canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => EOS-M => Topic started by: expatinasia on July 11, 2013, 01:36:34 AM

Title: Canon EOS M II
Post by: expatinasia on July 11, 2013, 01:36:34 AM
With so many of you here at CR buying the Canon EOS M version one, I am just curious, especially in light of the fact that the US$ 299 is STILL ongoing*, when you think Mark II will be out?




*at least when this poll was created.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: J.R. on July 11, 2013, 01:41:39 AM
I would hazard a guess ... announced in September and available in October this year. 
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Dylan777 on July 11, 2013, 09:19:14 AM
I would hazard a guess ... announced in September and available in October this year.

 ;D ;D ;D....what about the new UWA lens?
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Hannes on July 11, 2013, 11:41:14 AM
I would think in time for Christmas but leaving a little time to get the 70D out of the door as I'm assuming they are going to be using the same sensor
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 11, 2013, 11:46:58 AM
I would think in time for Christmas but leaving a little time to get the 70D out of the door as I'm assuming they are going to be using the same sensor

Perhaps not.  The initial rumor was one more M model released before they bring out the one with the dual pixel AF of the 70D.  They could still release an M with an updated sensor - the current M uses the T4i/650D's Hybrid CMOS sensor, and the T5i/700D sensor is Hybrid CMOS II.  So, my guess is we'll see another 'consumer' M with the T5i's sensor, sometime around the end of summer for delivery well before the holidays, followed a 'pro' M with dual pixel AF announced in the first quarter of 2014.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: RLPhoto on July 11, 2013, 02:40:14 PM
If it has that dual Pixel CMOS, I still wouldn't buy it. I already bought a g15.  :P
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: PureAmateur on July 11, 2013, 04:02:26 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 11, 2013, 05:12:20 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

+1 on the need for more lenses.  In that regard, Canon USA's decision not to launch the one recently announced lens (11-22mm) completely baffles me.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: RGF on July 11, 2013, 05:30:58 PM
Depends upon sensor size.  Nikon went sub-APS-C in size. Will the next M from Canon be an APS-C sensor or smaller?  I think there will be a minor upgrade this autumn in time for Christmas shopping and then something more major next year (so everyone can upgrade).
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: FunPhotons on July 11, 2013, 06:38:54 PM
+1 on the need for more lenses.  In that regard, Canon USA's decision not to launch the one recently announced lens (11-22mm) completely baffles me.

Agree on the lack of UWA in the U.S. Timing it to the recent price cut would have seemed to be brilliant.

I'll be happy to see more lenses but the present lineup is pretty good, as soon as I can get a 11-22 that is. With the adaptor I've got coming in today I suddenly get another case full of lenses, even though they're not optimal (but much cheaper when shared). Looking forward to putting the fisheye zoom on it, I love fisheye on a crop sensor.

I have to say though these EOS M lenses are beautifully built. They may have a lot of plastic on the inside but the low profile, sleek look is great to see on a canon. I don't like all the rubber they put on the L lenses.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: JohanCruyff on July 11, 2013, 07:07:05 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

+1 on the need for more lenses.  In that regard, Canon USA's decision not to launch the one recently announced lens (11-22mm) completely baffles me.


Is this "to rub salt in the wounds"? The EF-S 10-22 costs twice as much at amazon.it...




A good reason for a trip to Europe!  ;)
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: pj1974 on July 11, 2013, 07:18:10 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

+1 on the need for more lenses.  In that regard, Canon USA's decision not to launch the one recently announced lens (11-22mm) completely baffles me.

I can see that the EOS-M is a great back-up / 'small portable, yet quality' camera for many people.  For me, the EOS-M size with the kit zoom lens (18-55mm) doesn't make it as convenient as I want. The 11-22mmmm UWA would work for many people as a landscape / 'hiking' combination too. But again, that lens is not 'ultra thin'.  However with the 22mm f/2 pancake prime, the size of the EOS-M is smaller - so that's great in theory - but I do like to have zoom for my 'small, travel camera'.   

A few weeks ago I bought a Sony RX-100 for my fiancee - she loves it. The size is just perfect for her (eg to place in her bag, and take everywhere). The EOS-M with 18-55mm is quite a lot larger. I 'tested' the RX-100 before I gave it to her, to check whether it operated well - (eg if I needed to return it). I was impressed with the image quality - though it doesn't match a DSLR (and thus doesn't quite have the DOF control as an EOS-M either).

My question is - while the recent EOS-M packages (22mm prime and 18-55mm) were on special in B&H (and Adorama / Amazon too if I remember correctly) - and 'made available' to US customers, surely this could have been bought by non-US customers too, right? (just paying an addition for postage eg about $60 shipping to here, Australia?)

And in the same manner, can't US customers obtain the EOS-M 11-22mm UWA zoom by either ordering from online retailers (not based in US - but who are willing to ship to the US)... or have a friend buy for them outside the US and ship (eg insured) to US?

I am, like Neuro, also baffled why the 11-22mm EOS-M lens isn't for sale directly in US.  It appears that lens IS available here in Australia (http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/Personal/Products/Cameras-and-Accessories/Compact-System-Cameras/EF-M-11-22mm-f4-56-IS-STM (http://www.canon.com.au/en-AU/Personal/Products/Cameras-and-Accessories/Compact-System-Cameras/EF-M-11-22mm-f4-56-IS-STM))

I look forward to hearing from people about obtaining camera equipment from other countries, when either that equipment, OR a particular deal isn't available in other locations directly. I I could see the market is easily flooded with more grey imports that way, right?

[By the way, the EOS-M lenses so far tested on www.SLRgear.com (http://www.SLRgear.com) appear to have very good IQ. That bodes good things for the future!... eg what the EOS-M II and EOS-M III will be as a package... I hope that Dual Pixel live view AF will soon be Canon's standard for all digital cameras!]

Paul
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 11, 2013, 07:40:19 PM
With the adaptor I've got coming in today I suddenly get another case full of lenses, even though they're not optimal (but much cheaper when shared).

I have to say though these EOS M lenses are beautifully built. They may have a lot of plastic on the inside but the low profile, sleek look is great to see on a canon.

Agreed. There are other little perks to the EF-M lenses - for example, the barrel of the 22mm lens automatically retracts when the M is powered off, but the barrel of the (adapted) 40mm lens doesn't, despite both being STM 'pancake' lenses.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Drizzt321 on July 11, 2013, 07:42:49 PM
Not sure, but I'd bet before the holiday season, possibly before the back-to-school gets in full swing.

While I missed out on the $300, I did finally decide to jump while it's still at $350, so still pretty inexpensive. I decided to because while I was considering on staying with film only this year at Burning Man, but then decided it might be nice to have a decent digital camera to do time lapses or things like that, but not my 5d2/5d3. Plus, I can get something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/937742-REG/dicapac_wp_s3_waterproof_case_for_mirrorless.html) and be pretty sure it won't come back completely full of dust and inoperable. Or maybe I'll cobble together something with some plastic wrap/screen protector, gaffers tape, and a decent UV filter for the 22mm lens.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Powder Portraits on July 11, 2013, 08:50:16 PM
Here is a Email I received this afternoon from Adorama about the EOS-M I ordered the evening they went on sale. Lucky I also made a backup order which has shipped from Amazon. I would bet a EOS -M replacement is well on its way.

"Dear Customer,

Thank you for ordering the CANON EOS M EF-M22MM STM KIT. Please understand that since this special offer was re-posted on numerous 'deals' websites, the demand for this item simply outnumbered the supply that we had on hand.

At this moment we are not able to get more quantity to be able to supply all open orders, we therefore have no other choice but to cancel your order.
We apologize for any inconvenience.

Adorama Customer Service."
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Etienne on July 11, 2013, 08:52:10 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

+1 here ... I'd like a 15mm f/2.8 pancake and a 50 mm f/2 IS

That would give FF equiv 24mm, 35mm (the 22mm f/2),  and 80mm in a really small light package for travel!
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: distant.star on July 11, 2013, 08:53:31 PM
+1 on the need for more lenses.  In that regard, Canon USA's decision not to launch the one recently announced lens (11-22mm) completely baffles me.

As I've often said, peering into the mind of Canon is like staring at the sun looking for a single hydrogen atom. You'll never see one, and you'll go blind trying.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: sdsr on July 11, 2013, 09:15:12 PM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

I agree: unless you're going to use it merely as an emergency back-up, putting full-size DSLR lenses on it seems self-defeating, especially since in many cases it's the lens, not the DSLR body, that's bulky and heavy.  The problem is, if you're not going to use it as a backup (I probably won't - I have two Canon FF bodies) but want it as a compact system as an alternative to DSLR gear, there are already such things out there which are  superior now and may remain so.  E.g., a few months ago I bought an Olympus OMD for that purpose, and there's a wide range of small, light, and extremely good lenses etc. for it and other m43 cameras (smaller and lighter than the Ms are likely to have).  Why would anyone wanting a compact system bother with the M at all at this point unless they're happy with the limited choice of lenses?  I ordered an M because the price is ridiculous, I'm somewhat curious, and the 22mm lens looks rather cute; but I'm half inclined to cancel my order if B&H hasn't shipped it....
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: tcmatthews on July 11, 2013, 09:40:28 PM
Do not think the next EOS M will make it to the US Market.  For a long time Canon has ignored the mirror-less system.  I think they underestimated the competition and were relying on the Canon name to sale cameras.   And at $599 it was to expensive for the performance.  I would buy Sony Nex all day given the price comparison.  It was lacking the features a large number of enthusiasts would like such as physical buttons/EVF etc. 

From a point and shoot perspective it is lacking the focus tools and features that are now common on Point and Shoot and smart phones.  (Facial recognition, blink detection, smile detection wireless I can go on all day.)

It was poorly though out, poorly marketed, and late to the party. It showed a lack of commitment and market understanding.  It also lacked presence in retail locations.  I can go buy Nikon one, Samsung whatever or a Nex at Walmart, I have never seen a EOS M anywhere.  It is a little harder to fine m4/3 camera but they sometimes carry them at Frys.

I think they really need to do more development and bring out a solid performer. 

I think the 299 price was a market capitulation and the steal of the year.  I can not wait to get ML on mine.
Given the build quality of the M it is likely that Canon lost money on this one.  Given the manufacture 300 off instant rebate if not manufacturing then on R&D.

They will be reducing a lower end more plastic model to replace the current model probably in Asia and other markets were mirror-less is more popular.  In the US I do not expect to see another M until the EOS 70d sensor is put in one and that will only happen if they have some success selling the cheaper model. 

I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: tbob32 on July 11, 2013, 10:12:50 PM
I sent the following email to CanonUSA today:

I ordered an EOS M from B&H Photo this week that is on it's way. I just noticed that a new lens is available everywhere but the U.S. and notices from Canon that it will not be and won't be supported.  

This is making me nervous about the future of the M and whether I should just return this to B&H upon arrival. Does Canon intend to support and develop the M line in the U.S. or abandon it once the current stock is gone at the discounted prices?

Concerned in the U.S.
Robert Taylor


And received the following reply a couple of hours later:


Dear Robert Taylor:

Thank you for contacting Canon product support about the EOS M.

You are correct.  At this time, we do not have plans to sell the EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM due to current market conditions.

As to the future of the EOS M line, I do not have any information to support one side or the other.  New products will be announced as they become available, should they be released. 

As always, the best place to locate current information and press releases is on our newsroom website here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=20 (http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=20)

I hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance with your EOS M. Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

Andrew
Technical Support Representative

Special Note: Certain issues are very difficult to resolve via email. If your question remains unanswered after you have received this email, you may call our special toll-free number for email customers with unresolved issues and speak to a technician by dialing 1-866-261-9362, Monday - Friday 8:00 a.m. - 12:00 midnight ET, and Saturday 10:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m. ET (excluding holidays).

If you prefer to continue to communicate via email, reply to this message and we will respond as quickly as possible.

The statement about not releasing due to current market conditions does not inspire faith. I'll still keep it but I'm not expecting many new accessories.

Bob T
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: neuroanatomist on July 11, 2013, 10:37:18 PM
FYI, the EF-M 11-22mm can be ordered from Henry's or Vistek in Canada, and they will ship to the US.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: PureAmateur on July 12, 2013, 09:14:38 AM
I personally think that we do not need a new M body that urgent.  What we need is a more comprehensive M system – more lenses and accessories available.  The EOS M should not be only a backup camera for the EOS DSLR.  It is nice that I can put the L lenses to my M body once in a while, but I prefer to use it with more choice of smaller lenses as my daily camera.

I agree: unless you're going to use it merely as an emergency back-up, putting full-size DSLR lenses on it seems self-defeating, especially since in many cases it's the lens, not the DSLR body, that's bulky and heavy.  The problem is, if you're not going to use it as a backup (I probably won't - I have two Canon FF bodies) but want it as a compact system as an alternative to DSLR gear, there are already such things out there which are  superior now and may remain so.  E.g., a few months ago I bought an Olympus OMD for that purpose, and there's a wide range of small, light, and extremely good lenses etc. for it and other m43 cameras (smaller and lighter than the Ms are likely to have).  Why would anyone wanting a compact system bother with the M at all at this point unless they're happy with the limited choice of lenses?  I ordered an M because the price is ridiculous, I'm somewhat curious, and the 22mm lens looks rather cute; but I'm half inclined to cancel my order if B&H hasn't shipped it....

I am one of the EOS-M early adopters (yes, I paid the premium).  Initially I thought that it’s good idea to have a small camera to pair with my Canon DSLR and lenses system for daily use but soon I found out that was not the case.  Not to mention the “unergonomic” use of the EOS-M with the full frame lenses for causal shooting (you feel heavier to hold the camera in the air a foot away from you when comparing to stuck a DSLR to your face), at some events, I want to be low profile but with a big lenses attached to a small camera, it even draws more attention than using DSLR!

EOS-M is a nice camera with quality built and the ability to use the EF/EF-S lenses is certainly an advantage when you have special needs.  But Canon’s concern on having the DSLR market share stolen is wrong.  I am sure that most of us here can afford to run two systems – DSLR when performance and/or IQ are needed and Mirrorless for convenience.  If Canon does not act fast to build a more comprehensive Mirrorless product line, their market share will eventually be eaten by other companies.  In fact, I am eyeing on the Olympus PEN E-P5 if its price drops a bit later… But I hope that Canon will catch up also.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: expatinasia on July 12, 2013, 10:16:07 PM
Sorry guys, just realised I did not add the obvious: "There will never be a Canon EOS M ii". Cheers.
Title: Re: Canon EOS M II
Post by: Policar on July 12, 2013, 11:40:59 PM
This camera's an odd duck. IQ is very good for what it is. The 22mm lens is extremely sharp wide open. Sensor is that old familiar 7D.

The system seems horribly misguided, though. This handles like a consumer camera, but while touch to shoot is cool, it's too slow for most purposes. The lack of an optical finder (or nice EVF) is a deal-killer for "serious" photographers, and the smallness is totally negated by the lack of non-huge lenses available outside the obvious two (and even the 22mm f2 is bigger than one might like for a pocket camera) and the charger's size. I like Canon's gear for its ease of use... not its IQ necessarily, but the colors are always punchy and nice out of the box. Friends make fun of my 5D Mark III and C100 when comparing them with the D800 and Red/BMCC, but then these cameras work so well in the field. But the M is not a well-designed product or at least not thought out that well... or over-thought out. Would rather have an X100s!

Canon's menus are still too complicated. Better than Nikon and Panasonic but awful on most of their products. The pro stuff is best (nothing is useless or wasted), but their high end consumer stuff (5D Mark III, etc.) is full of dumb features and the M has poor ergonomics beyond this, which makes it really awkward. All these companies could learn something from Apple. But the lens is great, and it's a great focal length, and this is a tiny back up, which is cool.

Not sure there will be a follow-up. The images look good. With a few pancake lenses it could be a cool system. I want to put a tilt/shift adapter on it and have a tiny landscape kit. Interesting that the introduce the new 70D AF technology right after they put these on firesale... seems to hint at an update. New firmware is odd for a camera they want to get rid of, too. And yet the lack of availability on the 11-22mm seems to indicate they're trashing the line.

I dig the small lenses on M43. Can sort of see why that's popular now.