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Messages - K-amps

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1441
Canon EF Zoom Lenses / Re: Canon EF24-105mm f/4L IS USM
« on: October 03, 2011, 10:20:13 AM »
I noticed the same softness with the 24-105 that I just bought and ultimately I decided to return it and only use prime lens for now until a new zoom update comes out maybe like the 24-70 2.8 II (hopefully with IS)!

I shoot Weddings with my 24-105 on my 5D mark 2 and find the lens focusing very inconsistent. Images taken in a sequene with the same subject, composition and focusing point, some are sharp and some arn't. Generally by saying sharp I mean usable, I wouldn't say this is a sharp lens. For a while I just thought I hadn't got a great copy, bu :(t when a fiend of mine also got a 5D and 24-105 he has had the exact same problems, both of our lens's seam to experiance more softness at the long end. Was thinking of trading up for a 24-70 with the hope it would be better? Is there anymore of you guys with a similar experiance with this lens? as it has been for me unfortunately a bit disapointing.

I use a 24-105 on a 5d1 body, no issues here.  24-105's are usually very sharp lenses: Took this one 2 days ago,

Taken at F4 fully open, so it could be sharper if stopped lower. No sharpening (PP) was done to this pic, but had to crop it up aggressively or it would not load to the site.  :-[

1442
EOS Bodies / Re: Your wishlist for your next body...
« on: October 03, 2011, 09:30:48 AM »
If the 5Dmk3 has more than 24MP, it would discourage me from upgrading.

Yes it would.... but c'mon, you'd still get one  ;)

Want to put your money where your mouth is ?

Resistance is futlie, we will all be assimilated !

1443
EOS Bodies / Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« on: September 30, 2011, 12:06:41 PM »
Once APS-C sensors are good enough with low noise & high DR, I think we will see a shift from EF to EF-S lenses....

In the longer term, I believe the opposite will happen :) It seems reasonable that, in the future, the cost for producing sensors will go down more quickly than the cost for producing optics. When the optics becomes the dominant cost of a consumer camera (as indeed used to be the case not so long ago, and already is for the most expensive lenses), it will be cheaper to produce a big-sensor camera with simpler optics for the same IQ as a more compact camera with a smaller sensor. I already envision toy cameras with Nikon V1-like colour diversity and both house and lens entirely plastic, containing a full-frame sensor and producing better IQ than today's best compacts :)

Made the assertion with the cost of EF lenses, not the sensor  :)

1444
EOS Bodies / Re: Your wishlist for your next body...
« on: September 30, 2011, 10:00:37 AM »
If the 5Dmk3 has more than 24MP, it would discourage me from upgrading.

Yes it would.... but c'mon, you'd still get one  ;)

1445
EOS Bodies / Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« on: September 30, 2011, 09:57:39 AM »
If that's the case, why doesn't someone get out there and corner the market with a sub $2000 full frame camera ? If you're right and a less expensive smaller sensor camera is good enough to keep the lights on, then why is it that Olympus and Panasonic let standard 4/3 die, Pentax (APS-C and medium format only) were bought out, while the full frame models are still going strong ?

It seems to me we're talking about the same thing -- prices are driven by demand (and not the "demands" of forum posters)

Agreed: Its demand driven. To be specific...
 
Why do we care about FF? Why not have a  30x20mm sensor as a standard? Why are train tracks the width they are? Why are they the width of 2 horses thethered side by side?  Many things are a result of backward compatibility...

In this case, it boils down to the investment in 35mm Glass we all have.... not necessarily the true cost of the FF body. Canon (like any other business)  is cashing in on this hitched loyalty. It might also explain why the other formats are dropping off... they do not have enough people out there with 4/3 glass to use perhaps.

There seems to be enough demand for APS-C and FF for these formats to live for the time being. Once APS-C sensors are good enough with low noise & high DR, I think we will see a shift from EF to EF-S lenses.... but I Digress.

1446
Things are more complex according to me, as usual... If you are taking a picture of a riot in Damascus, composition and content are (partially) less important than sharpness, focus, density, saturation etc.
But if you are taking a picture of the wall of El Capitan in Yosemite, or of a highly detailed coleopter on a beautiful and colorful flower a slight off focus, a unwanted grain, or a less than sharp pixel can spoil the best of the talents...
In the present technological era, no part of the kit can be overlooked. You can be Michael Schumacher, but without a good car, any good driver with the best car will win hands down... Obviously is also true the reverse: no best car will win without a good driver...

The Camera is like the eye, the Photographer, like the brain.

One is very limited without the other...


1447
EOS Bodies / Re: Your wishlist for your next body...
« on: September 30, 2011, 08:04:22 AM »
Lots of good ideas posted already.

... Then I'd ask for better integration with tethered displays using whatever new gadgets come along, such as the next generation iPad and the Galaxy S2 HD smartphones.  Those gadget manufacturers will improve screen performance and post-processing power much faster than Canon can.   Even better if it could be fastened to some hardpoints on the camera, and work with a viewfinder image that wouldn't be out of place in medium or large format.  Then there's the opportunity to share the workload of image processing between the in-camera chips and the tethered devices.   Maybe do a lot of the post processing right there which usually happens on the PC afterwards.  Things like perspective control in software, attaching metadata, geotagging, adding commentary for shot logging, rough cuts or news editing to squirt out over 3G, etc...  all of those become a lot easier. 

+1 

Canon should release SDK's for integration to iOS/Android, so that solutions like Promote / remote liveview and other functionality is seamless with the mobile devices.

1448
EOS Bodies / Re: DxOMark posted it's A77 results
« on: September 29, 2011, 04:54:04 PM »

I just want to add that the NEX 5N picture is significantly cleaner than the 5D II picture but, the 5D really has more fine detail.

Exactly what I thought. NEX5n looks cleaner, less noise. But 5d2 is cleaner, on the bottle the "..EWERY" letters appear as that on the 5d3 but as "FWEBY" on the nEX5n.

Not sure if it's the IQ of the sensor or merely a more aggressive NR algorithm, this would explain both the cleaner but less clear rendition of the NEX5n

1449
EOS Bodies / Re: Your wishlist for your next body...
« on: September 29, 2011, 04:29:43 PM »
One simply thing. Aperture values blink on Canon cameras when light is too high or too low. I would like they would also have some kind of sound to alert about this. You should be able to configure this. I think that the sound of the cameras could be used to give them some functionalities.

For example, if the photo is overexposed and some part of the foto is completely white, sound alert. This way you can change the settings instead of taking some overexposed photos.

Talk about acoustic feedback to hawk eared subjects.... when I take pics of kids... it's hard enough to get them to focus without beeping sounds coming to them.

It should be a feature that could be configurable (volume, disable/enable it).
Sometimes you take a photo, i.e. a wedding and you overexpose the white dress. Maybe you take 3 or 4 photos until you check them and correct the exposure or the flash. It the camera could beep after taking the first photo you could realise of your problem and fix it.

If you don't want a camera full of beeps, then disable it. Vibration could be another way to do this.

I agree with you in principle... though for a given shoot (lets say outdoors) some areas will always get burnt in sunlight with a frame with good DR, so one might disable the constant notifications and then forget to put it on for the wedding pic...   ;)  The vibration is also an interesting option , though adding weight/cost and battery drain (Canon will opt for a beeper probably)...  perhaps might be implemented in a 1D body.

1450
......Owning more expensive equipment will help you with better pictures, but only if you understand it to the maximum. ......

I agree with the first part, but not the latter part.

Give a novice a 300D with kit lens (55-250 or 75-300 III) and ask him to use Auto mode/P mode (like P&S) and ask him to take a portrait at 100mm. Using a tripod and natural light coming from a window.

Give the same guy a 7D and a 100mm f2 or f2.8 with the camera on the same tripod and all he has to do is pull the trigger in auto mode.

Which one will be better?

Did he need to understand it to the maximum? All he did was pull the trigger.

Even for complete noobs, better gear will make a difference... some difference  :)

1452

I once ran into someone who bought a 7D + 85mm f/1.2 L + 580EX II as his FIRST ever kit. He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and took a lot of stuff that more experienced photog's could take with an iPhone.

I would only go as far as saying the equipment should match the skill level of the user. Both are equally important.

I agree both are important:

But unless this guy took a loan out from his kid's college fund, I find nothing wrong in his choice or his purchase. Looks like he did his research, zoned in on a prime lens (most noobs like me would try and get max coverage from 15mm to 400mmm regardless of the speed of the lenses...) that is fast and sharp.

Why should he be asked to buy a rebel kit lens when all of us would not... The only wrong thing I can see is if he thinks he can shoot like an Art or Ansel or any great guys on this forum without learning how to shoot.

I gave my 350d and kit lens to my 12 year old daughter trying to get her into this wonderful hobby... She might take 100 pics and have 10 turn out really great... but the limitations of the kit lens then comes into play... if she had better gear, those could have been even better....

I just got my first L lens a month ago... my skills are still the same as a month ago, but my successful rate has gone up significantly. For example: Pictures with L lens dont burn out highlights as much as kit lens do, I don't know why but no one told me this would be one reason to get an L lens...

I am not saying gear is more important than skills, but gear WILL make a difference, so kudos to that guy to get decent gear.

1453
EOS Bodies / Re: Your wishlist for your next body...
« on: September 29, 2011, 09:39:57 AM »
One simply thing. Aperture values blink on Canon cameras when light is too high or too low. I would like they would also have some kind of sound to alert about this. You should be able to configure this. I think that the sound of the cameras could be used to give them some functionalities.

For example, if the photo is overexposed and some part of the foto is completely white, sound alert. This way you can change the settings instead of taking some overexposed photos.

Talk about acoustic feedback to hawk eared subjects.... when I take pics of kids... it's hard enough to get them to focus without beeping sounds coming to them.

1454
EOS Bodies / Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« on: September 29, 2011, 09:36:07 AM »
My calculation is: $300 difference between FF and APS-C, $300 for larger prism, larger shutter, lager mirror, larger body (compared to 7D). Assuming that the 5DIII have all the features of 7D then, the 5DIII should be  $600 above 7D. The current 5DII have less feature than the 7D and sells about $1000 above the 7D. Therefore the 5DII is over priced. Canon should be able to sell the 5DIII at about $2200. Since 5dIII is a FF, Canon may price it at $2800 for deeper profit.

Canon have manufacturing costs (per body produced) but they also have fixed R&D costs. How do they distribute those between the different models ? For example, if the R&D costs average $200 per camera sold, does that mean that entry level powershots "should" cost $200 plus manufacturing costs plus markup ? If you don't want to pay for the R&D, then why are we discussing prices of a model that doesn't even exist yet ? The way it ultimately works is that the way those costs are distributed among their models depends on relative supply and demand for the different models. Higher end models (those where a price increase doesn't hurt sales as much) are likely to cover more of these costs.

In terms of manufacturing costs alone -- Sony has already sold a full frame camera for $2000 (the A850). So it is likely that it is possible to get full frame cameras on the shelves for $2000 a piece with 0 marginal cost per unit  to the manufacturer.

But pricing does not depend on marginal production costs alone.  It depends partly on fixed costs and partly  on supply and demand economics (and these interact as fixed costs are likely to be distributed based on demand). The 5D Mark I has similar full frame hardware to the 5D Mark II, yet it is "underpriced" at $1000. The reason is that there is limited demand for an older model.

A lot of times, people setting the prices are not rocket scientists (surprise surprise). They do not create sophisticated price elasticity models...  I implement financial package (ERP) applications in Fortune 500 companies, and it amazes me how rudimentary their cost allocation models are. Most of the time, R&D is considered a period cost and allocated based as a percentage of selling price or product cost, then a margin is added on top of that.

If one went purely with R&D allocation, it would not inflate the prices of the higher end models as much, what does inflate those costs is the % of Mark-up tacked on. Herein comes the art of pricing, the mark-up.

 A product manager for lets say a rebel line will work on what he has to work with given his product range and not worry about pricing for the pro series, he will have sales targets (the smarter companies will have profitability targets): These Targets at times are not always set to maximize profitability, but at times are set to mantain market share and customer base till the next model comes along. The real money is made from the higher margin products, therefore for consumers, the higher end models do "rightly" seem over priced, and they are.

I am not sure if the FF's prism is 40% larger that it costs 40% more as well... the cost of material is negligible in this case, the cost over overhead would be about the same, the cost of labor might be the same or even more for the smaller prism (depending how it is manufactured). But I do get that the yields on the sensors follow a different set of rules.

A $500-600 differential between a 7D to 5D class camera (other things being the same) might be justified, the rest is fluff and mark-up!



1455
EOS Bodies / Re: Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement
« on: September 28, 2011, 10:26:18 AM »

.....so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.....


Looks like I was very close in my estimates:

http://www.naturescapes.net/docs/index.php/category-technical/223-the-economics-of-digital-photo-sensors

Thanks for sharing.

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