The 60D came out in August 2010. It's been over 2 years with is a long time for an XXD body. Then even more so the 7D mkII (if there will be one). Where are they? I want a new slightly better high iso sensor with DIGIC 5 and some nice jpeg and video noise reduction.
Where the heck is the 70D or 7D mkII?
- Thread starter Cgdillan
- Start date
- Status
Its pretty obvious that there would be no 7D MK II soon, if ever after they came out with the new firmware.
I think that Canon has been working to perfect their new backlit sensor technology and will likely announnce something in early 2013.
This is just my guess, but it takes into account recent patents and news about additional sensor processing capabilities being added.
I'd much rather see the new technology than a warmed over 18mp sensor with Digic V
I think that Canon has been working to perfect their new backlit sensor technology and will likely announnce something in early 2013.
This is just my guess, but it takes into account recent patents and news about additional sensor processing capabilities being added.
I'd much rather see the new technology than a warmed over 18mp sensor with Digic V
Upvote
0
W
weekendshooter
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly with Spokane on this one - you can think of the T4i as a new 60D and as likely the final body with the long-serving 18mp sensor. The 7D v2 firmware is a likely indication that their new sensor is taking longer than expected to develop, but I'm sure they'll come up with something nice for 2013! In the meantime, the 7D is still the best high-end crop body around, though the D7k is making a nice case for itself as best all-around crop body now that it's price has dropped to $1000 new.
Upvote
0
Before the 6D announcement, I was of the opinion that the 7D series was done.
But considering the 6D specs, I now think the opposite.
Most likely we'll see a 7DII in the spring of next year and a 70D in the fall, IMO.
Interesting to speculate what the 7DII and 70D will offer.
It appears that Canon's strategy is to have the 7DII and the 6D as different upgrade paths for Rebel/60D/70D owners.
But if the 6D is positioned as an (appealing) upgrade option for a 70D owner, then the 70D will have to remain more or less the same as the 60D. In fact, Canon might decide to further Rebelize the 70D.
The 7DII has more room for upgrades in terms of features.
Of course both the 7DII and the 70D will get new sensors plus Digic 5(+) processors.
We'll see.
But considering the 6D specs, I now think the opposite.
Most likely we'll see a 7DII in the spring of next year and a 70D in the fall, IMO.
Interesting to speculate what the 7DII and 70D will offer.
It appears that Canon's strategy is to have the 7DII and the 6D as different upgrade paths for Rebel/60D/70D owners.
But if the 6D is positioned as an (appealing) upgrade option for a 70D owner, then the 70D will have to remain more or less the same as the 60D. In fact, Canon might decide to further Rebelize the 70D.
The 7DII has more room for upgrades in terms of features.
Of course both the 7DII and the 70D will get new sensors plus Digic 5(+) processors.
We'll see.
Upvote
0
unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
The 7D II will be released either in the spring or within one month of the Nikon D300 replacement.
The 70D will be released six to nine months after the 7DII or within one month of the D7000 replacement.
Yes, the 7D is getting a little long in the tooth, but with the firmware upgrade it is still very competitive. By comparison, the 12 mp D300 looks like a dinosaur. I don't know how Nikon manages to sell any of them (or if they do).
As digital technology matures and improvements with each generation become more marginal, expect the refresh cycles for various bodies to extend. What was once a two-year cycle in the 2000s, has become a three-year-plus cycle now. By the end of the decade, it may be four years or more.
The 70D will be released six to nine months after the 7DII or within one month of the D7000 replacement.
Yes, the 7D is getting a little long in the tooth, but with the firmware upgrade it is still very competitive. By comparison, the 12 mp D300 looks like a dinosaur. I don't know how Nikon manages to sell any of them (or if they do).
As digital technology matures and improvements with each generation become more marginal, expect the refresh cycles for various bodies to extend. What was once a two-year cycle in the 2000s, has become a three-year-plus cycle now. By the end of the decade, it may be four years or more.
Upvote
0
Mt Spokane Photography said:
Hmm, when did Canon develop BSI? I'd love to read about that! Got a link? I totally agree, I'd rather see new technology than another 18mp 7D.
Upvote
0
unfocused said:
Has Sony not clearly demonstrated that digital technology is far from mature, and has LOTS of room to continue improving? Canon has failed to improve over the last four years, and Canon has only been producing marginal gains with each successive release (1D X excluded in regards to ISO and AF performance.) Sony, along with Nikon, have been demonstrating a nearly linear improvement year over year regarding technology improvements. There are also plenty of areas where further improvements can be made...ubiquitous BSI, higher megapixel counts with concurrent increases in readout rate, further improvements to Q.E. and S/N, a shift to 16-bit ADC (from 14-bit) which could open up even further gains for higher DR, etc.
Canon needs to stop prototyping cool stuff, and actually put that cool stuff into commercial products. They have 180nm fabrication capabilities, they have demonstrated high pixel densities (2um pixel pitch) with high readout rates, and they have hinted at on-die parallel ADC technology...YEARS ago. It's time the prototypes became real-world products.
Upvote
0
I agree that I would much much rather see a new sensor tech. vs a vamped 18MP. But I just wondering why it's taking so darn long. And I agree. Sony is killing it with sensors and are performing very well in that area. I love my 7D, and am enjoying the new firmware. But I can't help but start feeling left behind by sony sensor tech.
Upvote
0
x-vision said:
I completely with the two separate upgrade paths. And I agree that the 6D is a more natural upgrade path for a 60D user than a 7D user. The 7D is an incredibly fast, tough camera, it is great for shooting sports or journalism, compared to the other EOS bodies except the 1-series. An upgrade to the 7D is likely a new APS-C camera with a great sensor, the 5D3's AF, and the speed of the 7D. The users (sports/journalism) of a 7D also probably appreciate the "built in tele-convertor".
Finally, I don't believe though that the 70D has to be crippled to keep the 6D as an appealing upgrade, I imagine the sensor quality in the 6D will surprise people, and that the DOF advantages of FF are appealing as well.
Upvote
0
The 60D and 7D, Nikon D7000 and Nikon D300s wars are next, clearly. Not sure why it's taking so long, but hope to see some announcements SOON
Upvote
0
Sameer Thawani said:
We should do a poll (maybe I'll really set one up) - but my guess: 7d2 end of 2013, 70d mid-2014 ... Canon wouldn't dare to release a 70d without an updated sensor and just by stuffing video af & touchscreen into it, and the recent sensors show that Canon currently cannot do any better on aps-c - that's why they released the 6d.
Or maybe I'm wrong and Canon really simply refreshes 60d+7d with a new digic and some gimmicks...
Upvote
0
Cgdillan said:
I would only disagree that the 6D IQ will surprise people...unless those people actually expect it to be much better than any other Canon sensor. Canon has not yet demonstrated an improved manufacturing process, so it is doubtful that the 6D sensor will be radically changed in any way.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
true dat. and extending this logic, one has to conclude that whatever sensor the 7D2 gets, it may be incrementally better than the 7D1 but still won't compare with 6D or 5D3. I mean -- even if they could, its not likely that Canon would produce a crop body that would exceed the IQ of a more expensive FF body in the current line-up. It wouldn't surprise me to see (in the 7D2) an increase in MP count, improvements to AF and perhaps even fps, and a measureable improvement to the ISO and noise performannce, but I guess I'm not expecting to be astonished by a market-disruptive IQ or DR. is anyone else?
someone in another thread (pardon the lack of reference) has already suggested that Canon has telgraphed their FF sensor offereings for the next 2-4 years or so, with the 1DX, 5D3, and 6D releases. The big mp body is the unknown at this time, and I suspect this one to be optimized for DR and low ISO, expecially its first release I doubt it will match the ISO performance of the 5D3 for example.
but they have not telegrahped their crop sensors for 2013, and the silence of the 7D2 in this regard is defening. I can only hope that the delays mean a new sensor and not a re-worked t4i sensor.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
The Canon exec in the Photokina interview in some other thread already stated that the 6d sensor uses the same tech level as the 5d2/5d3 sensor, so there won't be any positive surprises here - it's really a 5d2 in a smaller 60d-like body updated to current manufacturing processes like digic5.
Upvote
0
unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Marsu42 said:
I find this perplexing. Comments on this site and others from 5DIII users have led me to believe that the 5DIII shows some significant improvements over the 5DII in noise levels at higher ISOs. So, when you say the 6D uses "the same tech level as the 5DII/5DIII sensor" which sensor are you talking about?
Upvote
0
unfocused said:
The sensor hasn't been improved much on the 5d3, but the readout is cleaner (less banding) and the noise has a "nicer" film-like pattern giving it an edge on iso3200+ ... overall it might be a 0.5 stop improvement with a much more usable iso12800, but "significant improvement" isn't the word that comes to my mind here. The improvements of the 5d3 lie everywhere else, but Canon chose to reserve their best current sensor tech for the 1dx.
I can say that because I d/l'ed 5d2 and 5d3 raw studio samples myself (and so should you!), had a look at them in LR and up to iso1600 there is no difference I can see - some even figure that the 5d3 has worse sharpness than the 5d2 due to a stronger aa filter and it does have a bit less dynamic range (not that anyone would notice, but still...).
If people say the 5d3 is the high iso king imho that's because a) Canon marketing owns them, b) you see what you want to believe after paying $3500, c) the subjective impression how much less banding when raising shadows and the film-like noise pattern improves the picture varies among viewers and individual shots.
Last not least: Even if the iso noise on the 5d3 is somewhat improved, this even more shows the limited dynamic range of current Canon sensors that decreases further the higher the iso setting is. Disclaimer: The 5d3 is a great camera and I still didn't get a 5d2 because I still struggle with myself if I am willing to pay €3000, but the 2 stop improvement Canon predicted is a fairy tale.
Upvote
0
Marsu42 said:
Even according to DXO, the 5D III's DR and noise at HIGH ISO is better, even than the D800. The 5D III only loses ground at LOW ISO, in the ISO range 100-400, where read noise starts eating away STOPS worth of shadow DR. The "quality" of read noise has improved...there seems to be less banding in one direction, with roughly the same in the other direction, so lifting shadows is not as bad as it was before despite the fact that the 5D III has slightly less DR than the 5D II AT LOW ISO. When it comes to High ISO, though, you are ultimately limited by physics. The reason differences in DR across multiple camera brands all normalize in a near-linear faloff curve beyond ISO 400 is because your approaching physical limits. The 5D III fares better at high ISO because it has a higher S/N at those settings (thanks to a weaker CFA, which affects native color fidelity for the tradeoff of higher per-pixel Q.E.)
Noise quality at high ISO is also determined by physics. The random "grainy" nature of 5D III ISO is primarily driven by the physical nature of light. It has far less to do with the electronic makeup of the sensor itself. Lower read noise might help the nature of noise at ISO 800, maybe ISO 1600 (MAYBE), but at high ISO, statistically speaking, the 5D II, 5D III, 1D X, D800, D600, etc. should all pretty much exhibit THE SAME kind of noise for an identical scene...as the hardware at ISO 1600+ really has very little to do with noise characteristics.
unfocused said:
Canon's sensor technology has improved marginally, and basically as little as it possibly could, since the 5D II and original 7D. To achieve any improvement at all while remaining on the same old 500nm fabrication process, Canon effectively had to "cheat". They improved low-ISO noise quality a little by improving S/N overall. They improved S/N overall by improving Q.E. They improved Q.E. by REDUCING the strength of the color filter array (CFA) in the sensor...the red, blue, and green color filters over each pixel. A lower strength CFA allows more light through, but also increases color crosstalk among pixels. Red pixels are now more red-green. Blue pixels are now more blue-green. Green pixels are now more Green-sortaRed-sortaBlue. It's a cheat...a means of extending the life of a very old CMOS fabrication process. It is actually quite amazing Canon has strung a 500nm process along this far, but they really can't extract all that much more out of it, if anything, at this point. The 6D sensor is still being fabricated on the same process as the 5D III sensor, which is the same process as the 5D II, and even the 5DC, the 7D, the 60D, 50D, 40D, etc. dating back to the early 2000's.
So, no...the 6D sensor will not really bring any kind of major sensor fabrication improvements to the table. Canon has experimented with and prototyped sensors on a 180nm Cu wiring fabrication process. Their 50mp APS-H and the 120mp APS-H both used a 180nm process. They have prototyped 180nm sensors that make use of high refractive index lightpipe technology for higher Q.E. that approaches the performance of BSI sensor designs. Based on the 120mp press releases, it even sounds like they have some kind of CP-ADC technology. But they have not yet put any commercial-grade high-volume sensor fabrication on those processes yet (god only knows why...if they don't do so soon, they will really be in a competitive bind.) Regardless, it is highly, highly doubtful that the 6D will offer any kind of major IQ improvements over anything on the market today, and it most likely will use the same 500nm process as every other Canon sensor released in the past decade.
Upvote
0
jrista said:
Thanks for the great explanation and insight, jrista! The only remark I have is that despite your theory that @iso1600+ these sensors should produce the same noise the raw samples I looked at show the more film-like pattern of the 5d3 vs. 5d2, an observation not only I have made?
jrista said:
God might not know why, but marketing does - it's called "planned obsolescence" and means that you should time and stretch innovations so that users always find a reason to get a new product, either because the new one is better in some way (5d2->5d3: body, 5d3->5d4: sensor) or the old one simply breaks and repair is almost as expensive as a new product (most other electronics like lcd displays). Only fierce competition can prevent this method from getting too impudent - go Nikon, go!
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
