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Messages - LetTheRightLensIn

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1
EOS Bodies / Re: Big Announcements Coming Next Week [CR3]
« on: January 29, 2015, 09:16:29 PM »
Wait, isn't friday a realllly weird day? I thought they always wanted to launch big news during the week?

2
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 29, 2015, 08:34:33 PM »
Why does everyone assume it is a done deal that an Exmore chip will be used?

It could be Sony fabricating a new Canon design that they are able to produce more efficiently than Canon can in-house...

It could be Sony fabricating an existing Canon design....

It could be Sony fabricating a hybrid Sony/Canon design...

It could be a pure Sony design...

It could just be a rumour....

It could be a prototype...

It could be lots of things....

We don't know. Period!

Of course, but why go to a rumor site if you don't wanna discuss things about if so and so proves to be true?

3
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 29, 2015, 05:52:28 PM »


I believe all amplifiers with SONY are on the CMOS and with CANON are not. How will they merge that logic. Complete change of logic on one or both of vendors' proprietary  DSP (digital signal processor). In Canon that means DIGIC 7S (s - for Sony sensors).

And how have they merged Sony sensor with Canon DIGiC 6 in G7 X?

BTW: currently I've got reasons to consider all that Canon/Sony tech exchange to be [CR0] eg. never going to happen. Still there is a chance I'm wrong.

Two whole  different sensors,  in G7X it is a Sony BSI, in the SLR  cameras there are Sony Exmor

But the Canon Sony RX100 clone has a Sony Exmor chip and uses Digic.
Who says they have to use any ADC part of DIGIC?
Are we even sure the ADC is part of digic itself?

4
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 29, 2015, 01:33:11 PM »
Not really. Canon didn't really tune for anything much. They don't have the ability to not have the curve fade down at low ISO, they are forced into it.

Also if you compare 6D to D750 then it's only like 1/4 stop better for high ISO DR, that is NOTHING. Even the D810 (which was tuned down a touch to be extra good at low ISO since the base is ISO64 instead of ISO100) is still only like 1/2 stop worse at high ISO. And the Exmor in the A7S which has base set to favor high ISO a bit, I believe has both better low ISO DR (although not by quite as much as the D810) and a tiny bit better at high ISO than the 6D at the same time.


Having had to hear about all the dynamic range hype for the last 2 years, I'm going to finally chime in with some facts for those who might be missing the full story.

Comparing dynamic range between Nikon and Canon is a little bit of apples to oranges.

Nikon with the Sony sensor has "tuned" their sensor technology to offer massive dynamic range at lower ISO. Canon on the other hand, has "tuned" their sensors to have good dynamic range across all ISO range, particularly high ISO. They give up big DR at low ISO to improve it at high ISO which high ISO is much, much more difficult territory for good dynamic range.

Everyone goes to DXO and reads the results - then makes the blanket statement that Nikon has superior DR. Have they looked into the testing methodology? What is being measured and where?

DXO even says that the DR measure is based on LANDSCAPE type photography. This is LOW ISO world. On that, yes the Nikon is better. No question.

If you click on the full test results - you'll find this chart on DXO Mark -



Here you can see the fairly new, and mighty D810, hailed to have the best sensor of all time has weaker DR than the old, entry-level full frame 6D from ISO 800 and beyond.

So it really depends on what you're doing. I'm sure Sony/Nikon could have tweaked it to have better high ISO dynamic range at the expense of low ISO dynamic range - but that is not what they went for.

Having said all this - for me it all comes down to whether or not the dynamic range on these sensors can be tweaked, or if this is something inherent with their design. If it can be adjusted by manufacturer, then I wouldn't mind the Sony sensor in a Canon. The Sony sensor is very efficient for the pixel size. If going with the Sony sensor means losing high ISO DR, that is a no-go for anyone shooting events.

5
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 29, 2015, 01:25:25 PM »
Here's a good question... IF this bears fruit... will Canon correct the well known inferior color rendition of the Exmor?  Hmmm....  Place your bets!  That's the only real downside to a Sony sensor because a hallmark of Canon is the most accurate color fidelity.

To me, adding DR with the Exmor won't be worth a hoot if the color isn't as excellent as it has always been with the Canon sensors.  More DR and less noise are almost of no importance to me, but color is another matter.  Color is my number one factor when it comes to IQ.

Hopefully you are still using a 1Ds3 and nothing recent from Canon then. And under natural lighting, recent Nikon actually can see more different colors than recent Canon.

Anyway who says Canon won't use the same types of CFA filters with Exmor that they do now? (not that this is necessarily good, unless they go back to say 1Ds3 generation)

Anyway a lot of the difference is also just down to what color profile you choose. I mean heck just flip between various profiles in DPP and ACR and you get radically different color.... from the same camera!


6
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 29, 2015, 01:24:15 PM »
because a hallmark of Canon is the most accurate color fidelity.

If you look at color studies of RAW files that actually seems to be not the case and the Canon sensors have become far more color blind than even just ten years ago.

Most of it is just to do with what color array filter you put in front of the sensor. The less tight the filter the more light the sensor is allowed to capture and the better the SNR but the worse color discrimination.

Of course it is a little tricky since a camera can be more color blind for some colors and less for others and there can be a big difference under say natural lighting and then very little under a certain type of artificial, etc. So it's a very complex tricky thing to get into.

As to the final result that most people see, a lot depends upon the way the software color profiles are constructed and tweaked for each camera too.

7
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 06:22:39 PM »
If, IF Sony had a 50mp sensor, why haven't they put it in any of their own cameras yet?

I find it incredibly unlikely that Canon would use an outside firm to design such an important sensor for such an important camera.

The problem is Canon is using and old fab and it's too old to make Exmor or any of the many recent new patents from Canon for improving sensor IQ in major ways, I mean they can make the sensor sensor in terms of just the photo collection piece, but they can't put any good, modern, circuitry inside of the sensor, the pieces they need to make are too small. A new fab cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ so maybe they just gave up and figured better to partner with Sony who already has capable fabs.

Quote
But people that buy those high end Canon cameras are going to want Canon tech.

They are gonna want worse tech in the high end gear? Just to get a Canon name on all of the tech?


8
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 05:35:28 PM »
what so many people seem to forget is that Sony sensors work better at low ISO and canon sensors work best at high ISO. Nobody is best across the board. I think it would be a step backwards for the industry to just pick one.


Look at the DR difference between Sony and Canon at High ISO (rather modest, I mean what, like barely 1/4 stop worse than the 6D? and actually like at least a 1/4 stop of more better than 5D3) and at Low ISO (huge):
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Canon-EOS-6D-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___975_836_795

Look at the SNR (Sony actually ahead at High ISO, if anything, although it's basically all within the margin of error and nobody will notice any differences on this plot even if the data is exact anyway):
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Canon-EOS-6D-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___975_836_795

So....

The downsampling in the DxO testing methodology may have something to do with that.  Roger Clarke has for years, if I understand it correctly, stated that Canon sensors are the best for low-light, astro-photography and he recently called the 7D2 sensor a game changer for astro and it had something do with an advancement in dark current at high-iso (I'll go find his post later if I have time, I don't recall the details and I could be wrong).  Regardless of the details, it's perfectly plausible that whatever advancement Canon has made with the 7D2, dual-pixel AF, and possibly other tech that we don't know about has given them enough to do a cross-licensing deal with Sony.  If they had just wanted to use Sony sensors without something to trade it may have been too expensive or they may have had to give up control of other sensor design.  Bottom line is that if this rumour is true it very likely is only happening now because Canon finally has something that Sony also wants.

Well astro performance is something a bit different, it might be that Canon is best for that, but otherwise it seems to be kind of a wash at high ISO at this point (and even with Sony ahead if you look to their high ISO-tuned Exmor used in the A7S).

9
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 04:24:18 PM »
This is more likely to be someone's fantasy sensor, now churning around the rumour mills.

My thoughts exactly.

Sony has high resolution/DR and Canon has dual-pixel AF.
If we marry those two, we end up with high resolution/DR and dual-pixel AF - in the same package.

What an obvious, wonderful solution ... that is pure fantasy, I'm afraid.

There are many reasons why Canon will not switch to Sony sensors and
is unlikely to cooperate with Sony on sensor manufacturing at this time.

The rumored 50MP resolution is also fantasy, IMO.

My bet is that Canon's high-resolution camera will feature a 40mp/high-DR Canon sensor.
Let's see who will get it more right  8).

My wish is a 36+MP high DR sensor, with nice 4k and non-crippled video usability basics and non-waxy quality and that can deliver at least 6fps in some form or another (even if just in an APS-C cropped mode).  :D

My guess is a low DR, 40-50MP sensor with crippled body specs (4fps and no true cropped modes at all, never mind with more speed) and crippled 1080P.  ;D

Unless Canon becomes the old Canon again, in which case maybe it will be my wish.

10
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 04:21:40 PM »
what so many people seem to forget is that Sony sensors work better at low ISO and canon sensors work best at high ISO. Nobody is best across the board. I think it would be a step backwards for the industry to just pick one.


Look at the DR difference between Sony and Canon at High ISO (rather modest, I mean what, like barely 1/4 stop worse than the 6D? and actually like at least a 1/4 stop of more better than 5D3) and at Low ISO (huge):
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Canon-EOS-6D-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___975_836_795

Look at the SNR (Sony actually ahead at High ISO, if anything, although it's basically all within the margin of error and nobody will notice any differences on this plot even if the data is exact anyway):
http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D750-versus-Canon-EOS-6D-versus-Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-III___975_836_795

So....

11
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 02:51:24 PM »


If this comes to fruition I think jaws will hit the floor in short order.  A Sony sensor with Canon AF is insane.

yes
 ;D

12
EOS Bodies / Re: A Sony & Canon Sensor Partnership Mentioned Again [CR1]
« on: January 28, 2015, 02:48:40 PM »
At CR1 it might very well be just wishful thinking, but if this is real.... damn.  :)

13
EOS Bodies / Re: Big Announcements Coming Next Week [CR3]
« on: January 27, 2015, 08:58:09 PM »

This makes perfect sense if the criteria you seek in a camera is exactly the criteria DxO measures and you assign exactly the same relative weight to that criteria that DxO does.

???
Or simply just look at the various data points you care about, take various things into consideration and take from it what you need.


Quote
That you have found a testing lab that measures exactly what you consider to be the most important factors is great for you. Many others don't feel that way. Rather, many feel that the criteria DxO uses to select what measurements it takes do not reflect their needs, desires or even experience.

all he said is that he wanted to use their scores to compare a few sensor metrics

14
EOS Bodies / Re: Big Announcements Coming Next Week [CR3]
« on: January 26, 2015, 07:48:37 PM »
11-24mm f/4 would probably not have a bulge like a 14-24mm f/2.8 Nikon.

The leaked images of what is thought to be the lens shows it has a bulb lens on the front.  at 11mm I can't see how it could have a flat frontal lens.

Yeah I can't imagine they hit 11mm without a bulge unless it take worse picks than literally using a coke bottle.

15
EOS Bodies / Re: Big Announcements Coming Next Week [CR3]
« on: January 26, 2015, 07:36:54 PM »
Well, we finally find out whether Canon either can or cares to match Exmor and whether to live with a mish-mash of older Canon bodies plus new adapted Sony or go Nikon for some....

Hopefully it's not just the 7D2 sensor made FF size.

And whether Canon is smart enough and willing to change enough to give it a decent fps in a full-reach cropped mode (like Nikon) or will cripple it to static shots only....

And perhaps whether they punt or charge forward for video again or not....

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