Is the EF 800 f/5.6L IS Due for Replacement? [CR2]

[Canon Rumors]

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<p><strong>Replacement of the big one?

</strong>I have been told on a few occasions that a replacement of the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/542293-REG/Canon_2746B002AA_EF_800mm_f_5_6L_IS.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EF 800 f/5.6L IS</a> is coming. An announcement could come as early as late Q1/Q2 of 2013. The new lens would incorporate Canon’s new weight saving technology.</p>
<p>Nikon has an 800 f/5.6 VR coming down the pipeline, and I spoked with someone that had a chance to handle the lens in London during the Olympics. He mentioned that the lens barely felt heavier than the new <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/754507-USA/Canon_5124B002_500mm_f_4L_EF_IS.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">Canon EF 500 f/4L IS II</a> which weighs in at a hair over 7lbs. If true, that would be pretty great, as the current Canon EF 800 f/5.6L IS weighs in at 9.9lbs.</p>
<p>Another sign that a new 800 may be on the way is the lens hood ET-155 has been discontinued by Canon. This hood was also used on the Canon EF 400 f/2.8L IS, and that lens has since been replaced. I know of the discontinuation as I have had one backordered from Canon for nearly 6 months. B&H Photo just informed me today that the lens hood is no longer available. Canon still lists the ET-155 as the lens hood for the 800. I will try the ET-155WII, which comes with the new <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/732109-USA/Canon_4412B002_EF_400mm_f_2_8L_IS.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EF 400 f/2.8L IS II</a> and see if it fits.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[Daniel Flather]

The 800/5.6 was released about the same time as the 200/2. Short life cycle for the 800 if the rumor comes to be.

 

[Greatland]

Any predictions on the price? Perhaps as much as $20K

 

[risc32]

so not only has the lens hood for the relatively newly replaced 400 2.8 IS no longer available, the hood(same hood model) for the still in production 800mm is no longer going to be made?

man, with service like that, i might have to reconsider third party gear. It's things like this that keep me anyway from third party gear, but when canon's no better AND living at a much higher price point....

 

[dolina]

The hood of the 400/2.8 IS II fits the 800/5.6 IS lens and vice versa. They differ in paint color and lock mechanism.

Reasons why this rumor is premature.

Point #1: Nikon has yet to release their 800mm VR. Canon would need to know the baseline for which they have to surpass to justify a higher price point.

Point #2: Canon's inability to produce enough big glass to satisfy demand. The 500/600 are perennially out of stock and the 200-400/4 Ext 1.4x has yet to ship after lens development was announced in 7 Feb 2011.

Point #3: These EF lenses predate 2008, the year the 200/2 and 800/5.6 were released. The list of over two dozen lenses is not exhaustive and is meant to make a point.

ULTRA WIDE
1992 EF 20mm f/2.8 USM

WIDE
1995 EF 28 f/1.8 USM
1998 EF 35mm f/1.4L USM

STANDARD & MIDIUM TELEPHOTO
1993 EF 50mm f/1.4 USM
1990 EF 50mm f/1.8 II
1992 EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
1991 EF 100mm f/2 USM

TELEPHOTO
1987 EF 135mm f/2.8 with Softfocus
1996 EF 135mm f/2L USM
1996 EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
1997 EF 300mm f/4L IS USM

SUPER TELEPHOTO
1993 EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
1993 EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM

MACRO / CLOSE-UP
1987 EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro
1996 EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM

TILT SHIFT
1991 TS-E 45mm f/2.8
1991 TS-E 90mm f/2.8

ZOOM
2003 EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
1998 EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
1995 EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1999 EF 70-200mm f/4L USM
2005 EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
2004 EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
1999 EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM
1999 EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III
1990 EF 100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
1998 EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
2004 EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM

Point #4: Not to mention the rumored EF 14-24mm f/2.8L USM

 

[dr croubie]

I'd suggest the reason the hood is discontinued is that the 800mm should take the same as the 400mm (I'm just assuming it fits), and they just haven't updated the 'accessory list' of the 800mm.
But then, they'll be a different colour (the new Big Whites come in the 'new white' colour same as the 70-300L and new TCs don't they?)
Maybe they just assume that everyone who buys an 800mm gets the hood included, takes good care of it, and never needs a replacement?

I'll definitely agree that it's not as 'due for replacement' as other lenses (like the list of 20-year-olds above). But with the 600mm + 1.4TC delivering almost as good IQ, there's not going to be many more sales of the 800mm (except for those who 'must' have 1600mm).

As for Point 2, i don't think that will stop them announcing anything. When they deliver is another thing, that won't stop them announcing tomorrow for delivery in 2015.

 

[dolina]

I agree with your counterpoint on #2.

For the past decade Canon has been releasing 4-6 EF & EF-S lenses a year. If you were to ask me, before this rumor was published, when the new 200 and 800 would be released I would have said after the year 2020.

In chronological order. L lenses are in red. EF-S and EF-M lenses are excluded.

80s
1987 EF 135mm f/2.8 with Softfocus
1987 EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro

90s
1990 EF 100-300mm f/4.5-5.6 USM
1990 EF 50mm f/1.8 II
1991 EF 100mm f/2 USM
1991 TS-E 45mm f/2.8
1991 TS-E 90mm f/2.8
1992 EF 20mm f/2.8 USM
1992 EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
1993 EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM
1993 EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
1993 EF 50mm f/1.4 USM
1995 EF 28 f/1.8 USM
1995 EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1996 EF 135mm f/2L USM
1996 EF 180mm f/3.5L Macro USM
1996 EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
1997 EF 300mm f/4L IS USM
1998 EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM
1998 EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
1998 EF 35mm f/1.4L USM
1999 EF 70-200mm f/4L USM
1999 EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III
1999 EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III USM

00's
2003 EF 17-40mm f/4L USM
2004 EF 28-300mm f/3.5-5.6L IS USM
2004 EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM
2005 EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

 

[KyleSTL]

1993 EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM

That lens has been out of production well over a decade, and the number of units in likely in the 10's. Not a good example of the point you are trying to make, but I do agree with you that there are many other lenses badly in need of replacement. The 50mm macro and 135mm SF are prime examples, however, I can't see Canon actually producing a new softfocus, as photography styles have shifted away from that since the 1980's and the effect can easily be replicated in post. My money would be on 35L, 50 1.4, 300 4, 400 5.6, 800L, 45 TS-E, and 90 TS-E replacements next year. That's a pretty full year right there. Unfortunately, the cheapest lenses will be the 50 1.4 and I'm guessing an MSRP around $700-800.

 

[Loswr]

But with the 600mm + 1.4TC delivering almost as good IQ, there's not going to be many more sales of the 800mm (except for those who 'must' have 1600mm).

Actually, I think the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII actually delivers slightly better IQ than the 800/5.6, and the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII delivers better IQ than the 800/5.6 + 1.4xIII, as well. In both cases, in addition to better IQ, the 600+TC is lighter, cheaper, and slightly longer in focal length. So, the 800/5.6 really has no remaining advantages, except as you note to achieve 1600mm (at the cost of loss of AF at f/11 and a big IQ hit, such that cropping from 1200mm is probably better).

Personally, I think it's likely we'll see an updated 800/5.6 sooner than expected, and the main reason is that the current one cannot compete with the new 600 II (and secondarily, because Nikon is releasing one).

 

[rbr]

This is all just more bad news for current 800mm owners who may want to sell their lens without taking a big hit in the wallet. It really lowers the resale value of the lens even more, which is currently a very tough sell with the new 600 now available.

 

[jasonsim]

Ive got an 800mm and am loving it for birding. Got it for thousands less than a new 600mm II (nearly $4k less). For use with my 5D III, I'd rather start off with a native 800mm focal length. Cannot wait for the April firmware update that will let me AF with the 1.4x extender attached for 1120mm.

1/3200 ƒ/5.6m ISO500 800 mm​

1/2500 ƒ/5.6 ISO800 800 mm (1280mm eqv. on 7D)​

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

1993 EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM

That lens has been out of production well over a decade, and the number of units in likely in the 10's

I've always understood that no 1200mm EF lenses made. The only ones were reworked 1200mm FD lenses.
Wikipedia
The EF 1200mm f/5.6L USM is a professional L-series lens, that is now discontinued.[2] The lens was first developed for the Canon FD mount, although never marketed until after Canon had transitioned to the EF mount. According to a Canon USA representative interviewed in 2009, the lens made its first public appearance at the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles; Canon had shipped five copies of the lens for media use at the Games. All of the FD 1200mm f/5.6L lenses were eventually shipped back to Canon in Japan. Later in the 1980s, these lenses were converted to the EF mount.[3] The official site of Canon competitor Nikon implies that early versions of the Canon 1200mm lens (with a built-in teleconverter, a feature not included in the final production lens) were also used by photographers covering baseball games, including the very popular high school tournaments, at Japan's Koshien Stadium.

 

[Loswr]

Here is a picture of two of the now extinct FD 1200's with TC at the 1984 LA Olympics.

What are those two odd-looking black lenses in the picture?

 

[KyleSTL]

I've seen that picture posted a bunch of times, but never realized the lenses that are beside it are the New FD 600mm f/4.5 L and New FD 400mm f/2.8 L and just how small they look in comparison.

Here is a picture of two of the now extinct FD 1200's with TC at the 1984 LA Olympics.

What are those two odd-looking black lenses in the picture?

I know you're just joking, but I got curious and looked it up. The one in the background appears to be a Nikkor AI-S 600mm f/4 ED IF or a Nikkor AI 600mm f/4 ED IF

 

[dr croubie]

Does anyone else notice anything cool about that photo?
Look at the main 1200 in the middle. The camera is in Portrait, the TC Bulge is to the right, where the prism is.
Now look at the other one on the left. The camera is in Horizontal, and this time the TC bulge is above, but again where the camera prism is.
Now that's even more innovative, the lens is fixed on its tripod mount and the camera rotates around somewhere after the TC bulge. I'm not sure that'd be practical from a 'ruggedness' perspective (anything can be made weathersealed if they wanted to). And it probably only came about in the era before built-in flashes, or maybe they just figured that anyone buying this wouldn't be using a 'consumer' camera with built-in.
It's their own fault for building the 7D, there's probably a few of us owners who would love this lens and buy it before a new body (who couldn't afford to buy both the lens and a 1D4/X)

 

[dolina]

Ok, ignore the 1200mm. I'm the only one who is wishing for a replacement for that at half the weight. ;D

I have the 200 and 800 that are rumored to be updated next year and I am not inclined to sell then upgrade to the new one unless it offered a weight savings of more than 50%.

It is guaranteed the price of the Series II will skyrocket to beyond $15,000 to make the 600 and shorter white primes look cheap by comparison.

Canon can update the paint job to lower cost by only having to support one color of L white, sharing 1 lens hood for the sake of reducing SKUs and even the lens cap from leather to the more practical canvass.

In the past Canon have made subtle changes to existing lenses that did not merit a Series II monicker. They did this with the 200/1.8.

The changes are the relabeling of the AF switch to "MF" from "M". Optical coating has a different color. An inclusion to a more rounder aperture was made.

 

[ZoeEnPhos]

But with the 600mm + 1.4TC delivering almost as good IQ, there's not going to be many more sales of the 800mm (except for those who 'must' have 1600mm).

Actually, I think the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII actually delivers slightly better IQ than the 800/5.6, and the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII delivers better IQ than the 800/5.6 + 1.4xIII, as well. In both cases, in addition to better IQ, the 600+TC is lighter, cheaper, and slightly longer in focal length. So, the 800/5.6 really has no remaining advantages, except as you note to achieve 1600mm (at the cost of loss of AF at f/11 and a big IQ hit, such that cropping from 1200mm is probably better).

Personally, I think it's likely we'll see an updated 800/5.6 sooner than expected, and the main reason is that the current one cannot compete with the new 600 II (and secondarily, because Nikon is releasing one).

Hello Neuroanatomist!
Thank you again for your very good thoughts - as always coming from you sir!

Expecting a brand new and also better Canon EF800/5.6L that has the new sophisticated/complex optical design(as in EF600mm f/4L IS USM II),
that features (2) fluorite and UD lens elements to tackle aberrations and distortions,
and also features a lightweight magnesium alloy and titanium construction,
which reduces weight without compromising on strength and build quality - so I think I rather wait to maybe purchasing this new EF800, instead of one of the existing new ones version II super-lenses from Canon?

Let us see what the future holds!

Happy shootings!

C

 

[Gcon]

"The new lens would incorporate Canon’s new weight saving technology." i.e. plastic.

 

[jasonsim]

But with the 600mm + 1.4TC delivering almost as good IQ, there's not going to be many more sales of the 800mm (except for those who 'must' have 1600mm).

Actually, I think the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII actually delivers slightly better IQ than the 800/5.6, and the 600/4 II + 1.4xIII delivers better IQ than the 800/5.6 + 1.4xIII, as well. In both cases, in addition to better IQ, the 600+TC is lighter, cheaper, and slightly longer in focal length. So, the 800/5.6 really has no remaining advantages, except as you note to achieve 1600mm (at the cost of loss of AF at f/11 and a big IQ hit, such that cropping from 1200mm is probably better).

Personally, I think it's likely we'll see an updated 800/5.6 sooner than expected, and the main reason is that the current one cannot compete with the new 600 II (and secondarily, because Nikon is releasing one).

Hello Neuroanatomist!
Thank you again for your very good thoughts - as always coming from you sir!

Expecting a brand new and also better Canon EF800/5.6L that has the new sophisticated/complex optical design(as in EF600mm f/4L IS USM II),
that features (2) fluorite and UD lens elements to tackle aberrations and distortions,
and also features a lightweight magnesium alloy and titanium construction,
which reduces weight without compromising on strength and build quality - so I think I rather wait to maybe purchasing this new EF800, instead of one of the existing new ones version II super-lenses from Canon?

Let us see what the future holds!

Happy shootings!

C

hmm...I think the only major improvement Canon can make on the 800mm is reduce the weight tremendously. No reason why it could not weigh around what the 500mm II does. The third IS mode and removal of the protection glass element would make it in to a new 800mm too. As far as optical design though, the current 800mm already has 2 fluorite elements and super UD elements.

One other welcome change would be to better balance the lens...try making it a 55/45 weight distribution. That is really my only complaint with the current 800mm; it's very front heavy.