Speedy Manual Focusing?

[Deleted member 292706]

How were photographers able to manual focus quickly back in the days? Aside from a lot of practice, was there a technique involved in shooting fast manual?

 

[Loswr]

How were photographers able to manual focus quickly back in the days? Aside from a lot of practice, was there a technique involved in shooting fast manual?

Some technique, yes. But of course, the focus screen wasn't the plain one on modern dSLRs - there was a split prism and microprism collar around it as focusing aids. You can get such focus screens for current bodies, too, although only some bodies feature easy user replacement of the screen (e.g. the 6D and 1D X do, the 5DIII does not).

 

[Don Haines]

How were photographers able to manual focus quickly back in the days? Aside from a lot of practice, was there a technique involved in shooting fast manual?

Some technique, yes. But of course, the focus screen wasn't the plain one on modern dSLRs - there was a split prism and microprism collar around it as focusing aids. You can get such focus screens for current bodies, too, although only some bodies feature easy user replacement of the screen (e.g. the 6D and 1D X do, the 5DIII does not).

I loved the focus screen on my OM-1.... split prism in the center..... makes me wish for the equivalent in the digital era.....

If you are manual focusing a DSLR you have to use live view. The viewfinder is just not good enough.... it gets you close, but not spot on. You really need live view and then to zoom in on your target to properly check focus. Easy to do on a tripod, but hand-held gets a lot trickier.

Also, and this might be my faulty memory speaking, but back in the good old days before auto-focus, when the lenses were designed for manual focus, there seemed to be a lot more twist to the focus mechanism than with today's auto-focus lenses. It used to be that you had around 180 degrees of twist to focus with, now it seems like less than 90, making it harder to precisely manual adjust a lens.

 

[Marsu42]

If you are manual focusing a DSLR you have to use live view. The viewfinder is just not good enough.... it gets you close, but not spot on. You really need live view and then to zoom in on your target to properly check focus.

Or, much better, use Magic Lantern with focus peaking, esp. good with switching the display to b&w. You exactly see where the focus pane is w/o needing to zoom in (well, except if you're shooting f1.2 or macro with very thin dof). And with ml you also see what's under/overexposed (zebras) and even where the midrange tonal values are (false color).

Nowadays I mostly use live-view mf for macro shots, it's faster more precise than constantly af'ing and still missing, with the 60d's swivel screen it's a great tripod setup. I do miss the vf split screen from the ol' days though, it's a pity there's no option to switch this on/off quickly but it needs a vf screen replacement.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Interesting

 

[Artifex]

How were photographers able to manual focus quickly back in the days? Aside from a lot of practice, was there a technique involved in shooting fast manual?

Some technique, yes. But of course, the focus screen wasn't the plain one on modern dSLRs - there was a split prism and microprism collar around it as focusing aids. You can get such focus screens for current bodies, too, although only some bodies feature easy user replacement of the screen (e.g. the 6D and 1D X do, the 5DIII does not).

Very interesting! Although I really like my newer digital gear, I honestly miss the split prism focusing system of my good old Pentax K-1000 film camera.
How do focus screens work on newer body? Are they like the old split prism from the film-era? Any recommendation on which is the best for the 6D? Thanks a lot!

 

[Dantana]

I miss the AE-1 split prism every time I try to focus manually.

Oh, and Don, I think you are right. Most MF lenses back in the day, even less expensive models, had a longer and more precise focus turn. Every once in a while I see it referenced on a high end AF lens in a review, but I know the lenses I own don't have that same precise feel.

I did look into a split prism finder for my XSi like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Split-Image-Focusing-Focus-Screen-for-Canon-450D-500D-/190590997928

But I read somewhere that installing this kind of screen somehow disables the focus confirmation points, though I'm not sure how that would work exactly. Since it's the only body I have at the moment, I don't want to mess it up.

 

[Marsu42]

How do focus screens work on newer body? Are they like the old split prism from the film-era? Any recommendation on which is the best for the 6D? Thanks a lot!

I'd also be interested in some experiences with these, there only seems to be one option left (no katzeyeoptics for ff, brightscreen seems to be out of business). As far as I understand it they screw up spot/partial metering, at least with fast lenses?

http://www.focusingscreen.com/index.php?cPath=21_135

 

[jcollett]

I believe innately knowing this concept and how it applied to their cameras helped a lot especially when street shooting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance

 

[mrsfotografie]

Oh, and Don, I think you are right. Most MF lenses back in the day, even less expensive models, had a longer and more precise focus turn. Every once in a while I see it referenced on a high end AF lens in a review, but I know the lenses I own don't have that same precise feel.

In fact, modern MF lenses also have a longer 'throw' in the focus ring as do my Samyang 14mm and Voightlander 40mm (both are EF mount).

 

[rpt]

I miss the AE-1 split prism every time I try to focus manually.

+1000
I really miss it. Oh! The other day I loaded film into my AE-1 and shot a few pictures. The funny thing is that I have got so used to seeing the image on the LCD screen, that after every image I took on the AE-1, I turned the camera and ended looking at the backplane! LOL! And that is where I keep the tab of the film roll paper box that identifies the ISO and the number of shots. It was hilarious.

 

[Marsu42]

I believe innately knowing this concept and how it applied to their cameras helped a lot especially when street shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance

As it happens, Magic Lantern calculates the hyperfocal distance for you so this helped me a lot.

 

[Sella174]

And lenses had decent distance scales.

 

[Sporgon]

Oh, and Don, I think you are right. Most MF lenses back in the day, even less expensive models, had a longer and more precise focus turn. Every once in a while I see it referenced on a high end AF lens in a review, but I know the lenses I own don't have that same precise feel.

In fact, modern MF lenses also have a longer 'throw' in the focus ring as do my Samyang 14mm and Voightlander 40mm (both are EF mount).

To be fair the manual focus on the L lenses is pretty good as far as damping and gearing is concerned; another one of the reasons I moved from Nikon to Canon around eight years ago.

 

[underjammer]

How do focus screens work on newer body? Are they like the old split prism from the film-era? Any recommendation on which is the best for the 6D? Thanks a lot!

I'd also be interested in some experiences with these, there only seems to be one option left (no katzeyeoptics for ff, brightscreen seems to be out of business). As far as I understand it they screw up spot/partial metering, at least with fast lenses?

http://www.focusingscreen.com/index.php?cPath=21_135

The 6D has an official "user changeable" focus screen, so you can buy the precision screen from Canon.. However, it's not a split prism (or a microprism) focusing screen. It's just a matte screen that shows focus significantly better. But it's only like $35, so it's a good start.. It's called the Canon Eg-S precision focusing screen. I've never used it, so I can't say how dark / hard it is to use if you are using slower lenses with it.. (ie, you're switching out lenses and not switching out the focusing screen..). I surely wouldn't want to swap the screen out a lot..

 

[mrsfotografie]

How do focus screens work on newer body? Are they like the old split prism from the film-era? Any recommendation on which is the best for the 6D? Thanks a lot!

I'd also be interested in some experiences with these, there only seems to be one option left (no katzeyeoptics for ff, brightscreen seems to be out of business). As far as I understand it they screw up spot/partial metering, at least with fast lenses?

http://www.focusingscreen.com/index.php?cPath=21_135

The 6D has an official "user changeable" focus screen, so you can buy the precision screen from Canon.. However, it's not a split prism (or a microprism) focusing screen. It's just a matte screen that shows focus significantly better. But it's only like $35, so it's a good start.. It's called the Canon Eg-S precision focusing screen. I've never used it, so I can't say how dark / hard it is to use if you are using slower lenses with it.. (ie, you're switching out lenses and not switching out the focusing screen..). I surely wouldn't want to swap the screen out a lot..

The EG-S is great and I leave it in my 5DMkII all the time. Viewfinder brightness is comparable to that of the 7D and I don't ever find the viewfinder to be too dark. IMHO these FF camera's should come with the EG-S as standard.

 

[bholliman]

The EG-S is great and I leave it in my 5DMkII all the time. Viewfinder brightness is comparable to that of the 7D and I don't ever find the viewfinder to be too dark. IMHO these FF camera's should come with the EG-S as standard.

How does the EG-S screen work exactly? I'm only familiar with the split prism manual focus screen.

Is the EG-S difficult to install?

Thanks!

 

[mrsfotografie]

The EG-S is great and I leave it in my 5DMkII all the time. Viewfinder brightness is comparable to that of the 7D and I don't ever find the viewfinder to be too dark. IMHO these FF camera's should come with the EG-S as standard.

How does the EG-S screen work exactly? I'm only familiar with the split prism manual focus screen.

Is the EG-S difficult to install?

Thanks!

The normal EG-A screen has micro lenses that are aimed at the center of the frame to produce a bright viewfinder (but also too much DOF), the precision matte is more like ground glass and much more diffuse. I can't quite explain how it works optically, but when you look through the screen it is much easier to see what is in focus and what isn't. The EG-S effectively shows a shallower DOF.

This site ( http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/5d2en.htm ) shows how to change focus screens, I would recommend a Canon EG-S over a third party one as a third party screen may interfere with the metering accuracy of your camera (notice that you need to change a setting in the camera to account for the different screen in use).

 

[rs]

The EG-S is great and I leave it in my 5DMkII all the time. Viewfinder brightness is comparable to that of the 7D and I don't ever find the viewfinder to be too dark. IMHO these FF camera's should come with the EG-S as standard.

How does the EG-S screen work exactly? I'm only familiar with the split prism manual focus screen.

Is the EG-S difficult to install?

Thanks!

The normal EG-A screen has micro lenses that are aimed at the center of the frame to produce a bright viewfinder (but also too much DOF), the precision matte is more like ground glass and much more diffuse. I can't quite explain how it works optically, but when you look through the screen it is much easier to see what is in focus and what isn't. The EG-S effectively shows a shallower DOF.

This site ( http://www.focusingscreen.com/work/5d2en.htm ) shows how to change focus screens, I would recommend a Canon EG-S over a third party one as a third party screen may interfere with the metering accuracy of your camera (notice that you need to change a setting in the camera to account for the different screen in use).

The brightness will really drop off with slower lenses. If you have an f5.6 or f8 lens (or stop your lens down to that and use the depth of field preview button), the EG-S screen will be a lot darker than a normal focus screen.

The rougher, or more matte the focus screen is (such as an EG-S focus screen) the more it can pick up on the off-angle light rays, such as you'd get with the converging light rays from a wide aperture lens. If a focus screen is smoother, such as the stock screen, the artificial 'ground surface' of the plastic screen doesn't have sufficient depth or angles on it to pick up on such off-angle light. The bulk of the light it receives is the stuff close to perpendicular to the focus screen - which explains both why these stock screens don't get as dark when stopped down, and why they can't render the out of focus parts of the image as blurred as the sensor can. Somewhere around f4 to f2.8 is where a stock focus screen fails to show how narrow the DoF is. If you use an f1.2 lens wide open with a standard focus screen, the viewfinder will be very different to the final image.

In response to the original question, focus screens such as the matte EG-S or stock EG-A give the manual focusing user the equivalent info (albiet scaled down) of what contrast detect AF has - no indication of exactly how much it's out by, or any real info about which way it's out. Plus without resorting to magnified live view, you can't accurately see if its 100% there, even with an EG-S screen. But you can hunt around, finding where it looks sharpest and opt for the middle of that acceptable range, hoping for the best if you're only using the non magnified viewfinder. However, a split image focus screen is much like a single point phase detect AF system - the amount and direction of focusing needed to get it spot on are represented by how far out of alignment and which way out of alignment the two parts of the split image are. With not much practice, accurate and fast manual focusing us possible with a split image focus screen.

 

[sanj]

I miss the AE-1 split prism every time I try to focus manually.

+1000
I really miss it. Oh! The other day I loaded film into my AE-1 and shot a few pictures. The funny thing is that I have got so used to seeing the image on the LCD screen, that after every image I took on the AE-1, I turned the camera and ended looking at the backplane! LOL! And that is where I keep the tab of the film roll paper box that identifies the ISO and the number of shots. It was hilarious.

Hahahaa