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Messages - Richard8971

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EOS Bodies / Re: Would you do this for a Nikon?
« on: June 20, 2012, 11:37:38 PM »
I wouldn't do anything. 1) I wouldn't be shooting with one anyway, and 2) the punk can have it!


I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life?
Only if you buy EF-S lenses. However, many of us buy EF (L) lenses and those work on FF as well. The advantage of APS-C (and the prosumer/pro 7D) is that you can get a much longer reach.

The "reach" APS-C argument doesn't really belong in the same room with the EF-S lens compatibility argument.  with the possible exception of the bargin zoom, 55-250 or whatever it is, the folks who want "reach" don't buy EF-S long lenses -- they buy long "L" glass,  and after market FF compatible long lenses.

  The only practical value to  the EF-S compatibility argument is for the WA and UWAs -- the 10-22s and the 17-55s and the 15-85s  -- where a significant investment has been already made, both in $ and in IQ, that cannot be utilized in FF.  These folks have to either sell their EF-S lenses and re-invest, or keep the old APS-C body.  If one has invested in long EF-S glass, that investment is not very sizable.

Tell that to Canon, they keep making EF-s glass and some of it is expensive! I own some EF-s glass that I wouldn't trade for anything!


I think everyone is forgetting that Canon APS-C, APS-H and full frame (35mm equivalent) sensors exist today for two reasons.

1) They correspond to existing film formats, making the switch from film to digital easier for those doing so. The logic behind Canon using these formats in digital sensors is clear.

2) The different sensors have different costs involved in production allowing Canon could offer budget minded entry level cameras ranging to the high performance professional cameras. APS-C sensors cost much less to produce than an equivalent MP full frame sensor!

Am I unhappy that the different formats exist? NO! They all offer something the other cannot. I use my 7D just as much as my 5DII! It all depends on what I want to shoot. I still throw my T1i (with my EF-s 60mm 2.8 macro) in my backpack when I want a throw-and-go camera that will consistently take awesome shots even though I have a sweet full frame 5DII to use whenever I need it! Now, I COULD throw my EF 100mm 2.8 macro on my 5DII, but the DOF (and sharpness, and ease of use) on the T1i/60mm is unmatched.

Now, will cameras exist one day that are all full frame? Maybe. Will Canon develop medium format digital sensors? That's very likely. There will be no end to the megapixel race as well as to the size of the sensor. (http://news.yahoo.com/supercameras-could-capture-never-seen-detail-171825569.html) For now, we have what we have.


I upgraded from a 50D to a 7D, because I felt the 60D wasn't an upgrade for my type of shooting.

When I had to upgrade from my 40D, the 60D wasn't even worth looking at in MO. I went straight for the 7!!!


or xxxxD disapear / become mirrorless APS-C

xxxD entry level DSLR

xxD or xD top level APS-C doesnt matter there can be only 1

if xxD is the top APS-C then they might get creative with the
xD and make it a Premium sports / wildlife body say maybe something along the lines of
a 1Dmk4 in a 5Dmk3 body :P

True... I would have to agree with this.


I think you guys are forgetting something in your "thoughts" about future cameras.

The XXXXD is Canon's entry level DSLR now, so there is no reason for the Rebel class to be classed as an entry level DSLR anymore and the features seen on the new T4i equals some found on the 60D/7D and proves my point that Canon is moving that direction.

With canons new mirrorless entry soon and 4 APS-C cameras in the line up, there is going to be a lot of competition for sales.

The recent "downgrading" of the XXD line so as to NOT compete with the 7D makes me think that the merging of the XXD line and XD line is in the works. Again why would they downgrade the line just to bring it back as the flagship APS-C body and get rid of the XD line? The success of the 7D was extremely impressive so why wouldn't Canon run with it in the next upgrade to the Canon lineup?

The XXXXD line is the entry level
The XXXD line is the mid-level
The XD line is the flagship APS-C

That leaves room for a mirrorless interchangeable camera AND plenty of room for a entry level FF as well as a high performance APS-H. But Canon is going to do whatever they want to do and hopefully soon we will find out who is right and who is wrong.

Who cares what Nikon is doing. The recent features and price of the 5DIII and 1DX prove that Canon isn't "worried" about Nikon's cheap camera offerings. Also Nikon is going the route of high MP/low cost cameras and Canon is sticking with mostly 18MP offerings and a higher price. I think Canon is only worried about doing things their own thing right now.


Sorry. When I said "flagship" in terms of the 7D, I was simply meaning Canon's flagship APS-C camera.

Didn't mean to get everyone in a tussle.

I do beg your pardon I read

Then please don't make something out of what I said that wasn't there. I never said one was "stuck" into APS-C cameras. I simply said that an upgrade has to be justified (for whatever reason) for a person to fork out high $$$ to do so.


as meaning that 7D users had no reason to upgrade to anything other than APS-C and that sensor changes (sic to APS-H/FF) were just a marketing ploy

Yup. Otherwise why would Canon make lenses NOT compatible with FF bodies???

Why not just make ONE size sensor for ALL of your cameras, regardless of entry level or professional??? Come on...


The downgrade of the XXD line (I.E. 60D... R.I.P. XXD line... :( ) and the upgrade of the Rebel line tells me that the XXD line will soon pass like the cassette tape and Beta video tape player. :) (Dodo bird, Dinosaurs... you get the idea) I mean come on, WHY would Canon make the T4i so close to the 60D in features if that wasn't the plan? That is one HUGE jump for the lowely "Rebel" line, really.

The XD (7D) body was meant to be a test bed for the features found in the 5DIII, 1DX and other future cameras and was DESIGNED AND MARKETED to be the flagship APS-C camera.

Now, tell me WHY Canon would "upgrade" a dying, "downgraded" XXD class body in favor of dropping it's current flagship XD line? (7D)

The 7D upgrade (7DII) WILL remain APS-C AND the flagship camera body, you can bank on it.


I hate quoting myself, but this is why I feel the way I do about any 7D replacement. (And why the XXD line will be merged into the XD line).


I think the logical conclusion to what you are saying is that if you buy APS-C then you are locked into it for life??

That isn't what I said, please reread my post.

I am simply looking from a MARKETING standpoint from Canon.. Why? They are the ones making the darn thing and then have to sell it to us!!!

An upgrade from one camera body to another HAS to make sense. A person who owns a APS-C camera will justify the costs to FF (or any camera body that ONLY uses EF lenses), IF they NEED the upgrade.

Otherwise, a person will stick to WHAT THEY ALREADY HAVE AND CAN USE WITH THE HARDWARE THEY ALREADY OWN. Times are getting hard, extra money for high performance cameras (esp entry-level ones) is becomming hard to come by. Canon has to make decisions that make sense to future camera buyers AND people who already own cameras and Canon NEEDS them to upgrade, to buy current stock!

Don't know about you, but I work hard for my money and I am only willing to upgrade something if it works with what I already have OR the increased cost(s) are justified by my NEED.

A person who only uses their camera now and then will look at an upgrade differently than someone who makes MONEY with their camera. Unfortunately, the 7D is still aimed at "semi-pros"  and mainstream users, not professionals. The 7D does not fall under the "professional" catagory, even though it is one hell of a camera.


The replacement for the 7D could be any of the 3 sensor types - there are valid arguments for them all

True, BUT like I have suggested already. Canon ALREADY has 7D owners who ALREADY have some EF-s lenses. The 7D upgrade will STILL use EF-s (APS-C), period. Otherwise what's the point of an upgrade? That is simple marketing, nothing more, nothing less.

The 1Ds line and 1D line was a logical merge even though one was APS-H. Why? Becuase BOTH bodies only use EF lenses! Nothing for a current 1Ds or 1D owner to LOOSE if they upgraded to the 1DX! Each camera (I.E. XXD, XD, XXXD...etc) is marketed to a certain group and Canon will continue to market each camera body to that group and BUDGET!

It's easy to justify a camera body upgrade IF it uses your current hardware, right? Otherwise there would have to be a SERIOUS NEED to upgrade a camera body if suddenly half of your equipment would not work with it!!! The 7D was designed to be the flagship APS-C camera and no one can give me a good reason to believe why Canon will dump the current flagship XD line in favor of a new flagship XXD line they just DOWNGRADED last year in the form of the 60D!


I'm sure this has been said but even if Nikon's were half the price they are now, I still wouldn't shoot with them.

Canon makes one hell of a camera and the market sales prove it. I see 2 to 1 of Canon's over other bodies. (usually more!) Nikon has to sell cheap cameras to get people to buy them.


Make the 70d a 7dii-equivalent, but price it a few hundred less than the FF entry level camera, and everybody is happy (including Canon since they won't have two cameras at the same price competing for sales).

Won't happen. The 60D has become the "joke" of the Canon EOS bodies (I have seen it being called "The Rebel that should have been") compared to features found on previous XXD bodies. (What? The 30D had 5 fps as well... wait, at least the 30D had a metal body...) Tell me what other Canon EOS body was DOWNGRADED and then UPGRADED to the flagship body.

Like I have said, the 7D was designed and marketed as the FLAGSHIP APS-C camera body and will remain so. Can anyone give me a reasonable reason why the 7D replacement (and continue the 7D name) will not continue this tradition?? Oh and what marketing strategy are you basing your logic on? Remember, marketing (sales based on previous bodies) is the only thing Canon will be concerned with when they make a APS-C replacement and if you don't believe me, then you going to be sadly dissapointed with your prediction(s).

The 60D was "downgraded" so AS NOT TO DIRECTLY COMPETE with the 7D. Fact, fact, fact... :D

So now why would the so called "future" 70D compete with the 7D OR it's replacement? Based on history, the 70D should be, "feature-wise" somewhere in the lines of the 40D or XSi.... Makes sense to me. :) I mean why not? The new T4i is darn near a 60D in a slightly smaller body, so where does that leave the 70D? 7D status? They already have a 7D status camera body, THE 7D!!!


I dont care what its called but I would like to see a high end APS-H sensor equiped camera that is a 5D form factor.

I don't think the APS-H is "dead" as others would think. I would believe that Canon will produce a APS-H high performace camera body in the next year or so, based on the 120MP APS-H prototype sensor they made a year ago. :D


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