canon rumors FORUM

Technique and Advice => Videography Technique => Topic started by: CanonFanBoy on October 28, 2017, 12:25:49 PM

Title: Image stabilization and video
Post by: CanonFanBoy on October 28, 2017, 12:25:49 PM
Good morning!

Straight to the question: How is video benefitted by shooting with an IS lens? Obviously it must help, but I am not sure why if the camera might be moving around a lot.

I've got a new grandson and will be moving to Texas in the spring. In the mean time I'll be going for Christmas. We have a video camera. Nothing fancy. However, I'd like to take some video with my 5D Mark III at Christmas. The only lenses I have with IS are the 70-200 II, and the Tamron 15-30. The 70-200 will be too long for the inside of an apartment. The Tamron might be ok at the long end (30mm). Could it be there is a hole in my lens lineup when it comes to video?

I've never shot video with the 5D III. Only stills. The other lenses I could use are the 35mm f/1.4L II and the 24-70 f/2.8L II. I think the 135mm f/2L is probably too long in an apartment.

I do not anticipate the camera being on a tripod unless I get one of those mini-tripods. Most shots would be from a low angle when the child is on the floor.

All my gear is in Texas already, so I can't try things out here.

Just wondering how IS helps vs non-IS for video. If the camera is off tripod, is IS really a help?

Thanks guys. Have a wonderful weekend.
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: ajfotofilmagem on October 28, 2017, 02:01:52 PM
As you may know, video is a sequence of photos at a rate of 30 per second, and these pictures are typically shot with 1/60 shutter speed.

But then, why not use 1/125 shutter or even 1/250? This can be great when watching in slow motion, but when watched at normal speed, it would make the movement of objects less fluid and looking artificial.

But in the past there was no image stabilizer, and the videos were not very shaky? Well, at that time the video cameras were half a meter in size and more than 5 kilograms in weight and were supported on the SHOULDER. The more weight, the greater the inertia and therefore the greater the stability of the camera.

I would never recommend anyone to record video with DSLR without a shoulder mount and without Image Stabiliser lenses. At least one of the two is fundamental.

In short, a DSLR camera has much bigger amplitude of motion than an real video camera, and even Image Stabiliser alone can not solve the problem.
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: CanonFanBoy on October 28, 2017, 02:44:01 PM
As you may know, video is a sequence of photos at a rate of 30 per second, and these pictures are typically shot with 1/60 shutter speed.

But then, why not use 1/125 shutter or even 1/250? This can be great when watching in slow motion, but when watched at normal speed, it would make the movement of objects less fluid and looking artificial.

But in the past there was no image stabilizer, and the videos were not very shaky? Well, at that time the video cameras were half a meter in size and more than 5 kilograms in weight and were supported on the SHOULDER. The more weight, the greater the inertia and therefore the greater the stability of the camera.

I would never recommend anyone to record video with DSLR without a shoulder mount and without Image Stabiliser lenses. At least one of the two is fundamental.

In short, a DSLR camera has much bigger amplitude of motion than an real video camera, and even Image Stabiliser alone can not solve the problem.

Thank you. I believe that is exactly what I wanted to know. Appreciate it. 24-70 f/4L IS?
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: ajfotofilmagem on October 28, 2017, 03:42:26 PM
Yes, the 24-70mm F4 IS, is a great option for video in full frame cameras.
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: Halfrack on October 28, 2017, 03:51:04 PM
Congrats on the grandson, is he your first grandchild?  How old will he be this holiday?  Getting low is going to be key, how is your mobility holding the camera 1' off the ground?  So the biggest issue you may not think of is that the 5D3 doesn't have the same level of video autofocus as the newer bodies - the dual pixel auto focus really makes it a lot easier.  How mobile is the kiddo?

Here's what I would focus on:

- What are you sitting on when filming?  This is where the mobility question comes into force - like if crawling is the current best, or is it a game of chase with a toddler?  I'd look into a hydraulic stool on wheels maybe something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OWGBNR2/ (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OWGBNR2/) That way you can be more level with him, and slide around without having to constantly get up and down.

- How are you holding the camera?  How you place your hands and balance the rig really matters.  The one downside to your 5D mk3 is the screen doesn't articulate so you can shoot lower.  Doing something like a really short tripod or even a monopod would help.  Or an old school potato masher flash gun style plate that lets you grip the camera in a more comfortable angle.  Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Camera-Bracket-Standard-Camcorder/dp/B01CMV2HUA/ (https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Camera-Bracket-Standard-Camcorder/dp/B01CMV2HUA/) or even this https://www.amazon.com/Zeadio-Stabilizing-Stabilizer-Panasonic-Camcorder/dp/B00LKK99QA/ (https://www.amazon.com/Zeadio-Stabilizing-Stabilizer-Panasonic-Camcorder/dp/B00LKK99QA/)

- Mic setup?  A basic low end mic may not seem like much, but pointing it in the right direction & having a bit of control really makes a video.  Honestly, audio is almost more important than video, as even with shake and blurry images, hearing words and such clearly can be more important.  Something basic like https://www.amazon.com/TAKSTAR-SGC-598-Interview-Microphone-Camcorder/dp/B00E58AA0I/ (https://www.amazon.com/TAKSTAR-SGC-598-Interview-Microphone-Camcorder/dp/B00E58AA0I/)

Shoot at f8 or even f11, set your focus & don't worry about the ISO.  You're there to experience & enjoy, the less you worry about settings, the better.
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: CanonFanBoy on October 28, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
Congrats on the grandson, is he your first grandchild?  How old will he be this holiday?  Getting low is going to be key, how is your mobility holding the camera 1' off the ground?  So the biggest issue you may not think of is that the 5D3 doesn't have the same level of video autofocus as the newer bodies - the dual pixel auto focus really makes it a lot easier.  How mobile is the kiddo?

Here's what I would focus on:

- What are you sitting on when filming?  This is where the mobility question comes into force - like if crawling is the current best, or is it a game of chase with a toddler?  I'd look into a hydraulic stool on wheels maybe something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OWGBNR2/ (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OWGBNR2/) That way you can be more level with him, and slide around without having to constantly get up and down.

- How are you holding the camera?  How you place your hands and balance the rig really matters.  The one downside to your 5D mk3 is the screen doesn't articulate so you can shoot lower.  Doing something like a really short tripod or even a monopod would help.  Or an old school potato masher flash gun style plate that lets you grip the camera in a more comfortable angle.  Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Camera-Bracket-Standard-Camcorder/dp/B01CMV2HUA/ (https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Camera-Bracket-Standard-Camcorder/dp/B01CMV2HUA/) or even this https://www.amazon.com/Zeadio-Stabilizing-Stabilizer-Panasonic-Camcorder/dp/B00LKK99QA/ (https://www.amazon.com/Zeadio-Stabilizing-Stabilizer-Panasonic-Camcorder/dp/B00LKK99QA/)

- Mic setup?  A basic low end mic may not seem like much, but pointing it in the right direction & having a bit of control really makes a video.  Honestly, audio is almost more important than video, as even with shake and blurry images, hearing words and such clearly can be more important.  Something basic like https://www.amazon.com/TAKSTAR-SGC-598-Interview-Microphone-Camcorder/dp/B00E58AA0I/ (https://www.amazon.com/TAKSTAR-SGC-598-Interview-Microphone-Camcorder/dp/B00E58AA0I/)

Shoot at f8 or even f11, set your focus & don't worry about the ISO.  You're there to experience & enjoy, the less you worry about settings, the better.

Yes, he's the first and will be nearly 8 months by Christmas. Getting down low won't be a problem, though I sure do wish I had kept my 70D now.

Thought about getting a Rode shotgun mic for the audio. I think it might do the trick.

Also thinking about this creeper to be low and mobile. I guess a skaeboard would do the trick too. https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-94032-Large-Wheel-Creeper/dp/B000I1H19O/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1509236190&sr=8-2-fkmr2&keywords=mechanics+creeper+urethane+wheels

 Thanks for the response. :)
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: Besisika on October 29, 2017, 12:20:56 PM
Good morning!

Straight to the question: How is video benefitted by shooting with an IS lens? Obviously it must help, but I am not sure why if the camera might be moving around a lot.

My opinion, on a 5D III the Tamron 15-30 will do just fine for in house video. It is 2.8 and has IS built in.
If I were you, I would get a mono pod with a video head instead, and if still have money left, yes a way to improve sound quality: baby's cry and parents talking about him are priceless in kid's video.
The grandson is only 8 months old and he is not going to run all over the place; most of your shots will be static.
If you haven't enough experience in video shooting then you better practice a lot before actually shooting and I would focus more my energy on that than on gear.
- white balance; for video you have to have it right before shooting. In house, it is not that obvious especially if you have windows. Dialing Kelvin helps a lot.
- crop: almost non-existent in video (in particular for a non 4K gear).
- rule of 3rd: sounds very basic but crucial since you can't crop to your liking.
- camera angle: the same scene looks different from different angles and shoot the same thing from different angles and you choose what you need later.
- movement: avoid fast and quick movement, in fact use only and only motivated movement (do a search on Youtube what is it and anticipate when to use it). The 15-30 is a zoom lens and will allow you to push in and pull out nicely (but always slowly), while the video head will allow you to pan and tilt when wanting to focus your viewer's attn to someone else.
If you can record the sound on a separate device (recorder, cellphone, ...) then you can lay on top of it different footage in post. The way I like it most is to record continuously with my H4N, then I chose the most important ones as the foundation of my video, then I put on top of it the bad quality sound from my camera in a form of  sound on sound with a lower volume.
The IS on the lens should be on when camera is on a mono pod, in particular if you have to use longer lenses like 70-200. Nevertheless, your movement should be minimal, very slow and for a specific purpose. You are not shooting a rap video.
Title: Re: Image stabilization and video
Post by: hne on October 29, 2017, 02:58:27 PM
If the 18-35/1.8 had a built in image stabilizer I would not sell it. It is pretty much the perfect zoom range for video.

For handheld video, IS is more or less a necessity.

For a moving camera, you want a dolly, Steadicam or gimbal. I have barely used a DSLR for video since getting a gimbal for my GoPro.