canon rumors FORUM

Gear Talk => Lenses => Topic started by: scaptic on April 18, 2014, 02:22:47 PM

Title: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 18, 2014, 02:22:47 PM
My current gear is still doing fine, but the time has come to think about an upgrade. I’m planning to:

a) Move to Full Frame (ditching the “0” on my 60D and going for a 6D);
b) Switch to primes (which I tend to use as “2-way” prime anyway).

The choice for a 6D is mainly a financial one, but for most of my photography (mainly landscapes) it will do just as well as a 5DmkIII. A possible drawback of the 6D is the wildlife shots, but I think I would actually prefer a 70D (or maybe 7DmkII) over a 5DmkIII because of the higher fps and crop factor.

I’ll keep my L zooms (70-200 f/4 and 100-400) for now, but the EF-S lenses need to go. For my new prime lenses it’s hard not to get excited about the new Sigma ART lenses, but:

I’m shooting landscapes most of the time. As such, I tend to use apertures from f/4 and upward.
When comparing the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART to a more moderate priced Canon 35mm f/2 IS, the latter actually isn’t doing that bad:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)

There is no Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART yet (thus an unfair comparison), but the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS seems to be dropping the ball a bit:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)
The Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART is rumored to be heavier and more expensive as the 35mm Art.

Although the mentioned Canon IS Prime lenses are not as good wide open, they have some clear advantages:

Am I missing something, or is this actually a viable option? Any good experiences using these Canon lenses for landscapes?


Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Random Orbits on April 18, 2014, 07:40:43 PM
Have you considered Canon's 24-70 f/4 IS?  It'll be similar to what you're considering stopped down, and carrying zoom might be easier than a few primes.

The new Canon IS lenses are nice and compact (I've used the 24 and 28), and they can be had for decent prices when they go on sale or through the refurb store.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Don Haines on April 18, 2014, 08:10:29 PM
Have you considered Canon's 24-70 f/4 IS?  It'll be similar to what you're considering stopped down, and carrying zoom might be easier than a few primes.
I second that.

The 24-70 F4 IS is a VERY nice lens and there is a bundle with the 6D and that lens.... it is harder to find than the 24-105 bundle, but the lens is so much sharper..... It's sharper than a lot of the primes that it's range covers....

Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 19, 2014, 05:24:03 AM
I did think briefly about the Canon general purpose zooms like the 24-70 f/2.8 II and the 24-105.

The 24-70 f/2.8 is a bit too expensive and heavy for me (for hiking/backpacking).
The performance of the 24-105 lens at the wide side seams to be lagging a bit (>50% will be shot at 24mm).

I must admit I completely overlooked the 24-70 f/4 IS, which is an interesting option.

The test sheet on the 24mm f/2.8 IS looks a little bit better (but I’m the first to admit that test sheets do not equal real life performance):
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=823&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=823&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=2)

Maybe I should go for a kit including the 24-105 and a separate 24mm f/2.8 IS…
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: CarlTN on April 19, 2014, 05:32:35 AM
My current gear is still doing fine, but the time has come to think about an upgrade. I’m planning to:

a) Move to Full Frame (ditching the “0” on my 60D and going for a 6D);
b) Switch to primes (which I tend to use as “2-way” prime anyway).

The choice for a 6D is mainly a financial one, but for most of my photography (mainly landscapes) it will do just as well as a 5DmkIII. A possible drawback of the 6D is the wildlife shots, but I think I would actually prefer a 70D (or maybe 7DmkII) over a 5DmkIII because of the higher fps and crop factor.

I’ll keep my L zooms (70-200 f/4 and 100-400) for now, but the EF-S lenses need to go. For my new prime lenses it’s hard not to get excited about the new Sigma ART lenses, but:

I’m shooting landscapes most of the time. As such, I tend to use apertures from f/4 and upward.
When comparing the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART to a more moderate priced Canon 35mm f/2 IS, the latter actually isn’t doing that bad:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)

There is no Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART yet (thus an unfair comparison), but the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS seems to be dropping the ball a bit:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)
The Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART is rumored to be heavier and more expensive as the 35mm Art.

Although the mentioned Canon IS Prime lenses are not as good wide open, they have some clear advantages:
  • They are much smaller and lighter (the combined weight of the 24mm and 35mm Canons is actually less than a single Sigma 35mm ART, a big bonus when hiking);
  • They are (much) cheaper (the possible savings could bring a 5DmkIII in reach, but likely be spend on more glass);
  • They offer IS (which I don’t care about, but could be good for filming).

Am I missing something, or is this actually a viable option? Any good experiences using these Canon lenses for landscapes?

You can buy my Sigma 24mm f/1.8 for less than half what the 35mm Art costs, new.  It has about as low barrel distortion as the Art.  Just has a bit more coma and CA.  It's manageable.  (The Art is not immune to these either).  Closed to f/9 or so, the Sigma 24mm is pretty sharp across the frame (doesn't have the contrast of the Art).  Also it's a quasi macro lens, very useful for wildflowers, or insects...placing them in a wider context than a macro telephoto does.  The Art would clearly be superior optically, but it's not as wide, and isn't a macro. 

If you have to have the best landscape lenses, then buy the 35mm Art, and the Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Distagon.  The Canon 17 and 24mm T/S lenses are also very good to excellent, with the tilt shift feature being vital for serious architecture work, but can also work well for landscape.  If you are very extremely serious about only doing landscape (and no architecture), you should just consider forgetting all of this (and forget Canon), and buy only a D800 and the 21mm Distagon.  It's sharper than the newer 15mm Zeiss f/2.8, costs a third less...isn't as wide, but width isn't everything.  Not sure when or what will best the 21mm Zeiss.  It has noticable mustache distortion, but the resolution is worth having to correct it when needed (most landscape shots won't need correcting all of it).  The 21mm is what I would get if I simply had to have the best (and only did wide angle landscapes), but thankfully I don't.  The 18mm Zeiss appears to have great color, but is just not remotely as sharp, has a slow aperture, and quite severe vignetting that doesn't go away until f/7.1 or so.  Costs about 65% the price of the 21mm, though. 

Frankly I'd like a 21mm "Art" from Sigma, rather than a 24mm.  I doubt it would be quite as good as the existing Distagon, though, but might cost less.

I've had the 24-105L since fall, and rented one before that.  It's great for a general purpose lens.  At 24mm, it has severe barrel distortion at 5% or so, and fairly high chromatic aberration towards borders and corners.  That's all correctable, but you lose a bit of resolution and angle of view, when correcting the barrel distortion.  Of course you don't always have to correct it.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Andrew Davies Photography on April 19, 2014, 06:02:55 AM
My current gear is still doing fine, but the time has come to think about an upgrade. I’m planning to:

a) Move to Full Frame (ditching the “0” on my 60D and going for a 6D);
b) Switch to primes (which I tend to use as “2-way” prime anyway).

The choice for a 6D is mainly a financial one, but for most of my photography (mainly landscapes) it will do just as well as a 5DmkIII. A possible drawback of the 6D is the wildlife shots, but I think I would actually prefer a 70D (or maybe 7DmkII) over a 5DmkIII because of the higher fps and crop factor.

I’ll keep my L zooms (70-200 f/4 and 100-400) for now, but the EF-S lenses need to go. For my new prime lenses it’s hard not to get excited about the new Sigma ART lenses, but:

I’m shooting landscapes most of the time. As such, I tend to use apertures from f/4 and upward.
When comparing the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART to a more moderate priced Canon 35mm f/2 IS, the latter actually isn’t doing that bad:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)

There is no Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART yet (thus an unfair comparison), but the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS seems to be dropping the ball a bit:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)
The Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART is rumored to be heavier and more expensive as the 35mm Art.

Although the mentioned Canon IS Prime lenses are not as good wide open, they have some clear advantages:
  • They are much smaller and lighter (the combined weight of the 24mm and 35mm Canons is actually less than a single Sigma 35mm ART, a big bonus when hiking);
  • They are (much) cheaper (the possible savings could bring a 5DmkIII in reach, but likely be spend on more glass);
  • They offer IS (which I don’t care about, but could be good for filming).

Am I missing something, or is this actually a viable option? Any good experiences using these Canon lenses for landscapes?

I have both the 35 and 24 IS lenses from Canon, the 35 is stunning the 24 i have not yet had enough chance to fully evaluate there seems to be a quite sharp and gritty quality about its images, I use it during weddings for the shots that need it for which it works great , i am not sure however in the long term it would suffice as a landscape lens - reason being i think 24 is not quite wide enough on full frame for some shots and the lens although well made does not feel like it would take the hammering that my previous 17-40 and 24-70s took whilst landscaping , that said it is sharp and this shot is straight from camera not sharpened at iso 100 f8 on tripod should give you an idea of the lens itself.

(http://www.andrew-davies.com/cathedral%20photo.jpg)

cheers
Andrew

www.andrew-davies.com (http://www.andrew-davies.com)
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: ecka on April 19, 2014, 10:36:13 AM
There is no Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART yet (thus an unfair comparison), but the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS seems to be dropping the ball a bit:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)
The Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART is rumored to be heavier and more expensive as the 35mm Art.

Although the mentioned Canon IS Prime lenses are not as good wide open, they have some clear advantages:
  • They are much smaller and lighter (the combined weight of the 24mm and 35mm Canons is actually less than a single Sigma 35mm ART, a big bonus when hiking);
  • They are (much) cheaper (the possible savings could bring a 5DmkIII in reach, but likely be spend on more glass);
  • They offer IS (which I don’t care about, but could be good for filming).

Am I missing something, or is this actually a viable option? Any good experiences using these Canon lenses for landscapes?

There is an older Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 which is near as good optically as the new stabilized version, only cheaper and smaller.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=246&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=246&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=3)
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Policar on April 19, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
90mm TS-E.

Wide angle landscapes look terrible.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 19, 2014, 11:18:33 AM
Everybody thanks for the input; there is a lot to think about when replacing both the camera and lenses and this is very useful.

When I check my photo’s in Lightroom, I’m using my 17-55 at 17mm and around 22-24mm almost exclusively. The 24mm would actually give me a wider angle when taking the crop-factor into account. I hardly ever use my 10-20mm on crop (I actually thought I used it more often, but the Lightroom numbers don’t lie), so a 24mm should be wide enough for me.

The TS-E and Zeiss lenses look great, but a bit too expensive (maybe the next upgrade).

I actually use my 70-200 (f/4 L IS) for landscapes as well. It’s by far my favorite lens, but find it’s often just not wide enough. On FF it would be perfect.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: yorgasor on April 19, 2014, 11:28:30 AM
Whenever I go landscape, I carry my Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 and my Canon 70-200mm (with a 1.4x extender thrown in, just in case).  I tend to either want to see everything, or things far away.  The 70-200 is excellent for stitching together a few photos for a panorama.  Here's a couple sample shots from my trip to Utah in February:

Stitched Panorama:
 (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5496/12494469443_e66452f26b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/k36qsX)PotashCanyonPanorama2 (https://flic.kr/p/k36qsX) by yorgasor (https://www.flickr.com/people/98400159@N08/), on Flickr

Zeiss 21mm
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2859/12345013255_5eef41fc8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/jNTqm8)Utah Valley Car Lights (https://flic.kr/p/jNTqm8) by yorgasor (https://www.flickr.com/people/98400159@N08/), on Flickr

Just remember to turn of the !#@$ IS when taking shots if your 70-200 has IS.  I ruined a spectacular night panorama because I didn't notice the jitter when previewing the photo on the back of the camera :(
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Ruined on April 19, 2014, 01:51:55 PM
My current gear is still doing fine, but the time has come to think about an upgrade. I’m planning to:

a) Move to Full Frame (ditching the “0” on my 60D and going for a 6D);
b) Switch to primes (which I tend to use as “2-way” prime anyway).

The choice for a 6D is mainly a financial one, but for most of my photography (mainly landscapes) it will do just as well as a 5DmkIII. A possible drawback of the 6D is the wildlife shots, but I think I would actually prefer a 70D (or maybe 7DmkII) over a 5DmkIII because of the higher fps and crop factor.

I’ll keep my L zooms (70-200 f/4 and 100-400) for now, but the EF-S lenses need to go. For my new prime lenses it’s hard not to get excited about the new Sigma ART lenses, but:

I’m shooting landscapes most of the time. As such, I tend to use apertures from f/4 and upward.
When comparing the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART to a more moderate priced Canon 35mm f/2 IS, the latter actually isn’t doing that bad:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=824&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=4&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)

There is no Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART yet (thus an unfair comparison), but the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS seems to be dropping the ball a bit:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=3&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)
The Sigma 24mm f/1.4 ART is rumored to be heavier and more expensive as the 35mm Art.

Although the mentioned Canon IS Prime lenses are not as good wide open, they have some clear advantages:
  • They are much smaller and lighter (the combined weight of the 24mm and 35mm Canons is actually less than a single Sigma 35mm ART, a big bonus when hiking);
  • They are (much) cheaper (the possible savings could bring a 5DmkIII in reach, but likely be spend on more glass);
  • They offer IS (which I don’t care about, but could be good for filming).

Am I missing something, or is this actually a viable option? Any good experiences using these Canon lenses for landscapes?

OP: You are making a common mistake when looking at lenses - looking at only one optical benchmark (sharpness).

You stated you wish to photograph landscapes.  Odds are, those landscapes will have a lot of light.  They might even have the sun in the picture!  Did you investigate lens flare, which will then be your biggest enemy?  Using the same site's lens flare test, we can see that the Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS that you were skeptical above is actually the best in terms of lack of lens flare at smaller apertures.

Which is another point, your landscape shots will generally be f/8-f/16.  The Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS while not the sharpest of all at f/2.8 is just as sharp if not sharper at f/8-f/16.

Going back to lens flare,
The Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS has significantly less lens flare than the below lenses:
* Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L
* Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II

Proof:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=787&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=787&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=5)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=480&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=7 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=480&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=7)

This is largely due to the much smaller front element on the 24mm f/2.8 IS.


And the Sigma 35mm f/1.4 ART is an utter mess in terms of lens flare so I wouldn't count on the 24mm:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=7 (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Flare.aspx?Lens=788&Camera=453&FLI=0&API=5&LensComp=829&CameraComp=453&FLIComp=0&APIComp=7)


So, sometimes the cheaper option is actually the better option.

If not obvious already, I recommend the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS for landscape work, due to its classic 24mm landscape focal length, very low lens flare and high sharpness at typical landscape apertures.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 19, 2014, 03:56:52 PM
OP: You are making a common mistake when looking at lenses - looking at only one optical benchmark (sharpness).

You stated you wish to photograph landscapes.  Odds are, those landscapes will have a lot of light.  They might even have the sun in the picture!  Did you investigate lens flare, which will then be your biggest enemy?  Using the same site's lens flare test, we can see that the Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS that you were skeptical above is actually the best in terms of lack of lens flare at smaller apertures.

Which is another point, your landscape shots will generally be f/8-f/16.  The Canon EF 24mm f/2.8 IS while not the sharpest of all at f/2.8 is just as sharp if not sharper at f/8-f/16.

A very good point; the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS is looking better and better.

Additional bonus: bringing this lens, a 35mm f/2.8 IS and a 6D on a hiking trip would actually save a little weight compared to a 60D and a 17-55.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: StudentOfLight on April 19, 2014, 04:33:44 PM
Ultra-Wide angle shots can look weird depending on what objects are in the foreground. Do you have a Pan head? You could use any standard focal length on a pan head, even the 40mm pancake.

Samyang has some cheaper manual focus offerings like the 14mm f/2.8, which is sharp but heavily distorted. Samyang also has the 24mm f/1.4 which many rave about. I haven't used it myself but it is worth looking into. Apparently the 24mm has no coma wide open which is ideal for astrophotography.

Shift+Stitch with the TS-E 24mm-II will give you an effective sensor area of 48x36mm on full frame. With the 6D shift-stitched pictures will give you an image of about 40Mpx with excellent corner to corner IQ.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: ray5 on April 19, 2014, 08:02:32 PM
Whenever I go landscape, I carry my Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 and my Canon 70-200mm (with a 1.4x extender thrown in, just in case).  I tend to either want to see everything, or things far away.  The 70-200 is excellent for stitching together a few photos for a panorama.  Here's a couple sample shots from my trip to Utah in February:

Stitched Panorama:
 (https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5496/12494469443_e66452f26b_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/k36qsX)PotashCanyonPanorama2 (https://flic.kr/p/k36qsX) by yorgasor (https://www.flickr.com/people/98400159@N08/), on Flickr

Zeiss 21mm
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2859/12345013255_5eef41fc8d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/jNTqm8)Utah Valley Car Lights (https://flic.kr/p/jNTqm8) by yorgasor (https://www.flickr.com/people/98400159@N08/), on Flickr

Just remember to turn of the !#@$ IS when taking shots if your 70-200 has IS.  I ruined a spectacular night panorama because I didn't notice the jitter when previewing the photo on the back of the camera :(

Stunning! Sent you a PM.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: CarlTN on April 20, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
Apparently the 24mm has no coma wide open which is ideal for astrophotography.

First I've seen of that.  I thought some of the tests I saw, showed significant coma wide open.  Also it suffers from quality control issues, many are decentered.  Also it's got fairly severe barrel distortion of 3%, not good for stitching or architecture.  Also, wide open, the vignetting is at 3 stops.  This is easily the most severe vignetting of any 24mm lens in current production.  Also, it's fully manual, with manual aperture, does not record aperture or focus info in exif data.  That means for shooting landscape at closed down aperture, it will either give a very dark view through the viewfinder when manually focusing, or else you would have to focus with the aperture open wider, and hope for the best once you close it down.  Also, this test shows moderate field curvature.

http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/769-samyang24f14eosff?start=2 (http://www.photozone.de/canon_eos_ff/769-samyang24f14eosff?start=2)

And I quote:

"However, the contrast is a bit soft at these settings (f/1.4 to f/2) so the image quality is not perceived as very sharp (sharp = high resolution + high contrast). There's a significant boost in quality at f/2.8."

That does not bode well for astrophotography.  Not saying it's not possible, but it does not look like the best choice at all to me.  As for flare, according to Photozone, there is significant flare and ghosting in the 24mm Samyang.

"Admittedly, the 24mm f/1.4 suffers from slightly lower contrast at large apertures but the resolution is already pretty high here and that's including the difficult outer image regions. The results get more snappy at f/2.8 and beyond the lens is very sharp indeed. Typical for such lenses, the Samyang produces a heavy amount of vignetting at large aperture settings so it's advisable to correct the issue during post-processing or by stopping down to at least f/4. The barrel distortion is a bit stronger than average albeit not extreme. While we didn't really test the quality of the bokeh formally this time, the field results look pretty good - normally ultra-wide lenses are somewhat on the rough side here. There is some visible bokeh fringing at large apertures but this is, again, nothing out of the ordinary. The weakest aspect of the lens is possibly its rather limited protection against back light, especially sided light. We have seen some higher than average glare and ghostings so you should always mount the supplied lens hood in difficult scenes although this will not always help, of course."

Given the presence of field curvature, that usually goes hand in hand with periphery coma (and/or astigmatism) at infinity focus.  This is why I bought the Sigma 24mm instead.  Overall, I feel it's a better lens, autofocuses, yet costs less when new than the Samyang!  It has far lower barrel distortion, too, as well as far less vignetting at its widest f/1.8.  Also it doesn't seem to be subject to such low production standards as the Korean lens.  My copy is very well centered, at least.  Made in Japan should still mean something.  It doesn't always, I admit.  And also, yes, it does have some coma in the outer 50% of the image.  Has almost zero coma in the inner 50%, though, even at f/1.8.  It's mostly gone in the periphery by f/4.5, as well.

http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/756-sigmaex2418fx (http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/756-sigmaex2418fx)

Wide open, especially in this test, the border and corner do look soft.  But they don't appear this soft in real world use to me, especially for daytime shots on my 6D.  Keep in mind this test is on a Nikon D3x, 24 megapixels, more than any Canon body (so far...thus the CA appears larger than it would on a Canon.).  Their MTF50 test at F/8 is found to be 3558 center, 2774 border, and 2709 extreme (corner).  That is not too shabby on a D3x.  The above test of the Samyang, was on a 21 MP 5D2.  F/9 is the real sweet spot in my experience with the lens, which is a typical setting for much of landscape shooting.  They admittedly conclude it's not a good choice for landscape.  I do admit it's a better choice for wide angle portraiture (and macro), obviously, especially since that appears to be what it was designed for.  But it definitely can work for landscape on a 6D.  On a D800?  Definitely not.

Like I said, it was an easy choice for me, between this lens and the Samyang 24mm.  But if the choice (and the funds exist for it) is between a Sigma 35mm Art, obviously there is hardly any comparison (other than the low barrel distortion).  At around 24mm, the only real choices for Canon, for the least optical compromise, are the Canon T/S, or the Zeiss Distagon (as I mentioned above).  And the Zeiss would really be better served on a D800.  However, the D800 might actually out resolve the Zeiss...which is why hopefully they will make an "Otus" wide angle lens at some point.  When they do, that's what every landscaper will go after if they can.

I'll admit the Canon 24mm f/2.8 IS appears to be a good choice too, however it costs a smidge more when new (and almost double what I'm offering my used Sigma for).  And sometimes you want a faster aperture than f/2.8...or the ability to shoot macro wide angles.  Image stabilization is a very nice feature, but if you take time with your landscapes and use a tripod, the IS is useless there.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: timmy_650 on April 20, 2014, 03:04:17 AM
Have you thought about the New sigma 24-105mm F/4 OS? It is better than the canon at 24mm and that is where you shoot most. The week spot is the 105mm but i thought you said you had a 70-200.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 20, 2014, 05:01:17 AM
The Sigma 24-105 ART lens looks like a nice lens as well, but backed up with some very good arguments in this thread the primes route feels better to me.
The Sigma 24-105 is quite heavy and the 82mm would require new CPL and ND filters as well.

Note: I don’t mind lugging around heavy equipment. If I just go shooting I have close to 10kg of gear already. I mainly want to option to go “light” when I go trekking.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Sporgon on April 20, 2014, 05:27:55 AM
The trio of IS primes are all excellent for landscape. They offer virtually the best across the frame sharpness with IS for hand holding late evening / early morning shots with small apertures and low ISO.

However the 24-70 f4 IS is also excellent, much better than the early reviews gave it credit for. I have no idea why this happened; the 70-300L also suffered in the same way.

If you want lighter, cheaper ( individually ), smaller then the primes are the way to go although the 24-70 IS is noticeably smaller than the 24-105L in actual use, and goes well on the 6D.

Here are a couple of landscape shots taken on the 24-70 f4 IS. If you want to see a large size have a look on my website. 
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 20, 2014, 05:47:41 AM
The trio of IS primes are all excellent for landscape. They offer virtually the best across the frame sharpness with IS for hand holding late evening / early morning shots with small apertures and low ISO.

However the 24-70 f4 IS is also excellent, much better than the early reviews gave it credit for. I have no idea why this happened; the 70-300L also suffered in the same way.

If you want lighter, cheaper ( individually ), smaller then the primes are the way to go although the 24-70 IS is noticeably smaller than the 24-105L in actual use, and goes well on the 6D.

Here are a couple of landscape shots taken on the 24-70 f4 IS. If you want to see a large size have a look on my website.

Gorgeous shots…
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: docsmith on April 20, 2014, 06:03:54 AM
All the data on the internet is an interesting thing.  Stare at it too long and you'll lose perspective and go blind.  It allows you to evaluate subtle differences in lenses beyond the point that you would actually be able to perceive.  Also, much of the available data is based upon a single copy of a lens when it is well established that there is significant copy variation.  I am not saying you don't learn something and that it isn't valuable, but I think you need to evaluate charts with some perspective.

My recommendation is that you start to think in broader terms such as "unacceptable," "acceptable," "good," "very good," "extremely good," and "elite."  Each of these is in the eye of the beholder, but I want to emphasize that evaluating internet data tends to push everyone to the "elite" lenses when many amateurs would be very happy once you get past good (some with acceptable).

I do this because earlier you dismissed what is likely the perfect lens for you.  You say that you want a landscape lens and are on a budget....the EF 25-105 f/4 is absolutely the best bargain "L" lens right now.  But it in your kit when you get your 6D and wait for a deal that pops up and you can get it for $400-$600.  That is a steal.  Practically speaking, the lens is good at f/4 (all this talk of it being "soft" is highly overrated IMO), but it is very good to extremely good from f/5.6-f/8.  It is about as good as any lens once diffraction kits in (which is still very good to extremely good) from f/8-f/16.  It is a great landscape lens for the budget.  Are there better out there, yes, absolutely.  The charts show it and several lenses are even perceivably better.  But it is good enough for most amateurs.

So, my recommendation would be to pick up the EF 24-105 in a kit, or maybe the EF 24-70 f/4 IS in a kit (depending on price) and then pick up a prime such as the Sigma 35A, or one of Canon's trilogy of 24 f/2.8, 28 f/2.8, or 35 f/2 for lower light photography.  If you want astrophotography, that does change things.  The value lens you can get is the Samyang/Rokinon 14 f/2.8 UMC.  You can get by with f/2.8 at 24 mm (I've seen great shots even at f/4), but typically need f/2, by 21 mm or 14 mm, you can increase your shutter speed enough that you can get great shots with f/2.8.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: docsmith on April 20, 2014, 06:07:09 AM
...not sure why, but this was a double post....so I removed it.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scottburgess on April 20, 2014, 12:22:22 PM
I too shoot landscapes, and though the lens is more expensive I suggest you take a long look at the 24mm TS-E (mark II) given that you do a lot of work in this area.  What you gain is not only an incredibly sharp lens, but tremendous creative possibilities. 

If you want to know more before you buy, I recommend the following ebook:
http://www.oopoomoo.com/ebook/the-tilt-shift-lens/ (http://www.oopoomoo.com/ebook/the-tilt-shift-lens/)

I bought this book while making essentially the same decision as you.  This book illustrates the range of things one can do with a tilt-shift, and provides work-flow information for obtaining the most from this lens.  It is well organized and written.  Kudos to Darwin and Samantha for putting this together.

Hope this helps a bit.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Mr Bean on April 20, 2014, 05:56:00 PM
My 2 cents worth....
As others have mentioned, from a landscape perspective, considering IS or AF isn't really the main issue, the Canon 24mm TS would be an excellent choice, with its great sharpness and ability to T/S. Closely followed by the Zeiss 21mm. I've rented the Zeiss 21mm before I bought the Zeiss 15mm and the 21mm had slightly better sharpness and contrast than the 15mm (I bought the 15mm mainly for astro/full sky shots). Plus, the Zeiss lenses have a hard infinity stop, which makes night shots really easy :)

As a "pan and stitch" lens, the 40mm pancake is superb when stopped to f4-5.6. A really under rated lens IMHO.

At the moment, my current "go to" lenses in my kit for landscape are the 40mm pancake (and stitch) or the Canon 24mm f1.4 II, which isn't the sharpest lens (wide open), but, stopped down, it does have a beaut contrast/colour about it.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: eml58 on April 20, 2014, 08:01:07 PM
My own experience suggests the following Lenses, I can recommend them on the Basis I own them & use them.

Canon 17f/4 TSE II
Canon 24f/3.5 TSE II
Zeiss 21f/2.8 Distagon
Zeiss 15f/2.8 Distagon

All are Manual Focus, the TSE's give some latitude if you want to Photograph Architecture, if I'm heading off to do Landscape, these are the Lenses I throw in Bag.

Other Lenses I have & use for Landscape that are very good

Canon 24f/1.4 II (Very good for Landscape, not good for Night time star Imaging, quite bad Purple Fringing & Coma, I agree with CarlTN on this, I don't think the issue is relevant to my own Lens, it's an issue with the 24f1.4 II generally, but, not an issue if night time Imaging is not in your bag of tricks) The 24f/1.4 is also an excellent Underwater Lens (when used in a Housing of course  ::)  )

Canon 8-15f/4 @ 15 (also excellent underwater Lens, Housing rule applies)
Sigma 35f/1.4 Art
Canon 35f/1.4 (not quite as sharp as the Sigma Art 35 (in my experience), but slightly better Bokah)
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: jd7 on April 20, 2014, 09:28:37 PM
The trio of IS primes are all excellent for landscape. They offer virtually the best across the frame sharpness with IS for hand holding late evening / early morning shots with small apertures and low ISO.

However the 24-70 f4 IS is also excellent, much better than the early reviews gave it credit for. I have no idea why this happened; the 70-300L also suffered in the same way.

If you want lighter, cheaper ( individually ), smaller then the primes are the way to go although the 24-70 IS is noticeably smaller than the 24-105L in actual use, and goes well on the 6D.

Here are a couple of landscape shots taken on the 24-70 f4 IS. If you want to see a large size have a look on my website.

Gorgeous shots…

+1 about those shots.

Interesting to see Sporgon and a few others saying very good things about the 24-70 f/4 (which, as Sporgon said, is inconsistent with most of the reviews out there).  And the macro mode on it sounds like it could be fun too, even if the working distance is short.  I think I might have to take a closer look at the 24-70 f/4 one of these days.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 21, 2014, 06:31:09 AM
To recapitulate some of the mentioned options:

First the Zoom lens options:
Canon 6D +  Canon EF 24-105 f/4L
Canon 6D +  Canon EF 24-70 f/4L
Canon 6D +  Sigma 24-105 f/4 ART

The Canon EF 24-70 f/4 kit is the clear winner for me in this comparison; being only a little more expensive as the 24-105 (The Sigma losing out on weight and cost).

Next the Prime lens options:
Canon 6D +  Canon EF 24 f/2.8 IS + Canon EF 35 f/2 IS
Canon 6D +  Canon TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II + Canon EF 35 f/2 IS
Canon 6D +  Zeiss ZE Distagon T* 21mm f/2.8 + Sigma 35 f/1.4 ART

Anything over €3000 ($4200) is too much for me, leaving only the Canon IS primes option.

The Canon EF 24-70 f/4 L looks like the most flexible option, see if I can take one for a test drive…
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Mr_Canuck on April 22, 2014, 05:58:34 PM
Whenever I go landscape, I carry my Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 and my Canon 70-200mm (with a 1.4x extender thrown in, just in case).  I tend to either want to see everything, or things far away.  The 70-200 is excellent for stitching together a few photos for a panorama.

I would agree. And the more I've heard or read from pro landscape photographers, they tend towards wide angle or telephoto and rarely the middle focal lengths in order to capture unique perspective on the landscapes they see. I've gone with a Voigtlander 20mm f/3.5 and a 70-200/f4is. A big criteria for me is portability.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Snodge on April 22, 2014, 11:22:42 PM
Like Mr_Canuck I also have a Voigtlander 20mm manual focus lens, which is great for weight and seems to be sharp enough, and having hyperfocal distance markings is something that I definitely appreciate on this lens.

If you want very wide, the Samyang 14mm lens could be worth considering - I say considering, as I don't have one myself, so cannot recommend - however it appears to be particularly good for night shots with stars due to very low coma, and the shots in the lens gallery for it seem to more than justify its very low price...
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: CarlTN on April 24, 2014, 08:04:57 PM
My 2 cents worth....
As others have mentioned, from a landscape perspective, considering IS or AF isn't really the main issue, the Canon 24mm TS would be an excellent choice, with its great sharpness and ability to T/S. Closely followed by the Zeiss 21mm. I've rented the Zeiss 21mm before I bought the Zeiss 15mm and the 21mm had slightly better sharpness and contrast than the 15mm (I bought the 15mm mainly for astro/full sky shots). Plus, the Zeiss lenses have a hard infinity stop, which makes night shots really easy :)

As a "pan and stitch" lens, the 40mm pancake is superb when stopped to f4-5.6. A really under rated lens IMHO.

At the moment, my current "go to" lenses in my kit for landscape are the 40mm pancake (and stitch) or the Canon 24mm f1.4 II, which isn't the sharpest lens (wide open), but, stopped down, it does have a beaut contrast/colour about it.

I agree, although the Zeiss 21mm is really still the best overall lens for day or night wide angle shots (at least of nature).  I would not rank the T/S 24mm higher than it, at least from what I have read, and given its slower aperture.  However, if you ever do any sort of architectural wide angle, then it makes more sense to rank the T/S above the Zeiss.  Also, your experience confirms what I've seen online as well...that the Zeiss 15mm is noticeably softer than the Zeiss 21mm.  The 15mm actually also appears softer than the cheap 14mm Rokinon (at wide aperture).  It just also has better color and contrast than the Rokinon.  As Zeiss lenses go, the 15mm appears to be a poorer value than other Zeiss offerings, since it is not the sharpest EF-mount lens in the world at or around that focal length, yet still costs around $3000.  At least with the new Otus 55mm, it still clearly is the sharpest of all lenses around its focal length, so the price is more justified, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scottburgess on April 24, 2014, 08:52:21 PM
Apparently the 24mm has no coma wide open which is ideal for astrophotography.

First I've seen of that.  I thought some of the tests I saw, showed significant coma wide open. 

There are folks out there who "highly recommend" the lens for that purpose.  eg: http://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/ (http://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/)

The design includes two aspheric elements which could reduce coma in a decent lens design--but I have no direct experience with the lens or any other Samyang products.  I don't own one, and probably wouldn't buy one for myself since other known issues would eliminate it from consideration relative to what I like to do.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: CarlTN on April 25, 2014, 12:47:28 AM
Apparently the 24mm has no coma wide open which is ideal for astrophotography.

First I've seen of that.  I thought some of the tests I saw, showed significant coma wide open. 

There are folks out there who "highly recommend" the lens for that purpose.  eg: http://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/ (http://www.lonelyspeck.com/lenses-for-milky-way-photography/)

The design includes two aspheric elements which could reduce coma in a decent lens design--but I have no direct experience with the lens or any other Samyang products.  I don't own one, and probably wouldn't buy one for myself since other known issues would eliminate it from consideration relative to what I like to do.

Fair point.  I've only owned one Rokinon lens so far, the 85mm f/1.4.  It held its value very well on the used market, and I lost very little when I sold it.  But it definitely did not have good contrast.  The resolution was ok, and the CA was not too bad.  Certainly not a bad value for money (because it was so inexpensive).  But it was a manual focus / aperture, so it was cumbersome to use...especially since I was only using the standard focusing screen, and this focal length is especially demanding of good manual focus technique, if the lens is manual.  I'm still considering trying the 14mm f/2.8, though.  From what I have seen, it might have the best overall image quality of all the Rokinon focal lengths.  Both the 14mm and the 85mm, cost around half what their 24mm f/1.4 sells for, though, so to me it seems like a poor value...especially given photozone's review.  Not saying people can't take good images with it, though.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 26, 2014, 08:46:13 AM
Looks like I’ve made my decision: It’s going to be the Canon 6D kit with the 24-70 f/4 L lens, just a matter of waiting on a good deal (Canon Cash-back, a good shop discount or both).

The 24-70 f/4 should be able to produce the results I’m after, but I’ll put aside the money I save so I can always “upgrade” to some prime lenses when needed (with or without selling off the 24-70 f/4).

Maybe in the long term save enough to get some Zeiss glass, but meanwhile the FF upgrade should keep me satisfied.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Sporgon on April 26, 2014, 09:12:33 AM
Looks like I’ve made my decision: It’s going to be the Canon 6D kit with the 24-70 f/4 L lens, just a matter of waiting on a good deal (Canon Cash-back, a good shop discount or both).

The 24-70 f/4 should be able to produce the results I’m after, but I’ll put aside the money I save so I can always “upgrade” to some prime lenses when needed (with or without selling off the 24-70 f/4).

Maybe in the long term save enough to get some Zeiss glass, but meanwhile the FF upgrade should keep me satisfied.

Good choice; we bought a 6D kit with 24-70 IS and the two go really well together. With this lens I think you'll find that any future purchase of a prime in the same focal length range would be for faster aperture.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on April 26, 2014, 02:21:00 PM
One major advantage of the 24-70 f/4 L: it has the same filter diameter as my EF-S 17-55 (both 77 mm).

This means I can keep using my filters (for instance B+W XS-Pro Pola and Hoya NDX400) without using step-up rings.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scottburgess on April 26, 2014, 06:53:54 PM
This means I can keep using my filters (for instance B+W XS-Pro Pola and Hoya NDX400) without using step-up rings.
I used to worry about standardizing on a couple ring sizes before I switched to Cokin P style.  That change saved a lot of dough.

Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: CarlTN on May 01, 2014, 03:57:59 AM
One major advantage of the 24-70 f/4 L: it has the same filter diameter as my EF-S 17-55 (both 77 mm).

This means I can keep using my filters (for instance B+W XS-Pro Pola and Hoya NDX400) without using step-up rings.

The 24-105L also uses 77mm filters, and is not that far behind the 24-70 in image quality...also costs less and gives more reach at the long end.
Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: Tanispyre on May 02, 2014, 10:00:31 AM
If the question is whether IS is useful for landscapes, the I would have to answer yes.  Now obviously the best solution is to us a tripod and carefully set everything up, but in reality it is often the case that you do not have time to do that.

Having IS on my wide angle lens means that I can often hand hold exposures for 1/2 a second or longer allowing me to get smooth waterfalls and good depth of field at low ISOs.  My work often takes me into the field, and I have a walking stick I mounted a tripod mount on that I use as a Monopod.  Using IS and a monopod I am consistently getting good shots at 2 seconds exposure.

Title: Re: Canon IS Primes for landscapes?
Post by: scaptic on May 13, 2014, 09:33:09 AM
The new EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM in addition to the 24-70 f/4L could be nice as well. Can’t wait for the reviews…

Combined with my 70-200 f/4L IS, it could complete a nice set of f/4L IS lenses.