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Messages - Aglet

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436
Consistent uniform 'noise' patterns point to data. 

noise patterns = BAD ELECTRONICS, poor design, noisy power supply circuits casting their noise into the sensor signal.  Pretty much every Canon DSLR suffers from this to varying degrees.
Horizontal banding especially seems to be a result of a dirty power supply design.
Vertical banding is an inherent sensor readout strategy flaw, one that Sony Exmor design has vastly improved upon.

As for when this all happened.. not with the D800, but back with the D90 .. Nikon started to really lose pattern noise and gain DR.

437
If new entry FF has all the capabilities of 5d2 + 5d3 sensor + AF somewhere between 5d2 and 5d3, then I'd like to see this an entry level FF at 2000$. I'm just afraid it would cost 2500$ and less features than 5d2 has. If there is only a better sensor, then I'm asking who this camera would be for?

ME!

I'd LOVE a better sensor, CHEAP FF that gives me great IQ at low ISO and not a lot of features I don't need.
I don't even need the weather sealing, all I really want from it is low noise and lots of dynamic range and body sturdy enough to sit on a tripod with a heavy lens on it.

I've made excellent images with my 5D2 as long as the scene didn't have a lot of dark areas that needed to be pushed up.  I'd really like to have a FF Canon that no longer gives me that "through a screen-door" look for the deep shadow areas.  Even 60D build quality (but with tactile buttons please!) would be perfectly fine. And an articulating display would be a real bonus.

If Canon provides this I'd consider selling one of my D800s because I'd love to keep using some of the great EF glass I have and adding some wide T&S ones too.

When doing "slow" photography my favorite camera is the simplest one that can do the job.  I actually really like my 40D or old Rebels like the XSi.  They have all the features I NEED to make the shot without any interface clutter.
I'm really enjoying the IQ of my new Nikons, they blow away my Canons for landscapery, but I miss the simplicity of Canon's user interface.
A $2k FF with a better sensor than the 5D3 or 1Dx, with even fewer features than a Rebel... I'll take TWO please.

438
EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?
« on: July 19, 2012, 01:27:29 AM »
So the best option for you would be a camera with ISO 50-800. It could be a niche market anyway.

yes, a real ISO 50 to 800 would be just ducky! :)

Not so niche a market tho, mainstream product in the last year has MET my requirements in this area. I merely lament it's not by the mfr that I've supported almost exclusively with my purchases for the last 30-some years.

Whether Canon can catch up or surpass with their own in-house sensor tech, or whether they make like recent Apple and package leading edge tech from other component mfrs, wrapped in their own overall design and interface, does not matter to me.

I just want a camera that's as easy to use as Canon's have always been to me, and also supply the kind of image quality I've been craving for years and have only just now experienced by using competitors' products.

I'd rather sell my Nik gear and use Can equipment than the other way around, i still feel some brand loyalty.  But it's fading fast; I'm getting too old to be patient enough to wait.  I only wish I'd have payed more attention back when the D90 came out... The first DSLR I know of with a significant improvement in dark noise pattern reduction.


439
Portrait / Re: Artsy images (Semi NSFW)
« on: July 19, 2012, 01:01:43 AM »
I like them.

I'm been working up some ideas in my head for some artsy shots this winter too.
Hmmm...  I think your models are cuter than mine...

440
EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?
« on: July 18, 2012, 03:25:46 AM »
I've already done it. Works fine for me. 8)

Maybe you got lucky and selected a clean 7D, they do exist.
Run of the mill ones aren't so good.

But also, lets' not see a high contrast B&W shot which can reduce the effect of (primarily) red channel noise.  I use B&W to hide a noisy shot too.  ;)


Lucky you. So what's your answer to the question in topic?

My answer is to buy what works and my advice to Canon is to develop better sensor tech on their own or license it from the competition. And start supplying it to us FAST!
I'd love to be able to use my Canon glass and bodies instead of carrying a "mixed bag" of gear but I've been disappointed by banding noise on all of my Canon bodies since I went digital with a 40D.  At the time it was a hair better than the comparable but upscale D300.  40D is still my preferred camera in some ways but I quickly discovered its limits and have been repeatedly disappointed with low ISO performance of every subsequent Canon body I've bought since (about 15 of them). 

Biggest letdowns were my 5D2 and 7D.  For that kind of money, those cameras should not have more banding than a darn Rebel or a compact like the G11 or G12.  They're no longer image quality leaders at the low ISO end of the spectrum. :(

I was just about to spring for some T&S glass from Canon but now I'm hesitant.  Those lenses on the 5D would compose some stuff for me just how I want it.  But when I crank the file I won't be happy with the results, and, after seeing what my D800 and D5100 can do, I really can't bring myself to drop nearly $5k on a pair of lenses only to be compromised by mediocre sensor performance.  I want either Canon to improve their bodies or Nikon (or some 3rd party) to make better wide T&S glass.

Fortunately I might be able to afford to hold off dumping much of my Canon kit for a while and see what happens over the next year.


As an alternate gripe, I still find myself, let's say 'amused,'  at those whose opinion of DxOmark's results are disparaging to DxO or the Nikon cameras which attained the high marks they doubt.
Some of us are actually using camera systems from both manufacturers, and pushing the raw files to their limits at times to create the images we want.  The differences noted by DxOmark ARE REAL and they CAN show up in everyday shooting.  It seems many people don't know where to look for the flaws or don't care if they see them.
When these same image files are pushed the difference becomes quickly apparent which sensor technology is superior for low ISO dynamic range.

I don't shoot weddings, nightclubs or motorsports after sunset, so high ISO performance, as impressive as its recent improvements in the 5D3 and 1Dx may be, are only one side of the argument.

Many of us shoot in SUNLIGHT.  Harsh, contrasty and uncontrollable for all but intimate settings.  Under these circumstances, the extremes of shadow and light are captured, compressed and presented as a final image far better, IMO, by sensors in recent Nikon cameras than by sensors in any Canon DSLR.

As such, Canon has an option to listen to the complaints of consumers of their products.  Should they try to satisfy these demands for better low ISO performance, their engineering branch is going to have to work very hard to catch up to the competition in this aspect.

Call or email Canon and let them know your opinion on this if it matters enough.
I have.

441
EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?
« on: July 18, 2012, 03:06:08 AM »
Any one want to try commenting on the DR, high iso capabilities etc of a potential FF x-trans CMOS sensor?

I still haven't had my hands on the latest one to test but even Fuji's previous generation X cam sensor was outperforming Canon in some areas of eliminating noise.
Non-Nayer CFA is also an interesting concept, not yet sure how well it works.

442
EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?
« on: July 18, 2012, 02:54:02 AM »
The banding that only shows up in third party RAW converters, and not DPP?
That banding?

Banding shows up in DPP too, it's where I first found it and then when to 3rd party software to help reduce the problem.

443
EOS Bodies / Re: Should/can Canon keep making its own sensors?
« on: July 17, 2012, 12:21:42 PM »
Meh, I've shot ISO 3200 on the 7D, pushed 2 stops in the blacks and cropped to my tastes w/o any worries. Noise? Sure. Loss of detail? Sure. So what? Some of the best photographs aren't technically perfect.

HAHA!  sure, when the image is all noise at high ISO, you can't make much of a comparison.

Try this with your 7D; take a shot at ISO 100-400, push it 2 stops and see how much shadow banding you have now.  With most copies of the 7D I've seen, it's worse than doing this at hi ISO.

I'm now using a D800 for landscape type shots; it blows away my 5D2 so bad it's pitiful.  I've got D800 images where I can bring up the detail of charcoal, in the shade, in a shot taken in full sunlight while holding complete detail in clouds.  An image like this MUST be post-processed to look "realistic" otherwise it's very dark.  This requires lifting the shadows a LOT, even the midtones must be raised considerably.

This is something no Canon I've used yet is capable of without prodigious banding and noise in the shadow areas rendering the image unusable for how I want to present it.

In photos covering extreme ranges of lighting, there's no substitute for superior sensor technology that, regrettably, Canon does not currently provide.  I've yet to see what the 1DX can do but I'm not waiting for it, I'm getting fantastic images with the competitor's products where I could not get them before without having to resort to bracketing and laborious PP work for mediocre results.

444
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Canon 50D vs 7D
« on: July 15, 2012, 02:30:18 AM »
I use 50D and 7D (& 40D)

- 7D's noise structure is finer textured at higher ISO but at low ISO may have strong vertical shadow banding if you push your exposure in post. (My 7D really annoys me in this area and I hope the v2 firmware can address the problem)

- 50D does not have a strong vertical banding problem at low ISO like the 7D but has overall higher blotchy red noise at all ISO which can become quite noticeable if you don't use a raw converter with good noise reduction

- 7D's AF system is pretty good and adaptable for lots of purposes, you may find it an advantage for wildlife and birds-in-flight shooting.  It's no panacea but it can improve your keeper rate with a given lens.
Worth reading the manual on how to use it and then experiment with it to familiarize yourself to the differences compared to 50D/40D

- 7D's faster shooting rate can provide an extra few shots/second which might be worthwhile for birding or other animal action.

Overall, I'd say the 7D is a noticeable step up from the 50D.  If it's worthwhile to you depends on if you can justify the added cost and weigh that against whatever Canon may bring out next for a high performance APS-C camera.  Consider that the 7D is nearly 3 years old already, it's about time for something of an upgrade - but in this case that may just be the new v2 firmware that's coming (August?) which unlocks more of the potential of the hardware already inside it.  That may buy Canon another year to develop something better for a 7D replacement since they're feeling the heat from the competition.

You have some decent glass already, if it's optically up to what you need then a body upgrade may be the next hardware item to wring out more imaging performance.  Honing one's photography skills, especially when it comes to wildlife, is also a prime investment.

445
I've only shot a couple thousand images with my new Nikons so far but I can already form some strong subjective opinions about using them.

I've added (even more) Nikon gear to my collection and find I'm using it more often than Canon for the picky stuff I like to shoot. A D800 with old Nikkor MF primes gives me high detail shots I can process however I like without the dreadful red channel noise in the shadows that plagues Canon cameras.  This camera has the kind of features I want when working on macros, landscape or other slow-paced shooting.  An 800e is on the way and I'm wondering if I'll keep the standard D800 body or sell it.

2 D5100s have also taken over from most of my crop sensor Canons for similar slower paced work because, like the D800, their low ISO IQ blows the Canon results out of the water in difficult HDR scenes.  Some decent glass on them and they also do great IQ landscapes for small to moderate size prints.

I still like using my Canons for low HDR scenes, controlled lighting shoots where shadows aren't an issue and shooting when people are the subjects; possibly because I'm just still more familiar with being able to use the Canon gear very quickly in changing situations.  I also still prefer the "look" of Canon images and processing with DPP when it comes to skin tones and WB altho there's nothing stopping me from making custom color processing for the Nikons to match.  It's just easier for me to use the best camera for the scene and subject.

I'm finding overall handling of the D800 far superior to the older 5D2.  If I had the 5D3 this could be a different outcome but I didn't buy a 5D3 because I needed cameras with excellent low ISO performance, not more of the same IQ with features I wouldn't utilize.

One other thing I prefer over Canon equipment too.  Sensor dust is virtually a non-issue so far on my Nikon bodies.  They collect as much or more dust than than Canons, it seems, if you look at the AA filter surface.  But the dust is just not showing up on the images to the same extent as it does on my Canon cameras.  I think this may be because of the difference in spacing between the front AA filter surface and the sensor surface between the 2 company's products. 
The net effect is I can swap lenses much more comfortably on the Nikons without worrying I'm going to get a different pattern of sensor dust I'll have to PP out later.  That translates to taking few cameras and more lenses on a shoot instead of my usual tactic of dedicating a Canon body to a specific lens and leaving it attached so as not to have to hassle with sensor dust.
I can also stop-down somewhat farther for deeper DoF without worrying I'll be casting dust shadows on the sensor. 
My more recent Canon bodies, like the 7D and newer, don't suffer from sensor dust issues as badly as the older ones did but I find the Nikons have given me even fewer issues.

Once vexing thing I found about the D5100s tho, 4 out of 5 bodies I tested have an issue where their sensor and viewfinders are a bit rotated with respect to each other.  If I align a horizontal line across the outer AF points in the viewfinder, the resulting image is tilted CW nearly 1 degree! I don't like having to remember to recompose a shot to take this into account.  I'll likely be sending one of them in to Nikon to see if they can correct it.  Close examination of the optical components of the camera have not shown any one big "Ah-hah!" culprit but possibly minor misalignment of the sensor and the main mirror contributing to the overall tilt.

If I'm running out the door in a hurry tho, I still prefer to grab my Canon 60D with the 15-85mm zoom as an excellent all-rounder with great IQ and handling for quick and casual shooting.  Its metering and WB are nearly faultless; I can leave it on Evaluative and Auto and rarely have to tweak it in post. And its battery life is also fantastic, I can shoot all day unless I'm using live-view a lot.  Does a decent job of video too.

It's nice to have the options.  If I had to keep just ONE camera tho, no longer is it much of a contest.  D800 does most of what -I- need better than any DSLR I've used before.

YOUR mileage may vary.

446
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Non Genuine LP-E6
« on: July 03, 2012, 02:18:03 PM »
Oh and btw I did see the USPS is banning international shipment of LI-ion batteries after blaming two fatal cargo plane crashes on it since 2005. But I am skeptical both of that analysis and the motivations. I'm not sure they have real evidence what started fires on those planes. And why wouldn't we then ban it domestically too, planes are OK if they fall on our houses?


Transportation safety investigations are pretty darn thorough when it comes to investigating causes of an aircraft crash.
Also, if you've never seen the ferocity of a lithium battery fire, you may want to check it out.  Likely a few posted on youtube.
Larger Li batteries contain enough energy to easily burn/melt their way thru the thinner metals of an aircraft. Altho it's unlikely they'd cause a structural failure, it's entirely possibly they could cause a control problem either by directly damaging control systems or generating enough smoke to incapacitate a crew by igniting other materials in the cargo section, often lots of paper and wood crates/pallets in there.


here's a quick one:

the little CR123 Li battery, often used in photo accessories makes like a tiny incendiary when damaged

www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG_UuPmLO1c Small | Large


just search for "lithium fire" for more


I can imagine this shipping ban as being essentially an import tariff on Chinese electronics. Taking the postal service out of the delivery equation may be protectionist for US-based retailers (who will buy from distributors using bulk shipping containers) over those guys on ebay from Shenzen who mail you stuff cheaply. That's what that ban may be about, it was just something the gov't could come up with that the Chinese couldn't nail them for. (Then getting taken seriously and scaring people into carrying on their batteries rather than checking them in the hold? Good grief.  :-\)


agreed, it does effect an indirect import tariff of sorts on those products.

447
I rarely agree with surveys like this for a variety of reasons but J.D. Powers one makes for an interesting perspective.

www.jdpower.com/content/press-release/RoPDeNH/2012-digital-single-lens-reflex-camera-online-buyer-report.htm

you can download the PDF press release from above link but it's the same content as the web page

some points:

- prices up about $350 from last year
- Pentax, Nikon, and Canon are the top 3, in that order, and very close in their scores
- cameras were rated on 5 areas; picture quality, durability/reliability, features, ease of operation and speed

Only thing I can take away from this is the Pentax K5, with its pile of incredible features and best image quality of any APS-C sensor camera, has really pleased its purchasers.  If only they had some really good performing glass that I knew about I'd consider adding one of them to my collection.

I doubt the results will stir any response from Canon or Nikon but likely puts a smile on the marketing guys at Ricoh/Pentax.  I still haven't seen any real advertising from them yet, despite their intent to gain mindshare in the north american marketplace.  Maybe this will spur them on.

448
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Non Genuine LP-E6
« on: July 01, 2012, 03:07:19 AM »
Never put them in checked luggage, put them in the passenger cabin where there is a chance to put out any fire that starts.  They do not need oxygen to burn, so fire extinguishers in the cargo compartment are of no help.
 
The biggest issue is a damaged battery or mis manufactured one that will short out when bumped at just the right point.  QA is a huge part of this, and its often non existent in the cheapies.
 
USPS now makes it illegail to send one in international mail, or to send equipment containing a li-on battery.


That's good advice but also be aware that putting out a secondary fire, started by a Li battery, is often easy enough with a conventional A-B class extinguisher. Putting out a primary Li-fire itself requires a very special and expensive type of extinguisher that uses another reactive ingredient to quench the reactive Li. (I think it may be a copper content material)
However, a Li-ion fire vs a Li-metal fire is a different monster, the latter being much more difficult to put out, AFAIK.  Most of our toys run on some formula of rechargeable Li-ion chemistry.  Primary Li cells may be the more problematic to extinguish in case of failure.
Primary Li batteries are the kind that are non-rechargeable, like CR-123 and other CRxxxx cells often used in photographic devices. These do have a pretty good safety history though.

you can find lots of relevant info on wikipedia too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery

449
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Non Genuine LP-E6
« on: July 01, 2012, 02:48:32 AM »
I haven't tested batteries for safety.
I HAVE tested batteries for capacity.

Altho many generic batteries will work decently, some better than others, a few nearly as good as an OEM one.

What I've found is:
- most of the generics will not last as long as an OEM battery, either in capacity or in calendar life.  Many fail to provide useful capacity after only a year or 2 of light use. Some will last nearly as well as OEM.
- many of the generics overstate their actual mAh capacity.  I've tested some new batteries and found their actual capacity to be less than half what they claimed they were.  You can only put so much energy into a given volume when using a similar cell structure.
- some generics I got from eBay last year were not even using metal-canned Li-ion cells but resorted to using cheap Li-polymer cells.  You can tell by how little they weigh compared to a "real" battery.  They worked.. for about 10 charge-discharge cycles.

You CAN find good generic product out there but there's also a LOT of garbage produced by unscrupulous mfrs.

Sharing info on brands and sources on a forum like this is a good alternative to everyone experimenting.

I no longer remember the name but there was an eBay seller, based in ON, that provided some good quality batteries that fit and work very well.  One I got my my G11 is still working as well as the OEM one 2 years later and some BP-511 types are also performing long after other generics have become junk-drawer filler.
It's still a gamble as to whether the source he gets them from is still producing at comparable quality or whether you roll the dice again.  You get what you pay for most times; sometimes you get better than expected, sometimes not.

450
Third Party Manufacturers / Re: Non Genuine LP-E6
« on: June 30, 2012, 04:03:37 PM »
Lithium batteries, fully charged at room temperature, then cooled to much lower than room temperature, which COULD happen within an aircraft cargo hold, CAN exceed their safe maximum voltage and MAY fail in a dangerously catastrophic way.

So, probably better to (air) travel with your lithium ion batteries only half charged or less.

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