisons online. What is the real difference in size between aps-c and S35? I know it's a format difference from 3:2 and 16:9 but they're really not that much different in size are they? Frodo's mm2 measurements suggest they are.

 

[timmy_650]

This idea sounds a lot like Black Magic pocket cinema camera with a bigger senor.

 

[BillB]

This doesn't make sense when considering the invite parameters. If those invitation to CEO's only were true, I would expect something more profound. This isn't.

True enough. On the other hand, I'm having trouble coming up with anything photographic that would justify that kind of an invite list. The whole thing doesn't seem very plausible to me. Canon has been talking about a new research center in California. Maybe that has something to do with it, but it is not clear to me how much Canon's new research center will be working on photography.

 

[rrcphoto]

This idea sounds a lot like Black Magic pocket cinema camera with a bigger senor.

that's not a bad idea.

the M50 is coming in two colors.
it's shipped with 22 & 15-45, 15-45, 18-150 kits

so we know it's somewhere around an M6.

but what the heck would require a big announcement?

there's also a zoom coming in theory. could it be a APS-C mirrorless cini zoom? maybe.

 

[Frodo]

I'm seeing a size discrepancy here between these posts and other Super35 sensor size comparisons online. What is the real difference in size between aps-c and S35? I know it's a format difference from 3:2 and 16:9 but they're really not that much different in size are they? Frodo's mm2 measurements suggest they are.

I got my figures from here:
https://cvp.com/support/page/image-sensor-size-comparison/page

The generic Super35 is not much wider than APS-C, but with a 4:3, compared to 3:2, format, its a lot higher. This would capture more of the image circle from an EF-M lens, but would make the angle to the corners a bit more extreme (e.g. image fall-off).
Seems a relatively easy way to get more pixels without increasing pixel density.
As I tend to print 3:2 (similar to A3/A3+) or 2:1, I would not benefit much from Super35, but given the market for four-thirds, it appears that others do.

 

[slclick]

Thanks for the link Frodo