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Gear Talk => Lenses => Topic started by: bradfordswood on September 10, 2012, 12:19:33 PM

Title: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: bradfordswood on September 10, 2012, 12:19:33 PM
Hello,

Wondering if anyone knows of a wide angle lens that is compatible with both crop sensor and full frame cameras?

Shooting on a 60d now but anticipating upgrading in the next few years.  I am aware of the 16-35L but it's out of my price range.  Any other options out there?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: akiskev on September 10, 2012, 01:11:49 PM
Sigma 12-24
Canon 17-40
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: Random Orbits on September 10, 2012, 01:35:37 PM
I have read that some have used the Tokina 11-16 successfully on FF at 16mm only even though it's designed for crop bodies.

If you are willing to keep the crop body when you upgrade to FF, it might make sense to get a crop UWA lens.  Canon's 10-22, Sigma's 8-16 and Tokina's 11-16 are all highly rated, less expensive and will perform comparably on crop bodies as the 16-35 will on FF.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: Dylan777 on September 10, 2012, 02:43:30 PM
Hello,

Wondering if anyone knows of a wide angle lens that is compatible with both crop sensor and full frame cameras?

Shooting on a 60d now but anticipating upgrading in the next few years.  I am aware of the 16-35L but it's out of my price range.  Any other options out there?

Thanks!

Buy a used ef-s 10-22 for your 60D now. Sell it later when you ready for FF, get 16-35 or 17-40 for your FF.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: keithfullermusic on September 10, 2012, 03:54:03 PM
i tried my buddies tokina 11-16 on my 5d3, and it does work - sort of...

at 16 you don 't see the black ring, but the quality suffers a little bit.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: preppyak on September 10, 2012, 04:14:09 PM
Shooting on a 60d now but anticipating upgrading in the next few years.  I am aware of the 16-35L but it's out of my price range.  Any other options out there?
The Sigma 12-24 would be your only real option, as anything else sacrifices far too much on the wide end (16mm+) to be considered ultra-wide on crop. The difference between 10/11mm and 16mm is very big, and I don't think its worth the trade off for thousands of pictures on the hope you might move to full-frame in a few years

I have a Tokina 11-16, but the 10-22 and 8-16 mentioned would be equally good. And they all hold their value well (being well regarded), so you can probably trade them straight up for a 17-40 when/if you move to full-frame. Or, Canon may have an even better wide angle by then.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: cliffwang on September 10, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
I think there is no perfect solution if you are not going to upgrade to FF in the coming months.  I would suggest

1. Canon 10-22mm
2. Sigma 12-24mm

Canon 10-22mm has good IQ, but not great IQ.  It's still good but don't expect it would be as good as 16-35mm.  The only disadvantages are you cannot use it on FF body and the resell value is bad(I sold my 6 month 10-22 with UV and hood for 600 only).

Sigma 12-24mm can used on both APS-C and FF body with wide enough angle.  I didn't like it because the IQ is not that good for me.  I cannot tell that's because I got a bad copy or what.

Edit:
More information for Sigma 12-24mm.  You cannot use any filter on this lens.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: dr croubie on September 10, 2012, 05:02:49 PM
I've got the Sigma 8-16mm, and it will work at 15-16mm or so on FF. Compared to the Sigma 12-24 on FF, I reckon the 8-16 on crop produces better images.
It's one of the better crop-UWAs, use it for the widest angles outdoors. The tokina 11-16 f/2.8 is for indoors, and the EFs 10-22 is the halfway compromise.

Unfortunately, there's not much else to choose from. Two versions of the Sigma 12-24 (version 1 for rectilinear but slightly soft, version 2 is sharper but barrel distorted) are your best bets. Or maybe just a 14mm Prime? Samyang for the cheap, Canon L for the less distortion.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: IIIHobbs on September 10, 2012, 05:18:20 PM
Agree with many others here, the Canon EFS 10-22, new or used is a great Wide angle for a crop sensor body. I had one with my 40D, sold it when moving to the 5DIII. It offers a great range effectively giving you a 16-35 field of view on your 60D.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: cliffwang on September 10, 2012, 05:20:27 PM
I've got the Sigma 8-16mm, and it will work at 15-16mm or so on FF. Compared to the Sigma 12-24 on FF, I reckon the 8-16 on crop produces better images.
It's one of the better crop-UWAs, use it for the widest angles outdoors. The tokina 11-16 f/2.8 is for indoors, and the EFs 10-22 is the halfway compromise.

Unfortunately, there's not much else to choose from. Two versions of the Sigma 12-24 (version 1 for rectilinear but slightly soft, version 2 is sharper but barrel distorted) are your best bets. Or maybe just a 14mm Prime? Samyang for the cheap, Canon L for the less distortion.
Do you have any experience with Samyang 14mm?  Some reviews say this lens is good except for distortion.  Is that's possible to correct the distortion from lightroom?  By the way some people on Amazon report the lens will get dust easily, how is the build quality of this lens?
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: RLPhoto on September 10, 2012, 06:47:30 PM
24L  8)
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: dr croubie on September 10, 2012, 08:25:23 PM
Do you have any experience with Samyang 14mm?  Some reviews say this lens is good except for distortion.  Is that's possible to correct the distortion from lightroom?  By the way some people on Amazon report the lens will get dust easily, how is the build quality of this lens?

I haven't used the Samyang 14mm, only the 35mm.
The IQ is excellent, and the build quality is not us to zeiss/takumar standards, but it's good enough (mine was bought second-hand after a fall, the bits that broke were small bits of plastic, they'd survive normal use but not a fall). With the 35mm, dust could get inside the mechanism, but not between the elements, can't comment on the 14 in that respect.
With regards to the 14mm, from all reports it even beats the Canon L at some settings. But because of the barrel distortion (like 5% or so), resolution is really high in the centre. I'm sure you could de-barrel it, even manually (take a test shot of a brick wall or print a grid and save the numbers you use to get it square), then centre res would be a bit less. Still, at 1/4 the price of the L, it can't be beaten for the money...
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: Mt Spokane Photography on September 10, 2012, 10:00:25 PM
I'd recommend buying a 10-22 for now, and once you get a FF, get a FF lens. 
Trying to make a crop lens work on a FF body is wasting your time and your money.  It might be fun to play with, but after investing $$$ in a FF body, get a proper lens.
Besides, by the time you go FF, Canon may have a new wide lens that you will want for your FF body.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: adhocphotographer on September 10, 2012, 10:07:46 PM
I'd recommend buying a 10-22 for now, and once you get a FF, get a FF lens. 
......
Besides, by the time you go FF, Canon may have a new wide lens that you will want for your FF body.

+1 the resale value is pretty good on the 10-22...
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: cliffwang on September 11, 2012, 02:08:18 AM
I'd recommend buying a 10-22 for now, and once you get a FF, get a FF lens. 
......
Besides, by the time you go FF, Canon may have a new wide lens that you will want for your FF body.

+1 the resale value is pretty good on the 10-22...
Are you sure the resell value of 10-22mm is good?  I had posted my 6 months 10-22mm on CL for two weeks and asking for 650 in bay area.  No one offered more than 600 for it.  In the last, I had to compromise the price 600 USD.  6 month lens for only about 75% resell value.

bradfordswood,
If you are not planing to upgrade to FF anytime soon, you really can consider 10-22mm.  Actually that's good for you because you know you may not upgrade to FF anytime soon.  I bought 10-22mm when I was not sure if I would upgrade to FF or not.  In five month, I upgraded to 5D2.  I had used the 10-22mm less than 10 times.  I feel I wasted my money.  However, I have a lot of fun with that lens.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: cliffwang on September 11, 2012, 02:12:10 AM
Do you have any experience with Samyang 14mm?  Some reviews say this lens is good except for distortion.  Is that's possible to correct the distortion from lightroom?  By the way some people on Amazon report the lens will get dust easily, how is the build quality of this lens?

I haven't used the Samyang 14mm, only the 35mm.
The IQ is excellent, and the build quality is not us to zeiss/takumar standards, but it's good enough (mine was bought second-hand after a fall, the bits that broke were small bits of plastic, they'd survive normal use but not a fall). With the 35mm, dust could get inside the mechanism, but not between the elements, can't comment on the 14 in that respect.
With regards to the 14mm, from all reports it even beats the Canon L at some settings. But because of the barrel distortion (like 5% or so), resolution is really high in the centre. I'm sure you could de-barrel it, even manually (take a test shot of a brick wall or print a grid and save the numbers you use to get it square), then centre res would be a bit less. Still, at 1/4 the price of the L, it can't be beaten for the money...
Thanks for the information.  I think I might give the Samyang 14mm a try.  Since the lens will be used for landscape photos, AF is not really important for me.
A stupid question.  How can I de-barrel?
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: dr croubie on September 11, 2012, 04:15:58 AM
I've used PanoTools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panotools) in the past, it's free and it's for Linux, which I use. It's available for windows using ptgui as far as I know.
I mostly use it as part of Hugin, the image stitching program, but i've used it directly as a UFRaw plugin, to de-barrel when raw-converting. To calibrate, I printed a spreadsheet from excel with the lines showing, so I got a bit of a printed grid. I took a photo of that, rawconverted in ufraw, and played around with the sliders until it looked rectilinear again. Then I wrote down the numbers, and every time I used that lens (efs15-85 @15mm), I typed the numbers back in to make it rectilinear.

I don't use it much anymore that way, because now i rawconvert in dpp. But i'm sure you could get a plugin for photoshop or lightroom. Or any number of other programs would all work in the same way...
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: benherman on September 11, 2012, 06:04:20 AM
Be patient save up, go FF and either 16-35 or 17-40. Save up.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: meli on September 11, 2012, 08:04:34 AM
Hello,

Wondering if anyone knows of a wide angle lens that is compatible with both crop sensor and full frame cameras?

Shooting on a 60d now but anticipating upgrading in the next few years.  I am aware of the 16-35L but it's out of my price range.  Any other options out there?

Thanks!

Buy a used ef-s 10-22 for your 60D now. Sell it later when you ready for FF, get 16-35 or 17-40 for your FF.

second that,
you wont see what the 16-35 is about till you get an FF. Up till then you'll be shooting with the equivalent of 27mm, hell even your 24-70 will be wider than everything you shot with your 60d. In this sense i wouldn't recommend the 16-35. You would be much happier with a used 10-22 plus it'll keep its resale value. Another thing is that -for me at least- 10-22 is a much better lens in crop than the 16-35.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: koolman on September 11, 2012, 08:42:28 AM
Samyang 14mm MF lens. At this FL the MF is not a problem.

The sharpness and IQ resembles zeiss.

Better on crop but FF compatible as well.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: preppyak on September 11, 2012, 09:49:15 AM
Are you sure the resell value of 10-22mm is good?  I had posted my 6 months 10-22mm on CL for two weeks and asking for 650 in bay area.  No one offered more than 600 for it.  In the last, I had to compromise the price 600 USD.  6 month lens for only about 75% resell value.
Well, there are multiple mistakes here. One, using Craigslist and being surprised that people low-balled you. If you're selling expensive photo equipment, go to a photography forum to sell it. You'd have probably gotten $650 pretty quickly from FredMiranda or POTN. This also makes the point, buy the 10-22 used from someone in mint condition, you'll save some money (say 10% off retail), and when you resell it, you'll have not lost that initial retail price.

Every lens, no matter what, is gonna lose 5-10% when its no longer brand new in the box. Only if the demand gets really high (24-70 for example) will a used lens sell higher than new. But, if the trade off of spending the extra $100 in this case is that you get a useful focal length for 2 years before upgrading, it's well worth the money
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: MarkIII on September 11, 2012, 09:52:05 AM
Have you considered saving your money and just renting the lens as you need it? Instead of spending money only to have to resell it soon. It may be a little annoying not having it on you 24/7 but if you are thinking of upgrading soon anyways it may save you money.
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: 87vr6 on September 11, 2012, 10:41:28 AM
No one has really mentioned the 8-15L.... Works on both, and if you get DxO software, or are good with photoshop, you turn the the fisheye images into rectilinear images fairly easily with good results...

Don't laugh, I'm just using this page and images as reference...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/15mm-fisheye.htm#dist (http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/lenses/15mm-fisheye.htm#dist)
Title: Re: Wide Angle for Crop and FF?
Post by: The Bad Duck on September 11, 2012, 10:48:57 AM
Sigma 12-24 or samyang 14. I have the samyang on my wishlist.