November 28, 2014, 08:44:19 PM

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Messages - Maui5150

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1
But Betamax lasted a very long time - longer than VHS did. I wouldn't be surprised if you found Betamax players in TV studios, etc, around the world today so that they could use material from their archives. But VHS? Who still uses that, really?

There is a lot of FUD in your post (fear, uncertainty and doubt) that isn't backed by anything except your opinion.

Sony entered into the digital camera market at the same time as the 5D Mark II was released. The evolution of Sony's products since then has been dramatic and their lineup/quality has far outpaced that of Canon.

Funny.  Companies like Toshiba still make combo VHS players.   Say like the Toshiba DVR620 DVD Recorder

So lets see.  BetaMax was created in 1975, by 1988 they started rebranding and selling VHS machines and the last BetaMax was in 2002.  So call it 27 years, though really for the most part... dead in 13 years and in a coma unit for 14.

VHS came out in 1976, by 1980, VHS already had 60% of the market, and in fact, though really a dead format, there are even Blu-Ray / VHS combo machines made today. 

So wait But Betamax lasted a very long time - longer than VHS did.

BetaMax was on the deathbed at 13 years, finally had the plug pulled at 27 years.
VHS was born a year later, and may make it to 40 years with CURRENT production machines you can by IN A STORE.  I can go into Walmart today and find a DVD / VHS VCR combo machine today.

BetaMax?  Maybe a used one on eBay.

By far pretty much a format that is in a retirement home, but I think the fact that VHS is approaching 50% longer life span to BetaMax sums it up

Oh wait... Sony Announced a Blu-Ray BetaMax combo... Too bad that was an April fool's Day joke

2

What people are failing to understand here is that Sony learnt from Betamax and gave us BluRay and whilst Betamax may have not won the consumer marketplace, it remained "the professionals tape."

The Sony Vaio is not what many people would call a failure, same to with XBR.

Be careful of what you mark as a failure attributed to Sony.

If there is a DSLR segment that withers, it'll be the entry level - the 1200Ds, maybe even the 700D, etc line, that competes on price with mirrorless but not on form factor.

Quote

Does Sony make Vaio any more, or has it been sold off?
Does Sony make TVs any more, or has it been sold off? 

Blu-Ray?  The market has caught up a bit, but OPPO tends to still be the best

But yet, it you want to heard BetaMax as being superior, it was stronger than VHS but did not have the numbers

Which is again whay I bring up, BetaMax, TVs, and Vaio, these were all areas that Sony had strong products and to many even some of the best products on the market and they are all dead.

Failures? 

That is perspective.  I am sure there is someone out there who still has a working BetaMax box, and many probably still have working Sony TVs, and the Vaio laptops will slowly dies.

Those product lines died because Sony could not grow or manage a segment anymore...

And yes... Sony will post a $2B loss this year. 

When you have a large organization with many lines, it is nice to have diversity, but at some point, they look at investment, return, etc.  I can easily see the camera line just like betamax...

People raved about
Made up only around 10% the market
After a decent run  - closed / sold off.   

So yeah... "Market failure" - if a product is no longer in the market, and the market still around, that is ultimately  perhaps not a failure, but a DEAD LINE.

And in the world of photography.

If you jump ship today... sell off all your Canon or Nikon gear and then 2 or 3 years down the line Sony BetaMaxes/Vaios/XBRs the Alphas and sticks to making sensors and other devices for other manufacturers... what happens to your gear?  Will you take a huge price hit trying to get back into Nikon / Canon or who ever is now the market?  Or do you just say how great your camera was back in the day and try and justify that you don't need the latest. 

Truth be told, most photographers today who have gotten their gear in the last 2 or 3 years has more than what they really need for the most part.  There will always be something better.  That is the nature of business

My feeling is the Alphas are mothballed in the next 3 years. and Sony is out of Cameras.  Maybe they still will make sensors and lenses for smartphones, etc...

And for the motion pictures / Studio gear and the camera phone sensors, most of those are segmented.  Camera phone sensors and lens are part of their "Devices" division I believe and the studio gear may be part of the "imaging", but when it comes to profits, making up for Billions of losses, something tells me the "profitability" of their DSLR segment if weak in comparison.

Weak gets sold/discontinued. 

Betamax was only around 10% to VHS so if their cameras only make up 9% of the current reports camera market, not a good sign

3
Given Sony's track record, this does not bode well for them.

Broken record but
-- BetaMax
-- Vaio
-- XBR

Sony is posting a 2 Billion loss this year. 

I can see the Mirrorless segment grow
I can see the P&S shrink
I can see the DSLR shrink as well
And I can see the overall marked shrink

Where I disagree,
I don't see Mirrorless growing as much as they expect
I don't see DSLR shrinking as much as they think,

I do see Canon and Nikon trimming their lines in the future, but I see that more in the mid level. 

In terms of the professionals, for every 1 who goes to Sony, I see 9 - 10 staying Nikon / Canon, whether it is loyalty, Glass, or just preference. 

If Sony is going to continue to push R&D and only have 9% of the market, long term those margins will bite them.  It would be interesting to follow Nikon especially if their next gen go back to their own sensors - Nikon could really be up the creek if they rely on Sony and Sony folds their line like they did with TVs and Computers. They may have gotten a boost in short term using someone elses sensor, but that is dangerous if one of your main components is from a company that is bleeding money and has a history of folding product lines

4
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Is there any reason to shoot sRGB????
« on: November 26, 2014, 11:29:27 AM »
Sure.  If you are producing images that will be used for the web and are shooting in JPG.

Lets say, for instance, you are shooting photos for a marathon.  You are shooting say 2000 runners, and this is basically a churn and burn, you turn in your card, get paid and pretty much all they process is maybe slight exposure adjustments, but pretty much those images are what they are.  If they are AdobeRGB, then ALL of those images will have to be converted to srgb to look o.k. on the web.

5
EOS Bodies / Re: Another 50mp FF DSLR Mention [CR2]
« on: November 25, 2014, 11:44:02 AM »
Considering the 7d II just out, I do not see such great improvements giving a wait of 5 years. Just the video part and a little on the high iso range, but for the rest? 2fps and 2MP more? Oh, I am impressed!

You don't see great improvement IN THE AREAS you want... but there are SUBSTANTIAL improvements.
...
You do not see 65 Cross Type AF Points up from 19 as a huge improvement?

Irrelevant to those who believe that sensor = camera.

Hey... Look at this 13.2 DR.

Image is blurry and totally missed the focus on the shot, but look at the DR

LOL

6
Lenses / Re: Review: Canon EOS 7D Mark II by Fro
« on: November 25, 2014, 11:38:15 AM »
Gotta love Fro Though...

"Put your phone away, DB!!!"

I wonder if AFMA would have helped and maybe his 70-200 was just off a smidge.  It seemed consistent just to be a hair off

7
EOS Bodies / Re: Another 50mp FF DSLR Mention [CR2]
« on: November 25, 2014, 09:26:33 AM »

Considering the 7d II just out, I do not see such great improvements giving a wait of 5 years. Just the video part and a little on the high iso range, but for the rest? 2fps and 2MP more? Oh, I am impressed!


2 FPS
Video Continuous Focus
65 Cross Type AF Points (over 300% more)
Better IQ
GPS
More color depth
Lower noise at high ISO
ISO 16000 vs 6400
Larger Resolution
Dual card slots

You don't see great improvement IN THE AREAS you want... but there are SUBSTANTIAL improvements.

The AF system on the 7D MK II is night and day to the 7D, only the 1DX really has a better AF system.  Everything else had moderate boost, so it shoots faster, larger resolution, GPS, extra card slot, better high iso a little more color, etc.

7D has generally always been an Action camera.

You do not see 65 Cross Type AF Points up from 19 as a huge improvement? 

8
Canon General / Re: Does Canon really deserve this?
« on: November 25, 2014, 08:12:11 AM »
Insulting post removed by moderator

9
Canon General / Re: Does Canon really deserve this?
« on: November 25, 2014, 07:42:50 AM »
I don't know about any lag.  When the 5D2 appeared, I started seeing videographers using it at every wedding.  More recently, I see them using everything from the Rebel (xxxD series) to the 70D to the 5D3. 

They don't need the 7D2 to run ML *today*.  They're already using other Canon bodies, so there's no urgency to add a 7D2.  Getting a 5D3 just for video is a lot of money, and yet I see a lot of videographers doing exactly that, usually coupled with other Canon bodies.

Sure you can get a GH4 or something else, but that's not what I see them getting.  In recent years, I've seen exactly one videographer shooting with Panasonic gear.  All the rest were using Canon.  The video crowd that I see is not rushing away from Canon.  Instead, they are nearly all using Canon.

This and then some.

5D MK III does nice video, but I also picked up a T5i specifically as a backup and sometimes a crop sensor, at least to my eyes, plays a little more nicely with movement and shake.

In terms of video.  Most video cameras are better than DSLRs in terms or recording video, dealing with stabilization and especially AF...

BUT...

Most video cameras are limited in GLASS.  You have mainly one lens, etc, and the reason so many go to a DSLR over a standalone video is they can use their great glass and get different perspectives from Ultra wide to zoomed in. 

There are always trade offs.

As far as 4K goes, I have still been just shooting in HD and not looking forward to 4K in terms of editing, transitions, processing and burning.  Producing an hour plus HD video can be time consuming as it is

10
Canon General / Re: Does Canon really deserve this?
« on: November 25, 2014, 07:29:15 AM »
I can see great reasons to go either way... For cost, you can't beat crop.... for quality you can't beat FF....


You make it seem like there is no trade off. 

6D vs 7D MK II

They are basically the same cost. 

Yes you can get cheaper crop cameras, but what is the true cost of a crop?  Image noise at high iso?  That is a cost isn't... A cost to the IQ

Just playing some semantics with you. 

I think a better way of putting it.  Each camera has a defined set of features and suitable applications.  Depending on your budget, there are compromises one must make to find the best suitable fit given their willingness to spend or their own internal justification. 

11
Canon General / Re: Does Canon really deserve this?
« on: November 25, 2014, 07:23:19 AM »

There's no such thing as "losing" the mirrorless market.  Every year, people buy new cameras, so there are constant opportunities to sell new cameras.  It's not as if the market closes its doors at some point.  Canon will have plenty of opportunities to sell mirrorless system cameras if they want to.

As for the video crowd, Canon seems to be doing very well in video.  I photograph weddings and at most weddings there are 1 or 2 videographers.  Nearly every videographer I've seen in the past 5 years has been a Canon user, usually with several Canon bodies and a bag full of Canon lenses (sometimes some 3rd party lenses too).  At some weddings, there are so many Canon DSLRs that it's common for wedding guests to ask the videographers to take still photos of them (not realizing they are shooting video).  So, as far as I can see, videographers are heavily into Canon.  I have yet to see a wedding videographer using Nikon or Sony.

I would echo that, as well as go to almost any MAJOR sports even and what do you see... all those white long lenses..

Oh?  Those are Sony on Alphas?  LOL

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EOS Bodies / Re: Another 50mp FF DSLR Mention [CR2]
« on: November 24, 2014, 03:03:44 PM »
7D2 is a prosumer camera, like the 5D3 and tells us Canon release cycles are increasing, both for economical and technological reasons.
But forget the 7D and revise your math on the 5D. if the 5D2 was 3 years and 5D4 was 3.5 years, the 5D4 will be?
Exactly: 4 years (rounded down from 4.1). So that would be March 2016. But we will not be so lucky.

You have fallacy in your logic to believe on two data points that a release cycle is linear.

I highly doubt the 5DMKIV will be released 4.1 years after the 5DMKIII and the D5V 4.9 years after that.

If anything, seems to me that the 5D MK III might have been a tad late. 

More importantly, Canon will likely release its upgrades when it feels there is a demand as well as have a product they think meets that demand


13
EOS Bodies / Re: Another 50mp FF DSLR Mention [CR2]
« on: November 24, 2014, 02:54:44 PM »
Still waiting, still hoping, but not for long. 2015 will be my final year, I've been waiting since 2008 for a decent replacement. While Sony is evolving at a steady pace, Canon isn't. A pity !

Something tells me if you really have been waiting since 2008, you would have found this site and had at least 5 or 6 posts by now instead of three... ) 

Anyone on the fence or pining for 6 years would be far more vocal

14
Street & City / Re: Singapore - Marina Bay
« on: November 24, 2014, 10:37:11 AM »
Very pretty.  Is that from outside or shot through glass?

15
EOS Bodies / Re: Another 50mp FF DSLR Mention [CR2]
« on: November 24, 2014, 09:51:47 AM »
Interesting, I can't see it personally, a 5D4 is waiting its upgrade and will be the 4K camera, how can Canon release 2 50mps cameras in 2015 and not 1 of them be a 5D4 unless the 5D4 is 50 mp and does 4k! Highly unlikely!

Why does one have to be a 5D IV

Beast / Beast Astro

1 DX MK II

5D MK IV in 2016

I think both the 1DX and the 5D will be upgraded in the 20s but stay below 30MP, just as the Nikon 4 has stayed less than the 810 and the 750 did not jump up into the 30s either. 

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