More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[fragilesi]

The term "crippled" is plainly wrong. It's become widely used but looking at it objectively it doesn't fit and it's unnecessarily emotive.

I am sure there are occasions when all of the manufacturers take marketing decisions to leave features and functions out but at least as often as not it's going to be something more than that and the reasons are manifold.

Features will also get left out because timescales didn't allow them to be included. Sad but often true. Even if a feature works in one camera it might not be as easy or even possible to implement in even a slightly different one.

The point that gets levelled at Canon most is Magic Lantern. The underlying premise is that software is free even if it does take the ML guys months to get it done. But then ML aren't doing the same thing as Canon are having to do, they are designing without warranty, they won't have to replace units or accept returns when things don't work, they have a userbase of hundreds, maybe thousands but not millions per camera. These are VERY different propositions for software design and require approaches that differ so intensely in terms of QC that the costs are incredibly diverse in time, resources and of course money. In this age of people expecting things for free we forget that quality is is anything but free. It has cost in just the same way as it has value. We also forget that future-proofing architectures has ongoing cost associated with it on top of the significant development time.

In how many other areas of technology does a component designed as long ago as something like the 135L F2 work seamlessly with the very latest models? (Without some clumsy adaption being required) There will be some but not many. All of these things cost and to many are extremely valuable.

Talk of products being deliberately "crippled" is all too often over-assumed and over-dramatised.

 

[unfocused]

I'm one of those who finds the term "crippled" ridiculous (not to mention more than a little politically incorrect).

I suppose if a manufacturer deliberately disabled a feature that was built into a product, one might be able to legitimately argue the product has been "crippled." For example, if a camera had two card slots built into it, but one of those slots was filled with a dummy card that had been superglued in place, that might constitute "crippling."

Or, if a lens came with a maximum aperture of f2.8, but when mounted on certain cameras, it would only open to f5.6, that might be "crippling."

But, that's not what we are talking about is it? No. People use the phrase to malign any camera that does not have any particular feature that the person wants it to have. Without regard to either the cost or practicality of including that feature in the camera.

Therefore, when the 6D has an autofocus system that is not as sophisticated as the autofocus system of the 1D, it is "crippled" in their minds. Or if a particular model does not have a headphone jack, it is "crippled."

This kind of thinking reveals an attitude that manufacturers have unlimited resources and the cost of producing a product should have no relationship to the cost the consumer pays for the product.

Of course, when you buy a 1Dx you are getting more features than a T3i. That's called product differentiation. Nothing evil or conspiratorial about it. You pay more. You get more.

I strive to provide the highest level of service I can to all my clients. But trust me, a client who pays more is going to get more. I'm not "crippling" my services to other clients, I'm just adjusting the level of service to meet the price paid.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

You can repeat it a gazillions times, it's still the same old saw. I don't see you decrying Sony for providing one lousy stinking card slot on the $3200 MSRP FF a7RII. Wowzers. :

Interesting you bring that up. I have no reason to bring Sony into the discussion or even my line of thinking as they are not a serious camera system. Sony is outrageously overpriced amateur toys.

Simply put, Sony builds sensors then thinks about the camera to put around it. Canon builds cameras, and works on developing sensors as a part of creating the camera. Perspective, but it does matter.

Sony cameras are showcases for a sensor. Nikon uses Sony sensors in a real camera system and the results are impressive. Canon is technically lagging on some aspects of sensor design, but the total package makes for a superior system than the combo of Nikon who knows how to build cameras, and Sony who has fancy sensors. That says a lot for Canon.

This statement is my opinion, and it will probably anger a lot of people.


But all that doesn't change that Canon is rumored to put out a FF camera in 2016 with a single SD slot for over $2,000. There may be bigger ripoffs out there (Sony), but that doesn't excuse Canon on this.

Seems you are having trouble letting things go, like you hang on a little too hard. This ought to help loosen your grip a little. Then you'll have somewhere to put that extra card you are worried about. Especially since you have absolutely no idea what that second card slot would cost Canon (or the rest of us). Or whether or not it will even fit in light of the fact that the 6D has wifi and GPS... features the Professional Model 1Dx you say they are trying to upsell does not have. Is the 1Dx "crippled" too?

If you are a paid event photographer, I would go for the 7D2 for the following reasons -

1. Dual card slot data integrity. It isn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN a card will fail. You can't reshoot an event. Many data recoveries succeed, but NOT ALL. Of those that succeed, rarely are 100% of the photos recovered. After all, the whole reason a failure took place is because data on the card became corrupted. In this day and age of social networking - reputations can be ruined quickly and hard earned referrals lost. Ignore all the morons who will say this isn't that important. If that was true, the 5D and 1D series would have one slot, but they don't. You owe it to yourself, your business and the customer to protect the images. The 7D2 does that at a very reasonable price point. It is almost unethical not to.

The 1D-X is crippled. It doesn't have a headphone jack. It also lacks a silent shutter mode, which would be useful for wildlife and event shooting. So as a general purpose camera, the current 1D-X is not the body for me.

It is not "crippled". Just does not have those features. Evil Canon is trying to upsell you to...??? Wait, there is no upsell. Thanks for helping with the point. ;D Hmmm... maybe the "downsell" is the game. ;D But, but, but...Is the 1Dx a general purpose camera? I've never thought of it as being so. I've never seen it touted by Canon as being "general purpose" either. Of course, without a headphone jack or silent shutter, how could the 1Dx possibly be considered a "professional" camera? (sarcasm)

The upsell from a 1D-X is the 1D-C. (Which includes the headphone jack and 4K)

You are right, I'd forgotten that 4k was available on DSLRs in April 2012 when the 1Dx was released. That is certainly what photo journalists and sports shooters were looking for when they bought their "crippled" general purpose 1Dx cameras. Then again, the 1Dc isn't a "general purpose" camera either, is it? No.

As a freelancer I want general purpose cameras, and good crossover between body functions and capabilities is essential for me. Since I need the aforementioned, the 1D-X is not a camera for me.

Of course it isn't the camera you want or need. You said that, but it isn't "crippled " either. There certainly isn't some conspiracy by Canon to purposefully leave out a feature so that they can upsell you for the purpose of ripping you off. BUT even if Canon does leave features off of one camera and include such features on another... so what. Sometimes tech actually trickles up. Take, for instance, the 70D's dual pixel AF. The 1Dx doesn't have that either. It can't mount an EFS STM lens either (available first in EFS not EF). Is the 70D "crippled" because it does not shoot at 12 fps? I think not. Is the 1Dx crippled because it does not have dual pixel AF? Nope. Two different camera models with two very different purposes and two different markets. Neither is "crippled".
Do videographers want to use auto focus on EF lenses AND record onboard so that they can get all that AF noise from the lens in their recording? I don't think so. Doesn't a hot shoe mounted tascam for lapel mics or other device offer the headphone jack? Yup.

I understand wanting every feature in every camera at the price one wants because, "I want it! I want it! I want it!" and "They should do it because I want it!". The fact is, it will never happen. There will always be equipment releases made just months before some new tech is perfected for market. Some around here claim it is a vast conspiracy. Others know it is just the nature of ever expanding technology and R&D.

The 1Dx isn't for you? I don't care. The fact remains, it is not "crippled".

Since you don't believe that a camera can be "crippled" obviously your logical conclusion is that your favourite camera is not crippled.

IMHO a "crippling" is not only for up-selling but also to force cross-selling. Take the TC80-N3 for example. For years that has been sold separately when Nikon bodies have timer control functions programmed into the camera. The magic lantern guys also implemented it in various non-1D bodies, so a timer control via software is obviously possible on the Canon system. Built-in TC is only now being sold in the 7D-II and 5Ds cameras but omitting that function in the 1D-X was intended to force a cross-sell of a mostly unnecessary accessory (Crippling for cross-sell not upsell to a more expensive body).

Say for example you are doing a 3x camera timelapse project. With the Canon system you would need to fork out extra to buy three timer controls whereas with Nikon you could just shoot with your three cameras.

I gotta side with all the others here wondering just how it's crippled. It lacks features, it has limitations but crippled? I guess if the grass is always greener and you need to spin it a certain way, then yeah, use all the inappropriate terms you want but ---it's not crippled by any means. Lets be real here - does my house have central air, no, must be crippled. Most standard cars only have front wheel drive, that lack of AWD or 4wd must make those cars crippled. My car doesn't have bluetooth, crippled?

 

[mdmphoto]

I'll be happy if the 6D II has more af points, covering a larger section of the viewfinder, cross-type. Better ISO, DR would also be nice, but the fact is, the 6D already handles noise way better than any of the crop bodies I've ever used, (XTi, 40D, 50D, 7D), and, while it'll never take sequential action shots (say, a basketball slam dunk from the top of the key, and the like), it is as capable as its operator of getting isolated action shots (the push-off, a bit of the dribble, the slam...) or BiF shots and so on. I still use my 7D for birds and wildlife, surf shots, and so on even as I lust for a 7D II, but the fact is if I'm only carrying one body, it's the 6D, and I've probably put off the 7D II so often because I'm waiting for the 6D II's hopefully better af and whatever comes with it -- also, the 7D II's price goes down over time, like all models. I paid brand-new prices for my 50- and 7D bodies, only to watch those prices creep down fairly quickly over the following months.
The point for me is simple: if the camera body I'm researched is faithful to its specs, then any limitations are more due to me, than it....

 

[jeffa4444]

I'll be happy if the 6D II has more af points, covering a larger section of the viewfinder, cross-type. Better ISO, DR would also be nice, but the fact is, the 6D already handles noise way better than any of the crop bodies I've ever used, (XTi, 40D, 50D, 7D), and, while it'll never take sequential action shots (say, a basketball slam dunk from the top of the key, and the like), it is as capable as its operator of getting isolated action shots (the push-off, a bit of the dribble, the slam...) or BiF shots and so on. I still use my 7D for birds and wildlife, surf shots, and so on even as I lust for a 7D II, but the fact is if I'm only carrying one body, it's the 6D, and I've probably put off the 7D II so often because I'm waiting for the 6D II's hopefully better af and whatever comes with it -- also, the 7D II's price goes down over time, like all models. I paid brand-new prices for my 50- and 7D bodies, only to watch those prices creep down fairly quickly over the following months.
The point for me is simple: if the camera body I'm researched is faithful to its specs, then any limitations are more due to me, than it....

You could have written this for me. Like you I have the 7D and the 6D, Ive been tempted to buy the 7D MKII given I have three EF-S lenses including the very good 15-85mm but I think Im going to wait and see IF a 6D MKII shows up and what it will be like, until then I cannot say Im unhappy generally with the 6D its a great landscape camera.

 

[jeffa4444]

mdmphoto
Forgot to say I like the shot (it does have some sensor dirt spots easily removed in Lightroom).

 

[mdmphoto]

mdmphoto
Forgot to say I like the shot (it does have some sensor dirt spots easily removed in Lightroom).

...Thanks for your comment and critique-- I simply overlooked the spots. I was so thrilled with the results of an otherwise-unadorned LR CC HDR processing- including dehazing, and de-ghosting filters, that I lost my mind in euphoric amazement, and just forgot to pay any attention to the spots. I fixed and re-posted the shot. (yes, at long last, I've bitten the photo CC bullet, and yeah, I'm actually impressed and at peace with it...)

 

[jeffa4444]

Like you I bit the bullet and moved over to Lightroom & Photoshop CC on the montly plan now Ive got used to the basic functions used the most although still trying to understand the tools in Photoshop which are NOT easy to understand (Lightroom is where I do most of my adjustments). Apple let Photographers down big-time with Photos which in my mind is rubbish but I guess they long ago decided what they wanted to do not what the customer may want that comes from an accountant running them.

22 pages of posts, I hope someone at Canon is looking. The Canon 6D MKII is now overdue.

 

[mdmphoto]

Like you I bit the bullet and moved over to Lightroom & Photoshop CC on the montly plan now Ive got used to the basic functions used the most although still trying to understand the tools in Photoshop which are NOT easy to understand (Lightroom is where I do most of my adjustments).
22 pages of posts, I hope someone at Canon is looking. The Canon 6D MKII is now overdue.

I also do most of my editing in LR- the school at which I taught photo-editing switched from ps4 to LR1, so I've had and used every iteration since, moving ever further from any shred of comfort wtih ps, which I'd never used for anything except photos- all its other capabilities simply mystified me, and, occasionally, tricked me into ruining otherwise decent (I thought) photos. I did miss layers and blending modes, though, so I started using Perfect Photo Suite beginning with v. 5, and have become more comfortable using it than ps for editing beyond LR; especially since they added layers a couple of versions ago.
I also hope Canon is rushing the 6D II to the market also, as long as they keep all the current features while adding more sophisticated AF...

 

[super_newbie_pro]

for someone who has no optical FF , nikon or canon choice is not a problem . The selection is more easier. This 6D II will arrive with a price more high than the Nikon D750 . For me it will be in direct competition not with the D610 but the D750 . Outside , when I see all the benefits of D750 , rotating screen , dual slot SD, Quick AF , housing structure and seals body , EV 14,5, canon will struggle to impose its new device ... The D750 is now at € 1,900 / $ 1500 or 1500€/1300$ on grey market.

 

[entoman]

Yes, that is going to be the biggest problem for Canon - setting a price that undercuts the D750, which in terms of specification beats anything that Canon is likely to provide in the 6DMkii. However, the original 6D was more expensive than the far better specified D610, yet the 6D, I believe, is a bigger seller than the D610.

One thing is for sure, Canon have very loyal (but deeply frustrated) customers, and we have a habit of grabbing every upgrade that they bring out, in preference to switching to Nikon.

It's not just about being "stuck" with Canon due to having a collection of existing lenses either - if I had all my Canon gear stolen (5DMKiii, 7DMkii, 270EXii, 17-40L, 100mm L IS macro, 180mm L macro, 70-300L) I'm pretty sure I'd use the insurance money to buy a replacement Canon system, rather than use the opportunity to switch to the better specifications and better value of Nikons.

Why? There is something special about Canons, beyond their specification. They are beautifully designed, with fantastic ergonomics, and a real pleasure to use. As a pro I have access to a wide range of gear, so I also used a Nikon D610 based system in parallel for several weeks. In my opinion, in terms of design and ergonomics and user-friendliness, Canons blows Nikons completely out of the water.

 

[jeffa4444]

In the Amazon rankings the 6D lies ahead of the D610 (the D750 is ahead of it) but neither of them is particularly high. On the Canon side the 5DMKIII, 7DMKII, 70D all rank far higher as do some of the Rebel cameras.

The 6D by the Amazon measure is due updating.

 

[Sporgon]

In the Amazon rankings the 6D lies ahead of the D610 (the D750 is ahead of it) but neither of them is particularly high. On the Canon side the 5DMKIII, 7DMKII, 70D all rank far higher as do some of the Rebel cameras.

The 6D by the Amazon measure is due updating.

Are you sure these Amazon rankings don't work on overall value rather than overall units ? It staggers me how high up the ranking a very expensive camera like the 5DIII is.

 

[piotrekhc]

Any rumors about pricing ?

 

[Jack Douglas]

Today Canon eStore Canada has the 6D at $1600 CAD, which is roughly $1216 USD.

Jack

 

[babarasghar]

so no more updates on this ???
plz tell me we r getting better sensor this time canon or else I'm jumping to Nikon

 

[wsmith96]

I know this isn't 6DII related, but I just picked up a refurb 6D to replace my 5D for over the weekend for $999. I saw today that Canon dropped the price and they were nice enough to refund $100 to match today's price of $899. Looking forward to the technology/feature jump. Any one looking for a 5D "classic", pm me as I'm selling...

 

[the.unkle.george]

$899 Sold out already. I was past the 14 day limit. -nojoy :'(
Poor people on Craigslist trying to sell them for $1200

Love my 6d.