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Messages - x-vision

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346

With the Sony sensors and the d800 release price, it seems Nikon wants to attack Canon and not just go along with them, and a budget ff body might be the way to throw down the gauntlet.

I think that Nikon and Canon are just targeting different crowds with their new offerings.

Canon seems to be targeting pros and the video/film crowd with the 5DIII. Hence the high price:
Pros will pay anyway and the video/film crowd supposedly has deep pockets. 

Nikon, on the other hand, has pros and photo-enthusiasts in mind with the D800.
And the rumored D600 will obviously be targeted squarely at enthusiasts.
Thus, the lower prices - especially for the rumored D600.

The question is, what happens if the video/film crowd doesn't line up to buy the 5DIII as they did for the 5DII?

347
This is why the D800 is such a game-changer. It establishes a totally new price-structure for higher-end DSLRs. 

+1000

Quote
New structure:
* Nikon D4/Canon 1D X - flagship specialist journalism/sports camera, max speed, limited resolution - USD/€ 6,000
* Nikon D800 - max. resolution, fully featured, except speed: USD/€ 2,900
* Nikon D600 - second-tier FF-model, less resolutuon, features scaled back: USD/€ 1,500-1,700  2,000

Canon has failed to adequately repond to this and will undoubtedly pay the price in market share.

My thoughts exactly - except that the D600 will be USD/€ 2,000.

I also think that Canon is failing to respond adequately to the current market trends .. for now.
They will have to, though.

Canon won't get much help from the film/video crowd this time around.
So, they will have no option but to drop the 5DIII price in order to make it attractive to photo-enthusiasts.

Patience, padawan, patience  8).

348
Round 5D3's price tag 1000$ down and we all will agree that it's an amazing camera in every respect.

Exactly.

At $2500, the 5DIII will start being perceived as the best camera Canon has ever made ;).

The thing is, this is exactly what Canon needs to do ... ASAP.

Because no, the D600 will not be DX.

It will be a FF camera priced at $1999 that will kill (at least) two birds with one stone:
- the 5DIII at its current price
- any hope that Canon might have to charge more than $1500 for the 7DII (if there's a 7DII)

Can't wait for the D600 to get released. Go Nikon!

349
To me it feels a bit as if BMW would all of sudden charge more for a face-lifted 2012 5-series ...

My sentiments exactly.

350
Why can't people consider the fact that The 5D3 isn't over-priced, but that Nikon is taking a huge hit financially in reducing their price in hopes of taking some of the market back?

Well, in that case I wish Canon would take a financial hit too.

Why should I be overpaying - so that Canon can make more money off me???
How is that a good deal for me, the buyer.

351
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: May 04, 2012, 01:46:22 PM »
but keeping the 7D in the 1.6x prosumer space has been wildly succesful so I would'nt expect Canon to merge 7D and 70D lines if they believe the market will bear it

Yes, has been.
Before the D7000 showed consumers what they can have for $1200.
Also, at a time when only the 1-series cameras had an advanced AF system and other advanced features.

Things are different now.

352
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: May 04, 2012, 12:24:10 PM »
It has been arguably very succesful for prosumers, but it doesn't have the feature set required for a truely pro level wildlife body.  given the choice, I would gladly take a 1D4 over a 7D :D

And herein lies the problem with the 7D:
It's not a true pro camera that appeals to pros and commands a higher price.
At the same time, it's a bit pricey for consumers, compared to the very competent D7000, for example.

So, the 7D market right now is mostly consumers willing to pay a premium.
This market is limited, though, and if Canon had a D7000-equivalent, it would all but disappear.
This is exactly what happened with the D300s market after Nikon released the D7000.

Looking forward, Canon either needs to make the 7DII a true pro body or move the 7DII downmarket.

These days all pro cameras are FF, so making the 7DII a true pro body means making it a FF camera.
If this happens, it's unlikely that the 7D moniker will be kept, though.
And if moved downmarket, the 7DII won't be called 7D either, since the next level down is the xxD series.

So, there you have it.
The 7DII will either be a FF camera (unlikely) or it won't be called the 7DII but the 70D.


353
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 12, 2012, 10:15:35 PM »
The 5D Mark III is $3,500 - that creates plenty of pricing room for a lesser, but still great, model at a fair price with a smaller sensor.

Room - yes. Market - maybe not. Of course the 5d3 will drop some (Nikon D800 anyone?), so let's assume $3000. I don't think Canon marketing divides the price scale into equal pieces and puts out a model for each of them, but they'll look for customer groups like "entry level dslr" xxxd, "amateur/pro on a budget" xxd, "full frame entry" 5d2/successor, "rich amateur or pro that doesn't need the 1dx" 5d3. Where's the 7d2 in this?

+1000.

354
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 08, 2012, 02:51:21 PM »
Nobody ( here on this thread ) have taked  in consideration the Nikon D300S replacement.
There's increasing chatter in the Nikon camp that the D400 will be full-frame, not DX.
The speculation is that the D400 will have a 24mp FF sensor and will be sold for less than $2500 (in the US).

Also, Nikon just obtained a patent for a 24-70mm f/3.5-4.5 lens.
As per NikonRumors.com, this lens only makes sense as a part of a "cheap" full frame body kit.
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/04/06/nikon-filed-a-patent-for-a-24-70mm-f3-5-4-5-full-frame-lens.aspx

If the D400 is indeed FF and is priced around the $2500 mark, things will get very interesting for both the 5DIII and the 70D/7DII  8).

355
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 03, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »
The 5D Mark II will be phased out in time and the if the 7D was not upgraded you would have a crater between the $900 60D APS-C and the $3,500 5D Mark III.

This assumes that the xxD line will stay at $900.

But the 60D was announced at $1100 and in terms of specs was slotted nicely between the 7D and the Rebels.
So, it's obvious that Canon wanted to charge more for the 60D.

If the 70D is announced at $1300-1500 and the 5DIII drops below $3000, the pricing gap between the two is not going to be that large.

In fact, it would be the exact same gap that existed between the 20/30D and the original 5D back in the 2005-2007 period.

356
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon 7Dmk2 any rumors??
« on: April 03, 2012, 11:54:19 AM »
The 5D3 is basically a full frame sensor in a 7D box. It's the full frame 7D that lots of people pleaded for. Something in the ~$2000 price range would need lower build quality. We already have that: the 5D2.

Exactly.

The rumor is that the 5DII will remain in production untill this fall.
So, at least through the holiday season this year, Canon will have an "entry level" FF camera (5DII) and an advanced FF camera (5DIII).

After that, the 5DIII price will drop below $3000 and become more affordable.
At the same time, a new 70D at $1300-1500 will replace both the 60D and 7D.
No room for a 7DII in the lineup, IMO.


357
I'm somewhat puzzled by Nikon's approach to pricing of the D800. I'd really like to know how they kept it at that price when it should have gone up.

I suspect they're doing one of two things:
1) selling with a really really low margin
2) using it as a loss leader for more lens sales where they turn a profit
... both of these are to try and (re)gain market presence that they lost to Canon with the 5D Mark II.

The 5DIII will very likely drop to $3000 as early as this fall, thus matching the D800 in price.

When this happens, do you think:
1) Canon will be selling the 5DIII with a really low margin
2) The 5DIII will be a loss leader
3) Even at $3000, Canon will still make a hefty profit

If you think the correct answer is 3), why do you feel 1) and 2) apply to Nikon but not Canon ??? ?
Also, do you think the 5DII, currently selling for $2200, is a loss leader for Canon?

358
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon smarter than we think
« on: March 29, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.
Its overpaying when a comparable camera is available for less.

It's overpaying when perceived value does not match the price tag.

359
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon smarter than we think
« on: March 29, 2012, 03:00:45 PM »
Interesting that the ones who can't afford the camera seem to be the ones who have the strongest business advice for Canon.

There's a difference between "affording" and "overpaying".
Smart buyers hate overpaying ;D.

360
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon smarter than we think
« on: March 29, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »
Interesting thought that only pros would buy a 5DIII - I know 3 people with 5DIII and none of those are pros - so what is that presumption based on?

Hehe. You seem to be missing my point ... while at the same time confirming it  ;D.

As I said in my post, pros have never been the core market of the 5D series.
The 3 non-pros you know that bought the 5DIII are just another confirmation of that.

The thing is, as the price increases, the ratio of pro vs non-pro buyers increases too.

Non-pro buyers will still account for a large part of the of 5DIII sales.
However, pro buyers will now constitute a larger percentage of the total 5DIII sales compared to the 5DII (well, until the price drops, of course).

From that perspective, Canon did reposition the 5DIII as more of a pro camera compared to the 5DII.

I guess the expression "strictly for pros" is incorrect, though. I stand corrected.
There will be hobbyists buying the $6.8K 1DX camera and $14K 800/5.6L lens.
So, technically, non of these products is "strictly for pros". Same for the 5DIII.
My bad for hurting the feelings of non-pros with $3.5K of disposable income  ;D ;D.

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