Will Canon answer Sony's new cinema cameras

[jeffa4444]

Lets sets some records straight on this thread. Sony did not create CineAlta with Panavision trust me I know.
Sony have brought out the FS7 not because of Canon but because of Blackmagic and the URSA and the AJA Cion, Blackmagic along with Red had massive presence at Photokina.

Canon have done remarkably well with the C300 less so with the C100 and C500. For serious Motion Picture the Arri Alexa is still outfront followed by the Red Dragon, Arri are also doing really well with the Amira.
Red have a module to use the Canon ultrasonic motors with a remote control and the camera can also perform these functions via an upcoming smartphone app. this is an area both Sony and Canon miss to be taken seriously at the high end pro end.
Neither Sony or Canon do full-frame motion picture only Super 35 this means proper anamorphic is out of the question and even the v.good F55 only gets considered for TV.
Lastly the Alexa success is as much down to its uncluttered user controls and simple menus something both Sony and Canon fail to understand.

 

[Policar]

No one uses timecode anymore. Plural Eyes is arguably better than timecode given sound travels only 1 foot/ms.

lol

 

[jeffa4444]

Wrong time-code is still widely used.

 

[Waterdonkey]

The big trouble for Canon will be the the former ENG shooters - I think we are going to be looking really hard at the Sony PXW-FS7.
I want the camera on my shoulder, I need a place for a camera light, I need to hang two wireless receivers somewhere- Canon's CX00's have no real estate for that and separate audio is just Blasphemy to an ENG guy. I know I know but man it just unnerves me to have my audio live somewhere else.
The 10-Bit 4:2:2 50Mbit HD option will allow me to actually deliver this footage to the smaller operations and even some TV clients that have me shoot Special projects or Mini-Docs with that "cinema" look.
Never mind all the slow-mo options.
Once that add-on back is available, I can do Pro Res 422 internally, I can mount a big battery with a D-Tap.
When they figure out H.265 4K or UHD transmission I'll be 4K ready for that too.

Canon didn't do the ergonomics right and in this regard Sony ENG cameras have been spot on for years.

I know all you film / cinema guys love all the wires and screw-on modular bits and pieces but you gotta' admit that a RED all ENG'ed- out for hand held looks like a ridiculous mound of spaghetti. I say that with love.

Us former ENG guys want a grab and go... Run and Gun camera option.... Oh and a Zoom rocker! Thats everything to me. All I ever wanted was a big sensor in and ENG body. With the 28-135mm lens I think my dreams have been answered.

I wonder if NFL films would have bought the Sony FS7 instead of 16 Arri Amiras to replace their film camera's if the FS7 had been available. Even they are on some sort of budget.

 

[Udoed]

I get that red has some traction, but what "high end Hollywood movies" were shot on the F5?

Annie (2014) is shot on F55
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1823664/

And the TV show The blacklist is also F55
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2741602/

 

[peederj]

And no, Sony and Canon don't care about the AJA CION, AJA will probably be out of business entirely this time next year. They also don't particularly care about the other CMOSIS cams from Blackmagic, those are only relevant to internet fanboys. The FS7's design process started around the introduction of the C300 and it aimed directly at it in ways they thought Canon would have trouble matching within the product cycle. E.g. the ENG crossover ergonomics as mentioned. But I think Canon will have an answer by NAB, they aren't far off.

Also the C100 does allow LANC focus control. Doesn't work terrifically good but it does work. They will have Wifi focus worked out well for the next generation.

Yes the F55 is being used for high-end TV, I've watched the Wachowskis use it for Sense8.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

Lets sets some records straight on this thread. Sony did not create CineAlta with Panavision trust me I know.
Sony have brought out the FS7 not because of Canon but because of Blackmagic and the URSA and the AJA Cion, Blackmagic along with Red had massive presence at Photokina.

Canon have done remarkably well with the C300 less so with the C100 and C500. For serious Motion Picture the Arri Alexa is still outfront followed by the Red Dragon, Arri are also doing really well with the Amira.
Red have a module to use the Canon ultrasonic motors with a remote control and the camera can also perform these functions via an upcoming smartphone app. this is an area both Sony and Canon miss to be taken seriously at the high end pro end.
Neither Sony or Canon do full-frame motion picture only Super 35 this means proper anamorphic is out of the question and even the v.good F55 only gets considered for TV.
Lastly the Alexa success is as much down to its uncluttered user controls and simple menus something both Sony and Canon fail to understand.

No offence intended Jeffa but this comment is nearly entirely incorrect information.

-Sony worked with Panavision in designing many cameras, most notably the F35 which is also rebadged as the Panavision genesis.
-The FS7 is more likely a response to the most successful camera in its target field (C300) rather than a response to two cameras that have not been released yet, and that are designed for a different field anyway (controlled environments) as they max out at 400 ISO. The FS7 is a documentary camera intended to replace the C300's position.
-The C100 is more successful than the C300 in sales numbers, both are extremely successful, the most successful video cameras today actually. The C500 is less so due to the fierce competetion from Arri/Red.
-The C100/300/500 can be controled wirelessly with a smartphone/tablet, giving you a live video feed, ability to change all the settings and start/stop triggering. I used it myself, works brilliantly on the C300, you just put the dongle in its dedicated port and open your web browser on your tablet/phonehhhhh
-Nobody does full frame motion picture cinema cameras, super 35 is the "full frame" of the video world. Red Epic and Scarlet are s35, so are the Arri Alexa and Amira, and Canon C100/300/500 and Sonys FS7/FS700/F5/F55/F65 and Blackmagic ursa and Aja Cion, and all cinema cameras. You don't need full frame to shoot anamorphic, it doesnt have anything to do with that, what you need is 4:3 aspect ratio, only the Alexa offers that. You can still shoot anamorphic on all these cameras given their high resolution though, and of course anamorphic is a very small/niche market.
-The Alexa's success is not due to the menu interface, it's due to the special colour science they employ, and extremely high dynamic range and very filmic response in the highlight roll off. Skin tones look absolutely lovely on the Alexa, very organic. 99% of the Alexa shooters use it only because it's the closest digital camera to 35mm film in terms of image charachterestics. They would not care less about the menu system as long as everything works, it's all about the image unless it's an ENG camera. Actually the Alexa is the farthest from simplicity and ease of use compared to Canons/Sonys, it's extremely heavy, requires a matte box, EVF, monitor, requires an external Codex recorder, and requires heavy media managment, but that's fine because it's designed to be used in controlled environments where you have time to set up your camera. If you need a ENG style camera they made the Amira for that Canon menus are very simple too. Sonys are fine too.

 

[Etienne]

Lets sets some records straight on this thread. Sony did not create CineAlta with Panavision trust me I know.
Sony have brought out the FS7 not because of Canon but because of Blackmagic and the URSA and the AJA Cion, Blackmagic along with Red had massive presence at Photokina.

Canon have done remarkably well with the C300 less so with the C100 and C500. For serious Motion Picture the Arri Alexa is still outfront followed by the Red Dragon, Arri are also doing really well with the Amira.
Red have a module to use the Canon ultrasonic motors with a remote control and the camera can also perform these functions via an upcoming smartphone app. this is an area both Sony and Canon miss to be taken seriously at the high end pro end.
Neither Sony or Canon do full-frame motion picture only Super 35 this means proper anamorphic is out of the question and even the v.good F55 only gets considered for TV.
Lastly the Alexa success is as much down to its uncluttered user controls and simple menus something both Sony and Canon fail to understand.

No offence intended Jeffa but this comment is nearly entirely incorrect information.

-Sony worked with Panavision in designing many cameras, most notably the F35 which is also rebadged as the Panavision genesis.
-The FS7 is more likely a response to the most successful camera in its target field (C300) rather than a response to two cameras that have not been released yet, and that are designed for a different field anyway (controlled environments) as they max out at 400 ISO. The FS7 is a documentary camera intended to replace the C300's position.
-The C100 is more successful than the C300 in sales numbers, both are extremely successful, the most successful video cameras today actually. The C500 is less so due to the fierce competetion from Arri/Red.
-The C100/300/500 can be controled wirelessly with a smartphone/tablet, giving you a live video feed, ability to change all the settings and start/stop triggering. I used it myself, works brilliantly on the C300, you just put the dongle in its dedicated port and open your web browser on your tablet/phonehhhhh
-Nobody does full frame motion picture cinema cameras, super 35 is the "full frame" of the video world. Red Epic and Scarlet are s35, so are the Arri Alexa and Amira, and Canon C100/300/500 and Sonys FS7/FS700/F5/F55/F65 and Blackmagic ursa and Aja Cion, and all cinema cameras. You don't need full frame to shoot anamorphic, it doesnt have anything to do with that, what you need is 4:3 aspect ratio, only the Alexa offers that. You can still shoot anamorphic on all these cameras given their high resolution though, and of course anamorphic is a very small/niche market.
-The Alexa's success is not due to the menu interface, it's due to the special colour science they employ, and extremely high dynamic range and very filmic response in the highlight roll off. Skin tones look absolutely lovely on the Alexa, very organic. 99% of the Alexa shooters use it only because it's the closest digital camera to 35mm film in terms of image charachterestics. They would not care less about the menu system as long as everything works, it's all about the image unless it's an ENG camera. Actually the Alexa is the farthest from simplicity and ease of use compared to Canons/Sonys, it's extremely heavy, requires a matte box, EVF, monitor, requires an external Codex recorder, and requires heavy media managment, but that's fine because it's designed to be used in controlled environments where you have time to set up your camera. If you need a ENG style camera they made the Amira for that Canon menus are very simple too. Sonys are fine too.

Interesting post, but I don't thing the C100 offers wifi control.

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

The Canon WTF-E6 wireless transmitter works with the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX, and I think the 7D mk II now. It supports autofocus when the DPAF upgrade is installed too.

 

[Etienne]

The Canon WTF-E6 wireless transmitter works with the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX, and I think the 7D mk II now. It supports autofocus when the DPAF upgrade is installed too.

The C100 is not included. See here: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/firmware-canon-eos-c100-eos-c300-updates-available/

 

[Ebrahim Saadawi]

The Canon WTF-E6 wireless transmitter works with the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX, and I think the 7D mk II now. It supports autofocus when the DPAF upgrade is installed too.

The C100 is not included. See here: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/firmware-canon-eos-c100-eos-c300-updates-available/

Yes I was mistaken sorry, the C100 does not have wifi capability. It was listed mistakingly on the B&h page before. The WFT-E60 is compatiable with the C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX and now 7D mk II.

It seems like such a useful feature to remove from the C100 for product differentiation, the C300 already has the broadcast ready 4:2:2 50mbits codec, 60p, the usable EVF, better articulating screen, HDSDI out, CF cards, and many. The Wifi feature would actually be more useful to the low-end indie market rather than the higher-end one.

Idea: would anyone be interested if Canon made an even lower-end version of the C100 for around the 5D price point? If it has the same beautiful image but they remove the evf, only 1 SD card slot, the 4:2:2 clean hdmi output, the ND filters, and put is in a smaller/plasticier body, a C50. I think it would be an incredibly powerful upgrade for the Canon DSLR video shooters.

 

[Etienne]

The Canon WTF-E6 wireless transmitter works with the C100, C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX, and I think the 7D mk II now. It supports autofocus when the DPAF upgrade is installed too.

The C100 is not included. See here: http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/11/firmware-canon-eos-c100-eos-c300-updates-available/

Yes I was mistaken sorry, the C100 does not have wifi capability. It was listed mistakingly on the B&h page before. The WFT-E60 is compatiable with the C300, C500, 1DC, 1DX and now 7D mk II.

It seems like such a useful feature to remove from the C100 for product differentiation, the C300 already has the broadcast ready 4:2:2 50mbits codec, 60p, the usable EVF, better articulating screen, HDSDI out, CF cards, and many. The Wifi feature would actually be more useful to the low-end indie market rather than the higher-end one.

Idea: would anyone be interested if Canon made an even lower-end version of the C100 for around the 5D price point? If it has the same beautiful image but they remove the evf, only 1 SD card slot, the 4:2:2 clean hdmi output, the ND filters, and put is in a smaller/plasticier body, a C50. I think it would be an incredibly powerful upgrade for the Canon DSLR video shooters.

I'd be interested. Or just a C100 mk II with updated competitive feature set.