Patent: A New Canon EF 50 f/1.2 & Suggestion of a Full Frame Mirrorless?

[Canon Rumors]

<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=12288"></g:plusone></div><div style="float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;"><a href="https://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="vertical" data-url="http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=12288">Tweet</a></div>
<strong>New Canon 50 f/1.2


</strong>A new patent has surfaced that shows a new design for an EF 50 f/1.2 lens. The current 50L has somewhat of a mixed reputation due to some focus shift.</p>
<p>Also shown is potentially a 50 f/2 for a full frame mirrorless camera as it mentions a 22mm back focus distance. Keith at [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_new_lenses.html" target="_blank">NL</a>] is reading the patent that way, and that interpretation looks plausible. If anyone is better at reading and interpreting the patent than we are, please let us know.</p>
<ul>
<li><span>Example 1</span>
<ul>
<li><span>Focal length f = 51.70mm</span></li>
<li><span>Fno. 1.25</span></li>
<li><span>Half angle of view ω = 22.71 °</span></li>
<li><span>Image height 21.64mm</span></li>
<li><span>105.65mm length lens</span></li>
<li><span>BF 40.00mm</span></li>
<li><span>Nine 6 groups lens configuration</span></li>
<li><span>One one aspherical surface</span></li>
<li><span>Maximum effective diameter 45.16mm</span></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><span>Example 4</span>
<ul>
<li>Focal length f = 50.00mm</li>
<li>Fno. 2.06</li>
<li>Half angle of 23.40mm</li>
<li>Image height 21.64mm</li>
<li>Length 72.62mm lens</li>
<li>BF 28.86mm</li>
<li>Eight four group lens configuration</li>
<li>No aspherical</li>
<li>Maximum effective diameter 33.34mm</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2012-12-16" target="_blank">EG</a>] via [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_new_lenses.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[Don Haines]

ohh!!! ohh!!! ohh!!! Full frame mirrorless!!!!! with a new focus technology, 4K video, wireless, ***, an articulated touchscreen, and a nikon lens adaptor so we can all get excited... but no pop-up flash.... you just have to draw the line somewhere!

 

[Woody]

Full frame mirrorless? Wow, wow, wow!!! That will simply DESTROY all competition

 

[Dylan777]

FULL FRAME MIRRORLESS.......I say 2014

 

[RGomezPhotos]

Okay.. Can someone inform me why full frame-mirrorless would be a good thing? Since I only really care about DSLRs, I don't bother keeping up with the benefits of mirrorless cameras...

 

[Zlatko]

Okay.. Can someone inform me why full frame-mirrorless would be a good thing? Since I only really care about DSLRs, I don't bother keeping up with the benefits of mirrorless cameras...

The delightful thing about mirrorless cameras is that they are usually smaller and lighter — those are the key benefits. There is no need for a mirror box, so the lens can be closer to the sensor. And this means that all of the lenses can be smaller. Just look at the full frame mirrorless cameras, the Leica M, M9, M9P, MM and Sony RX1, and see how wonderfully small they are for full frame cameras. If Canon can deliver a full frame mirrorless in a Leica M-sized body, with autofocus interchangeable lenses and a high quality viewfinder, it will be of great interest to many photographers who desire a high quality camera in a small package. Of course, it could a be mirrorless in a DSLR-sized body, like the Sony A99, and then most of the size & weight advantage lost.

 

[pdirestajr]

I hear focusing speed on Canon's "mirrorless" cameras are groundbreaking.

 

[verysimplejason]

Also the good thing with mirror-less cameras is that there's no mirror so there's nothing slapping back and forth when taking pictures and this means more stability. This is aside from the fact that you can use smaller lens. It's easier to handheld a mirrorless camera even at low shutter speed as against a DSLR set at the same focal length and shutter speed. Also with the smaller lens, a larger aperture than what's existing now is even possible and possibly cheaper to implement.

 

[dr croubie]

I hear focusing speed on Canon's "mirrorless" cameras are groundbreaking.

"Groundbreaking" on a geological timescale? As in the time it's taking in Africa's Rift Valley for the Ground to Break and split the continent in two?
I hear the EOS M focusses about that fast...


But I'll be happy for any FF Mirrorless that is $2000-3000 with interchangeable lenses, and doesn't have that $4000 worth of Leica-Badge on the front...

 

[verysimplejason]

I hear focusing speed on Canon's "mirrorless" cameras are groundbreaking.

I've used the EOS M camera and found the focusing through button very slow. However, focusing through the touch screen is the ground-breaking one. It is decently fast enough. You should try it sometime. It's just like the 650D in regards to this.

 

[Stone]

I'd love for Canon to do this, but the first company to pull it off with decent (no need for pro-level) autofocus will get my money. My eventual goal is a relatively compact FF mirrorless for general all-round shooting combined with a 7D or 7DII for sports and action. I think it would be the perfect combo.

 

[Woody]

Thought more about it. Instead of FF mirrorless, it may well be a fixed lens camera, like the RX1. If it's a fixed lens camera, AF speed should not be an issue. So, we may see a battle between Sony 35 mm f/2 FF compact and Canon 50 mm f/2 FF compact.

 

[EdB]

Thought more about it. Instead of FF mirrorless, it may well be a fixed lens camera, like the RX1. If it's a fixed lens camera, AF speed should not be an issue. So, we may see a battle between Sony 35 mm f/2 FF compact and Canon 50 mm f/2 FF compact.

Canon has never really played to THAT small a niche customer. There are rumors of a FF NEX coming out and I think that is where they are going. I'd like to see this camera do away with the AA filter and have extreme detail and sharpness.

 

[ronderick]

I think FF mirrorless is probably on every camera company's agenda, but I doubt the technology/production cost is feasible at this point. It took two years to see Sony send in the RX-1 after the X100 (from APS-C fixed compact to FF compact).

I doubt many people is willing to stomach a 3000-dollar RX-1 anyways, let alone a FF mirrorless from any company (aside from Leica). Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

 

[pwp]

Okay.. Can someone inform me why full frame-mirrorless would be a good thing? Since I only really care about DSLRs, I don't bother keeping up with the benefits of mirrorless cameras...

DSLR design is mature and beautifully familiar. But as a design which has it's roots in the SLR film bodies from 60 or so years ago, it comes with limitations....like that flapping mirror! So as to ensure a quick take-up of DSLR cameras during the transition time 10-12 years ago, marketing & boardroom decisions were made to make the transition as smooth as practical from SLR film bodies to DSLR, so continuing with the familiar form-factor came to pass. Coming from EOS-1 film bodies to the original EOS 1D & 1Ds delivered a form factor that was instantly familiar and quick to get working with. The new bodies took our existing glass and had major controls in the same places.

Fast forward a dozen years to 2012, a year where we have seen an explosion of mirrorless releases. The digital market penetration has been complete for years now. The market is now ready for new form factors which better suit the realities of digital image capture. Mirrorless is the future. Some of the early releases have been a bit hit and miss, but it's still early days. Expect the mirrorless market to mature very rapidly to a point where the DSLR form factor will be regarded as vintage sooner than you might expect.

I don't necessarily expect a FF pro level M camera to be a great deal smaller than my current 1-Series bodies. Once necessary ergonomic, EVF/hybrid viewfinders, AF speed etc have been satisfactorily delivered, there will be no stopping the M revolution...consigning the lovely old DSLR to history.

-PW

 

[preppyak]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

 

[RS2021]

About time!

 

[Stone]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

I somewhat agree, but you also have to look at the players. Once potential sales dictates that one of the big players (not a niche player like Leica) push the platform forward, lenses will come fairly rapidly. If Canon or Nikon jumps on the FF mirrorless bandwagon, the 3rd party lens makers won't be far behind. Lenses are slow going in the mirrorless market right now because DSLR and DSLR lens sales are still what keeps the lights on.

There's currently no need to aggressively produce a ton of mirrorless lenses. That would change quickly of one of those companies managed to produce a high demand FF mirrorless. I agree it could be 5-6 years before they were ubiquitous but alot sooner for a fairly complete kit with the exception of superteles which I think will always remain a niche.

 

[dr croubie]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

Or for a comparison: Look at EF-s.
When digital APS-C first started coming out around the D30/10D time, there was no such thing as EF-s. You needed to buy a ridiculously expensive (compared to an EF-s kit lens nowadays at least) 16-35L or 17-40L, even a 20-35mm wasn't particularly wide on crop.
The first EF-s kit lenses, I'm looking at you, EF-s 18-55 non-IS mk1, weren't worth the box they shipped them in.

Flash forward what, 5-10 years, and now look. EF-s 15-85 IS is a great travel zoom, 17-55 f/2.8 IS is a great indoor zoom, EF-s 10-22, Tokina 11-16, Sigma 8-16 all provide great über-wide options in their niches. Even the latest 18-55 IS kit lens is worth the money (granted, it's not much money).

How long did that take? First EF-s body was 300D, August 2003.
EF-s 10-22 was probably the most pressing *need* of the new system, that was 2004 sometime.
EF-s 17-55/2.8 as the 'fast zoom' came out in 2006.
EF-s 15-85 as the '24mm equiv. wide zoom' came out in 2009 with the 7D.

So those three together make up the best 3 of the crop line lenses thus far, and it only took them what, 6 years to get those three together? SigRonKina have certainly helped prod things along by providing competition, especially in the über-wide segment.


Still, if we see a FF Mirrorless from canon, my bet is that the first will be in a DSLR body without a mirror (i've got a post elsewhere here that explains why FF and Short Back Focus = bad for digital). But if/when they work out the kinks and give us a 20-35mm Flange-mount FF Mirrorless, they'll be relying on people using their existing EF lenses on adapter for a few more years yet while they gradually fill out the line-up with dedicated (read: smaller, not necessarily cheaper) short-mount lenses.

 

[Area256]

Skeptical, but that would be a dream come true for a lot of people - myself included.

They wouldn't need to have a lot of lenses either. A fast 35mm and 50mm would make most people happy to start. No point in making zooms or super teles, or tilt-shifts, etc, they are all so big when made for FF (even if designed for mirror-less) they defeat the advantage of mirror-less. Just use them adapted if you must.

Then they could add a semi-fast 24mm, 85mm, 100mm, and maybe a 16mm or 20mm, and they'd be set for lenses.

Ideally I'd have a nice DSLR to use with large lenses when needed, and carry a mirror-less FF with a 35mm or 50mm at all other times. I don't think it would hurt the high-end DSRL market (can you see a pro with a 70-200mm f/2.8 on a small body?). And it'll be priced so high that it wound't hurt the rebel market either.

Overall I see FF mirror-less as a niche market at best, mostly as a second camera for pros, and people with money (but not Leica money) who want the best quality possible without the size of DSLR.

Having said that, I'm still skeptical... And Sony is likely to get to market first. Also Canon's AF would need to be improved a lot before it would be taken seriously.