canon rumors FORUM

Rumors => EOS Bodies => Topic started by: Canon Rumors on May 16, 2012, 08:43:00 AM

Title: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Canon Rumors on May 16, 2012, 08:43:00 AM
June is the month
Received information from various places that Canon will announce 2 new cameras in June (not including PowerShot updates).

One camera will be an EOS (650D) and the other will be a mirrorless entry.

I’m sure we’re going to start seeing more information in the coming weeks. I also expect Canon to spend a bit of marketing dollars on a mirrorless camera. Maybe we’ll see some teasers.

c

Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Strobe the globe on May 16, 2012, 08:45:22 AM
Wow - I'm very interested in the mirror-less entry. I wonder what it's video capability will be like.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: zim on May 16, 2012, 08:47:36 AM
Is there any chance the mirror-less camera will use EF lenses?

Hope it won't have video, save on costs (only joking honest  ;D)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Z on May 16, 2012, 08:50:01 AM
Is there any chance the mirror-less camera will use EF lenses?

Hope it won't have video, save on costs (only joking honest  ;D)

If it could, I would guess it would be via an adapter.  Unless it was a full-frame mirrorless, in which case most EF lenses are quite large for a mirrorless system...
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on May 16, 2012, 08:59:47 AM
I'd put the chances of the mirrorless entry of being even remotely interesting at less than 25%.  The Nikon at least has phase-detection AF which none of the others do, and none of the others have any interesting features at all.  My bet is that it's going to be way too big to replace compacts or smartphones for those that use those devices and way too weak in the performance area to replace dSLRs for those that use them.

But maybe Canon will surprise me.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Danack on May 16, 2012, 09:24:16 AM
My prediction as per the previous thread - the other camera will be basically a 5dmkIII with the mirror removed.

Same sensor and video capabilities, but with mirror, penta-prism, phase-detect autofocus and one of CF or SD card  removed (and maybe plastic rather than magnesium body) would produce a high quality camera at a low price which would not cannibalize 5D mkIII sales.

I'd prefer it if Canon released a high megapixel SLR camera - but the 5D is positioned at such a high price they seem to have deliberately left a hole in the market for a non-SLR high quality camera at much lower price.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dstppy on May 16, 2012, 09:25:51 AM
"It's like a million users cried out and were suddenly si . . . well, took to the discussion boards to gripe"

Haven't we had enough of the experimental stuff?  The new rebel will sell super well, which makes sense, but honestly, don't we DESERVE a refreshed 60D/7D?  Say, best features of both, and add DigicV . . . please?

No? Didn't think so.   ;D  If wishes were fishes the sea would be full :)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Ricku on May 16, 2012, 09:37:38 AM
Please oh pleaaaaaseee, let it be a full frame mirrorless!

Then Canon can just shut up and take my money.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Longkou on May 16, 2012, 09:45:18 AM
Canon, if clever can really do well in the mirrorless market. As stated elsewhere on the net, Canon users seem to be waiting for Canon to put something on the table before they dive into buying something from another camera brand.

I'm one of them and have been thinking about going for Fuji or Olympus but if Canon bring out something close to what has been speculated about im in!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: schlotz on May 16, 2012, 09:45:46 AM
So who has worked in the field with a mirrorless body.  Try doing very early morning and very late afternoon landscape work and see how pleased you'll be. The optical viewfinder lcd is the weak link here. Great idea but at the moment a "nitch" market at best.
Title: Looks like 8 or maybe even 10 new Canon cameras in 2012!
Post by: TW on May 16, 2012, 09:48:23 AM
Wow. Of course, that's not even including compacts. Let's see:

Full Frame: 1Dx, 5D3, 3D (hi Mpix), 9D (entry level), and a mirrrorless FF (we'll see).

Crop Frame: 7D2, 70D (or maybe an amalgam of the 2), 650D, a second Rebel (I dont follow the nomenclature), and a crop-frame mirrorless camera.

Well, hey;  it IS a rumor site, OK?  Still and all, I wouldn't bet against any of these, except maybe the FF mirrorless. Maybe someday, but I doubt it will show up this year.

What say ye?

*Oh, and that's not even including the Cinema Line of cameras! Double-Wow!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: rushmore77 on May 16, 2012, 09:54:14 AM
Don't get too excited.
It would take 6 more months to ship. 6 more months to "beta test" among the early adopters.
So we can pretty much ignore this kind of news these days.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Longkou on May 16, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
So who has worked in the field with a mirrorless body.  Try doing very early morning and very late afternoon landscape work and see how pleased you'll be. The optical viewfinder lcd is the weak link here. Great idea but at the moment a "nitch" market at best.

I think you miss the general jist of the rumor, its most likely going to be a compact system camera.

Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: MacDarcy on May 16, 2012, 11:18:03 AM
This is JUST the update i was waiting for! I wonder which one will get the FF treatment? Lol

Seriously tho, I've been waiting for the rebel update...and to hear that it might be released alongside Canon's first mirrorless camera. Hmm. Decisions decisions! Heh heh heh

Will have to wait and see what the features & price of each will be.

If either one turns out to be that low priced FF this site was talking about...that would be saweeeet. Not gonna hold my breath...but very drool worthy if true.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in. One more month baby! Not too long to wait. :-)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Ivar on May 16, 2012, 11:20:46 AM
Realistically thinking Canon will put the G1X sensor into a body which has interchangeable lenses and call it mirrorless.

They can't really challenge their upper end cameras, can they?
Title: Re: Looks like 8 or maybe even 10 new Canon cameras in 2012!
Post by: BXL on May 16, 2012, 11:22:15 AM

Full Frame: ...and a mirrrorless FF (we'll see).

A mirrorless entry is no mirrorless FF. I believe we will see a competitor of the Nikon 1 and like the Nikon, it will have a new bayonet mount.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dstppy on May 16, 2012, 11:35:06 AM
Don't get too excited.
It would take 6 more months to ship. 6 more months to "beta test" among the early adopters.
So we can pretty much ignore this kind of news these days.

 :D That's so cynical I'd +1 you hehe 

Sad, but true; this gave me a good chuckle.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: crazyrunner33 on May 16, 2012, 11:43:03 AM
It'd be nice if Canon will make a mirrorless that'll compete with the GH2(and GH3 that should be coming out soon).   A short flange distance would be a must along with an EF adapter that is either included or very reasonably priced.  I shoot with a few Canon DSLR cameras and a GH2 in order to be able to use FD lenses and as a small vacation camera.  For professional photography I never use it, it is like the 4th backup to me due to the lack of an optical view finders but it is very useful for video.
Title: Re: Looks like 8 or maybe even 10 new Canon cameras in 2012!
Post by: Aglet on May 16, 2012, 12:00:43 PM
A mirrorless entry is no mirrorless FF. I believe we will see a competitor of the Nikon 1 and like the Nikon, it will have a new bayonet mount.

Planet 5D interview with Chuck W recently had Chuck mention "EOS" and "mirrorless" in the same sentence.
Leads me to think Canon's new mirrorless may have a new flange mount but still be adapter compatible with current EOS mount lenses.  would make sense to allow people to use existing kit for the new system, especially with video.

OTOH, it could also use the existing mount system and they can intro some trendy new pancake primes and short zooms to go with it. APS-C size sensor makes most sense to start but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: nikkito on May 16, 2012, 12:01:36 PM
who cares about two cameras! CANON, release the 1D X !!!!!


 ;) :D ;D :P
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on May 16, 2012, 12:11:06 PM
Is there any chance the mirror-less camera will use EF lenses?

Hope it won't have video, save on costs (only joking honest  ;D )

That would defeat the purpose of mirrorless, a smaller camera.  EF lenses would require a deeper camera body.  Canon did patent a adapter for a smaller lens to EF a year ago.  I'd bet that patent will be used in a adapter.
Title: Re: Looks like 8 or maybe even 10 new Canon cameras in 2012!
Post by: CarebbianTraveler on May 16, 2012, 12:14:21 PM

Full Frame: ...and a mirrrorless FF (we'll see).

A mirrorless entry is no mirrorless FF. I believe we will see a competitor of the Nikon 1 and like the Nikon, it will have a new bayonet mount.

My guess too. A FF mirrorless would be too user friendly: you could use all your old lenses, evan the very old FD ones and it would be a direct competitor to the DSLRs. Canon doesn't want you to love your camera unless you have payed $10k for it ;-)

Ok, I've just found one "pro FF mirrorless" argument: It's the only gap in the lineup of the competitors (the M9 is too expensive and exotic for most people) and therefore the only chance for canon for some strong sells.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: moreorless on May 16, 2012, 12:40:03 PM
My guess is that the mirrorless will be somewhat similar to the G1X but with no OVF and maybe a less bulky body with fewer manual controls.

To me the most important area of the mirrorless market seems likely to be lenses, the NEX has a potential weakness here IMHO with the 18-55mm kit being fairly bulky and no reasponable small/cheap normal prime on offer. There was talk of a patent for a Canon mirrorless 18-55mm with a tiny back focus distance awhile back so I wouldnt be supprized to see a general effort to make it as small as possible.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: c.d.embrey on May 16, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
So who has worked in the field with a mirrorless body.  Try doing very early morning and very late afternoon landscape work and see how pleased you'll be. The optical viewfinder lcd is the weak link here. Great idea but at the moment a "nitch" market at best.

I've used the Sony NEX 5n.

It has a 1/4 20 thread in the bottom, just like a DSLR, so that you can use a tripod. The screen brightness can be cranked-up for use at the beach. It has an APS-C (1.5x) of equal to or better than Canon quality. Why do you think that this Sony or a Canon Mirrorless wouldn't work for landscapes ???  ???
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: facedodge on May 16, 2012, 02:15:14 PM
Seriously doubt either will be FF. If the mirrorless is APS-C, that would be good. If it is four thirds, that would be disappointing. If it is APS-H, that would be great. If it is FF, that would be groundbreaking.

EF mount via adapter would be the best you could hope for as well in that regards. Doesn't make sense to buy a slim camera you have to put long lenses on.

Canon's pancake lenses need to be sharp and fast. That will be the key (f/1.4 to f/1.8 primes and f/2.8 zooms)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on May 16, 2012, 02:15:46 PM
One camera will be an EOS (650D) and the other will be a mirrorless entry.

I guess that's where Canon's r&d budget is allocated: The high volume market, old-school dlsr+video refresh or upcoming mirrorless. And from a business standpoint, that's smart, since they satisfied the high end market for a while with the 1dx and 5d3, the latter with the different reactions to it concerning the d800 competition.

But I fear that the tradeoff is that the lower-volume and less-revenue market many people here are in (60d/7d successor(s), 5d2 successor entry-ff) will fall short in Canon's priorities :-(
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: pittguy578 on May 16, 2012, 02:41:26 PM
Wouldn't it technically be three cameras? The T4I..the 650D...and then some mirrorless camera?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: emag on May 16, 2012, 02:56:32 PM
Mirrorless:APS-C:EF-S
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: K-amps on May 16, 2012, 02:57:05 PM
While I am hoping for FF sensor and EF compatibility... you have to acknowledge the price will be north of $1k and it won't be a big seller, just niche. I think to keep it in the Rebel price range, it will need to be APS-C. But I do hope it can use EF lenses...

Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dtameling on May 16, 2012, 03:02:14 PM
So who has worked in the field with a mirrorless body.  Try doing very early morning and very late afternoon landscape work and see how pleased you'll be. The optical viewfinder lcd is the weak link here. Great idea but at the moment a "nitch" market at best.

When the MKIII came out and everybody started going right I went left and bought NEX-7. I'm hooked. I use it as as a light weight second camera opposite my 7D and for video. I just used it last weekend as a bonus camera to video a wedding ceremony with an old 135mm Tamron Adaptall on it...the footage is great. I'll be using it in a couple of weeks to shoot a bunch of sporting events over the course of two weeks and I expect the compact size and 10fps to give my 7D a run for it's money...especially since my old 400mm f/5.6 AI lens fits on the NEX and the 7D has nothing in my bag that comes close unless I rent.

For guys like me, a mirrorless needs to be prosumer or better. APS-C is a must, 10fps is a must, active EF lens compatibility (an adapter is fine) is a must (especially since NEX already has this with a Metabones adapter). Video has to be better than the 7D to compete. High ISO noise has to be better than the 7D to compete.

If they can pull a camera out which is better than the NEX-7 (which already is overall a better camera than my 7D in my view), I'll preorder no matter the cost.

Full frame is neat but I think unrealistic....there'd be too many compromises and I'm not sure there's enough demand at the price they'd have to charge to keep it from competing with the MKIII on price. If it were the size of a GH2, mirrorless, full frame with MKIII capability, I might buy but I'm not convinced that's what this will be....it just doesn't make sense for Canon to do it business wise. Despite the capability of the GH2, that format of camera has never been popular.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: J on May 16, 2012, 03:08:00 PM
I'm expecting G1X sensor. I'm thinking they will pull a Nikon 1, just less extreme. Unlike Nikon, I hope they can actually capitalize on actually smaller lenses for the smaller sensor.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: infared on May 16, 2012, 03:48:02 PM
I hope that the Canon mirrorless model is not that great! LOL!.  I have two MFT bodies and 9 MFT lenses....Canonl, please screw up this release really badly.... Slow Zoom lenses with lackluster performance is what I am hoping for here!!!! If it is like the Nikon...I can go to sleep at night, no problem.
LOL!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: J on May 16, 2012, 03:57:46 PM
If it is like the Nikon...I can go to sleep at night, no problem.
LOL!

I do not want Canon to pull a Nikon, but I expect them to. That's life in the mass market.

It would be nice if they did two mirrorless lines, a G1X mainstream line and a FF Fuji/Leica-killer line.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on May 16, 2012, 04:11:02 PM
Interesting.  Of the available mirrorless options, the Nikon is the only one that's even remotely interesting to me.  This is because it's fast and has usable tracking autofocus due to its on-sensor phase detection system.  All the others are just overgrown compacts that don't have the benefits compacts have of actually being compact combined with being cheap.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Longkou on May 16, 2012, 04:13:26 PM
The best thing Canon could do with this mirrorless camera is to take new customers away from Leica with a FF body. Its not that hard, Leica is using OLD technologies alongside its full frame which would quite easily be kicked to the side if Canon does it right. Sure the Leica lenses are always going to be a deal breaker but few people can afford that and people can live without it considering Canon's great quality glass and price point.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Positron on May 16, 2012, 04:14:39 PM
Wouldn't it technically be three cameras? The T4I..the 650D...and then some mirrorless camera?

Just because it's two SKUs doesn't mean it's a different camera.

Besides, you missed the Kiss X6.

Nobody says that Apple released 6 iPhones last year (16/32/64GB and Black/White).
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Daniel Flather on May 16, 2012, 04:16:00 PM
Mirror-less that is 24*36 and ef mount —dreams.  Although, I'll entertain moar rumoarz.
Title: Re: Looks like 8 or maybe even 10 new Canon cameras in 2012!
Post by: preppyak on May 16, 2012, 04:19:51 PM
OTOH, it could also use the existing mount system and they can intro some trendy new pancake primes and short zooms to go with it. APS-C size sensor makes most sense to start but I guess we'll see.
Well, they did have rumors about a 40mm pancake lens being developed, and there were also rumors of some other lenses for mirrorless.

It'd be a shame if they aren't cross-compatible with EF, cause it'd be a nice way to get some cheap, small lenses that Canon doesn't seem to really make anymore.

Wouldn't it technically be three cameras? The T4I..the 650D...and then some mirrorless camera?
T4i and 650D are the same thing (much like the T3i/600D, T2i/550D, etc). One is named for the US market, the other for foreign markets. Apparently too many numbers confuse us Americans.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dtameling on May 16, 2012, 04:24:04 PM
Interesting.  Of the available mirrorless options, the Nikon is the only one that's even remotely interesting to me.  This is because it's fast and has usable tracking autofocus due to its on-sensor phase detection system.  All the others are just overgrown compacts that don't have the benefits compacts have of actually being compact combined with being cheap.

Autofocus on some compact cameras is fantastic. For the tests I've seen between the V1 and the NEX7, the NEX beats it in every test except single point autofocus where the lens is already set to the correct distance. I expect the Nikon has better low light performance but autofocus isn't everything...far from it. I admit however that these tests can be somewhat subjective. From experience i can say that the NEX-7 is very fast and autofocus is quite capable.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Daniel Flather on May 16, 2012, 04:24:15 PM
No? Didn't think so.   ;D  If wishes were fishes the sea would be full :)

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dlleno on May 16, 2012, 05:00:43 PM
I wonder if the 650D will have a new APS-C sensor which will appear in the 7D2
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: infared on May 16, 2012, 05:21:50 PM
If it is like the Nikon...I can go to sleep at night, no problem.
LOL!

I do not want Canon to pull a Nikon, but I expect them to. That's life in the mass market.

It would be nice if they did two mirrorless lines, a G1X mainstream line and a FF Fuji/Leica-killer line.

I think it is a total dream that Canon would make a full-frame mirrorless camera. No way. (I would like to see it too, though).
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: clarkia on May 16, 2012, 05:34:40 PM
something to give the om-d or x-pro 1 a run for their money would be amazing. it needs to be better than the Nikon 1. i don't see Canon making new lenses that are M mount or 4/3 compatible but it sure would be nice...

as the om-d shows, sensor size is becoming less and less of a factor in determining IQ these days. still not SLR quality but some damn fine images given the size and weight of cameras in this category- one that's just going to explode in the next few years... exciting times for everyone (other than Leica...)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Lee Jay on May 16, 2012, 05:35:05 PM
Interesting.  Of the available mirrorless options, the Nikon is the only one that's even remotely interesting to me.  This is because it's fast and has usable tracking autofocus due to its on-sensor phase detection system.  All the others are just overgrown compacts that don't have the benefits compacts have of actually being compact combined with being cheap.

Autofocus on some compact cameras is fantastic. For the tests I've seen between the V1 and the NEX7, the NEX beats it in every test except single point autofocus where the lens is already set to the correct distance. I expect the Nikon has better low light performance but autofocus isn't everything...far from it. I admit however that these tests can be somewhat subjective. From experience i can say that the NEX-7 is very fast and autofocus is quite capable.

There are no compact cameras that can track moving subjects effectively, and only the Nikon can do it in the mirrorless group.  Speed of AF on a stationary subject is largely irrelevant, and that's all most people quote.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dr croubie on May 16, 2012, 05:38:18 PM
Canon will announce 2 new cameras in June

Maybe.
But how many will they ship?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: keithfullermusic on May 16, 2012, 06:01:23 PM
I think we are misreading what canon is saying.  My guess is that they will announce that the first two 1DXs will be ready to ship. 
Title: Stop announcing and start delivering!
Post by: clicstudio on May 16, 2012, 06:18:16 PM
Tired of all the announcements and still waiting for a 1DX and 24-70II... My friend will finally get his 5DIII on Friday from B&H but no grip until who knows when...
This is BS!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: xthebillx on May 16, 2012, 06:33:15 PM
Great! (When do we get the bg-e11?)

Also, the image CR keeps using for these "mirrorless" posts has a prism...and therefore has a mirror...am I wrong about that?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: wockawocka on May 16, 2012, 07:06:21 PM
Full frame mirrorless with EF lenses, wow.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on May 16, 2012, 07:09:54 PM
FF mirrorless? If Canon brings that out, I'll eat my hat! Mind you, the last time I said that, it was in another forum and it was about the Nikon D800, still picking wool out of my teeth now!

FF mirrorless would possibly make it taste nicer though!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: RobertG. on May 16, 2012, 07:17:10 PM
I guess we get a G1X with a new mount adaptable to EF-S for a price of more than $1000. Some overpriced miodocre lenses, too. Nothing exiting.

A M9 competitor with EF mount would be really great. A usable, small back-up body for professionals for a decent price (< $1500) would be best. I'll continue dreaming...
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Woody on May 16, 2012, 09:44:26 PM
I've got zero interest in these cameras. The only thing that has my attention is: how good is their low ISO dynamic range? :)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Woody on May 16, 2012, 09:52:31 PM
Autofocus on some compact cameras is fantastic. For the tests I've seen between the V1 and the NEX7, the NEX beats it in every test except single point autofocus where the lens is already set to the correct distance. I expect the Nikon has better low light performance but autofocus isn't everything...far from it. I admit however that these tests can be somewhat subjective. From experience i can say that the NEX-7 is very fast and autofocus is quite capable.

Everyone forgets that the V1/J1 ONLY uses phase detection in good light. When light levels drop, they default to contrast based AF which has pathetic performance according to DPReview:

"Assuming that the light level is high enough, then the J1 and V1 switch to a 73-point focal-plane phase-detection AF system that offers fast and responsive 'single-shot' AF and impressive continuous AF tracking performance.

The switch to phase-detection AF depends on the amount of light falling onto the cameras' sensors, which is dependant on lens aperture as well as ambient light levels...

The J1 and V1's contrast-detection AF systems, which take over when light levels are too low for effective phase-detection AF (and remember that this is the camera's decision, not the photographer's) are less impressive. Focussing is less positive (AF wobbles quickly around the target rather than locking straight on it) but impressively accurate when it gets a 'lock'. The problem is that even in average interior room light, both cameras struggle to find that lock. They rarely give up completely (and built-in AF illuminators are on hand in both cameras) but we've been surprised by how frequently they falter."

- from http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/8 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikonv1j1/8)

And that is the complete picture of V1/J1 AF performance. :)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: unfocused on May 16, 2012, 10:20:41 PM
Almost everyone seems focused on the mirrorless. I'm anxious to see what this new Rebel is like. Hoping it will provide some clues as to the direction Canon will take with the 7DII. (At least I'll enjoy reading the tea leaves like everyone else.)
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Positron on May 16, 2012, 11:48:04 PM
Great! (When do we get the bg-e11?)

Also, the image CR keeps using for these "mirrorless" posts has a prism...and therefore has a mirror...am I wrong about that?

It's just an artist's rendition. Also, see OM-D.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: maxxevv on May 16, 2012, 11:55:35 PM
A mirrorless FF would be absolutely awesome... it would get the Leica M9 into loads of sales problems ...

BUT ... that isn't likely to happen anytime soon as its not a mass market item.

My guess is, its a camera with the G1X sensor, custom lenses that are ultra small,( since it has such a short back-focus distance from previous patent information).  Will fit EF and EF-s lenses with an adaptor as well as compatible with the full range of Canon flashes and share some of the Rebel series stuff such as remotes and maybe batteries.

A US$1,000 kit at launch.  ???   :P ;D
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: the-ninth on May 17, 2012, 12:10:59 AM
Hi guys,

I also cannot imagine a FF mirrorless, though I'd buy one if it is at $3K with a decent 50mm. EF is not a must if it limits Canon's ability to produce lenses of a smaller size, befitting a compact system. Small lenses are really a must here. Why would I need a mirrorless if I'd put a 70-200/2.8 in front? APS-C would be OK as well, anything smaller disappointing (Bokeh!).

But I guess us geeks, looking for a second option next to our DSLR, is not the main market that Canon wants to target, so their considerations might be different. ;)

Cheers, Robert
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: John Thomas on May 17, 2012, 04:46:19 AM
But the question is:

It will be better than Sony's???

http://photorumors.com/2012/05/13/sony-a99-specs/ (http://photorumors.com/2012/05/13/sony-a99-specs/)

    The Sony A99 camera will have 24.3 MP full frame sensor.
    The A99 will have 102 focus points.
    Two different A99 prototypes are being evaluated - one of them has a flip and touch screen.
    The A99 will have 3 million pixel high-definition EVF.
    To be announced in September 2012.
    Price: 18,000 yuan (around $2,800).
    The A99 will  support 24 video recording formats and a variety of screen style filters.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on May 17, 2012, 04:58:59 AM
But the question is: It will be better than Sony's???

Sony marketing hype aside, there has been a recent thread here "the writing's on the wall for traditional dslrs" and sadly I have to agree. The only question is if Canon will be able to convert some of their current market share in the entry-level segment into the new market, while retaining the upgrade path to high-end dslrs (i.e. the ef mount). But Canon has to get started now, and obviously they are going to.

Personally, I hope I'll never have to use an evf that draws power just for looking through it, but then again many even older-school photogs maybe wished they'll never use af or automatic metering...
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Z on May 17, 2012, 06:54:17 AM
I'm not the best informed on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong... but Sony's translucent mirror technology is what allows the EVF with phase detect AF, and a translucent mirror is always going to lose light. Do we really see professionals adopting a system where they lose ~20% of the light their fast glass provides?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: moreorless on May 17, 2012, 08:07:15 AM
I'm not the best informed on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong... but Sony's translucent mirror technology is what allows the EVF with phase detect AF, and a translucent mirror is always going to lose light. Do we really see professionals adopting a system where they lose ~20% of the light their fast glass provides?

Indeed, to me SLT seems like a solution looking for a problem, Sony trying to seperate their products from Canon and Nikon with a gimmick to avoid direct competision.

The lower end of the mirrorless market to me seems to be much more of a threat to bridge compacts than DSLR's. As you move up in the market the big problem mirrorless systems are always going to have is balancing the lenses IMHO, who is going to want to use a 400g mirrorless with a 900g 24-70 2.8 on it?

My guess is that the higher end of the market will become spilt between DSLR's based on mostly zooms and tele's while mirrorless will go after the smaller Leicaish market as Fuji have.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: facedodge on May 17, 2012, 08:11:05 AM
But the question is: It will be better than Sony's???

Sony marketing hype aside, there has been a recent thread here "the writing's on the wall for traditional dslrs" and sadly I have to agree. The only question is if Canon will be able to convert some of their current market share in the entry-level segment into the new market, while retaining the upgrade path to high-end dslrs (i.e. the ef mount). But Canon has to get started now, and obviously they are going to.

Personally, I hope I'll never have to use an evf that draws power just for looking through it, but then again many even older-school photogs maybe wished they'll never use af or automatic metering...

Will Canon's mirrorless be better than Sony's Flagship DSLR? Talk about apples and oranges!
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: mws on May 17, 2012, 08:18:12 AM
Screw new cameras, Canon should plow all their money into R&D on IQ and DR.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dlleno on May 17, 2012, 08:56:46 AM
Almost everyone seems focused on the mirrorless. I'm anxious to see what this new Rebel is like. Hoping it will provide some clues as to the direction Canon will take with the 7DII. (At least I'll enjoy reading the tea leaves like everyone else.)

+1.  Clues, including the next generation of APS-C sensors, i.e. whether or not the 650 will have a mp-war sensor, and a IQ/DR sensor on the 7D2
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dtameling on May 17, 2012, 09:46:27 AM
I'm not the best informed on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong... but Sony's translucent mirror technology is what allows the EVF with phase detect AF, and a translucent mirror is always going to lose light. Do we really see professionals adopting a system where they lose ~20% of the light their fast glass provides?

This is why (allegedly), there is more noise at high ISO in the A77 than cameras like the NEX which have no mirror as they are turning up the gain to compensate. The mirror also reduces sharpness of the final image slightly.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on May 17, 2012, 12:17:58 PM
Will Canon's mirrorless be better than Sony's Flagship DSLR? Talk about apples and oranges!

My comment (obviously) wasn't directed at the upcoming Canon or Sony products, but at the fact that Sony does seem to haven an advantage in both the sensor and mirrorless/translucent technology, and it will be interesting how and if Canon manages to catch up.

I'm not the best informed on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong... but Sony's translucent mirror technology is what allows the EVF with phase detect AF, and a translucent mirror is always going to lose light. Do we really see professionals adopting a system where they lose ~20% of the light their fast glass provides?

Canon already had two such products: the eos 1n-rs & eos rt. I had the latter, and it's lovely - almost no shutter lag since no mirror flips, and you can actually see what you shoot because there's no blackout. I'd exchange my mirror system anytime for 20% less light and translucent mirror (and video af!), but without evf. But the problem with the eos rt was that the mirror also affected sharpness, I don't know if Sony has solved this by now.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Herero on May 17, 2012, 09:24:25 PM
So my question is with the potential announcement/release of 3 new bodies this year, does it make it unlikely any other products will be released until 2013? I ask because I've been shooting with for the last year and a half with a XS and have been wanting to either upgrade to a 60d or it's successor. Pretty much is a 70d so far off that I might as well pull the trigger?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: Marsu42 on May 18, 2012, 03:47:06 AM
So my question is with the potential announcement/release of 3 new bodies this year, does it make it unlikely any other products will be released until 2013?

I don't think Canon has a fixed limit of releases per year, we can very well see another by photokina time. The only question if Canon has its strategy worked out yet (will there be a 7d2? or only a 70d moved up?) and feels if their current sensor tech justifies an update of the good, working 18mp aps-c bodies. So When someone asks a question like this, I'd always say "get the 60d now, it has dropped in price & runs magic lantern".
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: dlleno on May 18, 2012, 09:53:16 AM
hopefully the emerging Rebel will give us some clues re:  Canon strategy for Crop.  Whether or not the new Rebel contains a new sensor is probably the biggest point of interest
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: K-amps on May 18, 2012, 03:33:02 PM
I'm not the best informed on this so someone correct me if I'm wrong... but Sony's translucent mirror technology is what allows the EVF with phase detect AF, and a translucent mirror is always going to lose light. Do we really see professionals adopting a system where they lose ~20% of the light their fast glass provides?

Thats one of looking at it.... another way is, Going from ISO 100 to ISO 125 or thereabouts.... The exmor sensor has better low light capability... so it could be a wash.

There are other things that bother me more; like the e-VF and AF performance.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: mws on May 21, 2012, 10:17:38 AM
FF would be awesome, but it would just be big and expensive, but I would love to see something go against Leica.

I'm guessing it will be C size with a new mount. All I really care about is if it can fit into a (coat) pocket, with a prime pancake.

Now I just can't decided if I should wait for this or pick up a E-P2 w/ a 17mm on it, there are some nice deals on ebay.
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: photoxication on May 22, 2012, 10:41:45 AM
Hoping for FF canon mirrorless and EF mount pancakes available before September, I don't care if it's Digic IV, V, or V+ as long as the Black and White is nice.  I always think about getting into street photography for the fun of it, but never can decide on the right gear... I don't want to start a whole new collection of lenses that aren't interoperable with my DSLR if possible...
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: taz on May 22, 2012, 11:20:04 AM
Hope the mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor and not a tiny sensor!

Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: pdirestajr on May 22, 2012, 03:03:06 PM
If they are going to start a new system without a mirror, they should do something really awesome and throw a square APS-C sensor into it! It would give Canon a huge point of difference in the market.

You can crop to landscape or portrait from one orientation, & a circular fish-eye lens would be absolutely radical.

Is this possible technical forum people?
Title: Re: Canon to Announce 2 Cameras in June [CR2]
Post by: itsnotmeyouknow on May 22, 2012, 07:01:37 PM
Hope the mirrorless camera will have a APS-C sensor and not a tiny sensor!

If i was to bet on it, I suspect it would be the G1X sensor.  Could be better but could be very much worse!