July 29, 2014, 03:54:00 PM

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Messages - Don Haines

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Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: Today at 02:45:52 PM »
I've no doubt that the D800 and D810 are good for landscape work - having all those extra megapixels, and I don't think anyone here disputes that Nikon is better at base ISO (I only know this from reading this forum). They may well be the best full frame cameras for this purpose, I don't know (I don't do much landscape work).

But to claim Canon is bad at ISO 100 is hyperbole. And to claim the 5D3 is 'painterly' at ISO 800 (or just over) is... perplexing. It's a subjective term of course. But the raw files look good much higher than that - depending on what and how you shoot. I find bird photos can look okay up to ISO 6400-8000 - using the technique of slightly overexposing and then reducing the brightness later (to reduce shadow noise) - and I'm very happy with results at ISO 3200.

As for the shots linked to, I loved the second one, but the one with the jetty was... not to my taste. That's fine, it's stylistic, and I'm happy with people who love their gear. But to trash other people's choices based on that opinion is unwise. After all, if the D800 was so obviously superior, why did it not sell so well (again, something I've seen repeated here often).
Whatever you go for now is way better than just a few years ago... Anyone want to buy my Olympus E-300? ISO 400 was as high as you would shoot at, 800 was tearful, and now a GoPro takes better quality stills.....

I am currently shooting with a 60D... ANY Canon/Nikon/Sony/Panasonic/Olympus DSLR or mirrorless out now beats it for IQ, yet somehow I keep getting great pictures with it......

Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: Today at 12:29:44 PM »
Found this fellow on a hike in CO.

well done! I like how you have the shot framed with the scalloping of the ice behind and the blue of the ice below.

Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: Today at 11:43:50 AM »

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: Today at 10:33:09 AM »
You realize this argument will be pointless when the 7D2 comes out with the 120Mpixel sensor, ISO 204,800, and 18 stops of dynamic range.... :)

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: Today at 07:27:46 AM »
I'm a long time reader, first time poster, but I have to address Neuro here.

I had the Canon D60, the D400, the 5D Mk1, 2, and the 3 for about 2 months till I decided that it was a huge disappointment after waiting 3 years for the successor to the wonderful Mk2.

I went to the D800 and spent 12 grand switching, and I never looked back. Crop modes, clean shadows and highlights and DR were the main attractions.

Images from my D800 look like drum scans from MF/LF film, and that's the first time I'd seen a digital camera hit that goal.

Neuro is a god here, and he's an intelligent guy, of that there is no mistake, but when it comes to the reality between Canon and everyone else, he abandons his normally cogent posts and reverts to fan boy mode.

I loved my Canon gear, and up until 2012 it was the best gear I could buy for my business without going MF.

The D800 killed anything Canon had as far as pure IQ went with the D800.

Is that even up for debate now as I await my D810 to arrive? Only here it seems.

I've found in 2 years of D800 use that DXO scores for the sensors are pretty much on the money from what I've observed by taking tens of thousand of Canon and Nikon photos.

The Mk2 sensor, that is maybe half my folio (www.deanagar.com.au) is scored accurately. It was great for 2008, no question. I loved that camera.

The DXO score for the D800 I'd have to agree with, as i would with the Mk3 which I had for a depressing 2 months when it was released. Soft video and the same old read noise that Canon can’t get rid of.

Ergonomically it was the best camera I'd ever owned, but IQ is what I'm after and I can take the loss of a rate button and, camera setting memories and nice menus to get the elusive film level IQ of the D800.

It makes the Mk2 and Mk3 look very average, and sometimes downright poor. Read noise, lack of recoverable highlights and shadows, and poor 100ISO performance are lacking in the Canon sensors.

Is there anyone on the planet that doesn't accept that as fact, except many people on here?

The reality of the camera industry has changed and Canon isn't even 2nd best when it comes to sensors anymore.

The best sensors are Sony, the 2nd best are Nikon designed/Sony made sensors, and I'm not sure Canon even come third anymore.

I'm sad about that, it cost me a lot of money to jump ship, but I deal with reality, not what I want reality to be.

I wanted Canon to release a sensor that could match the D800, and 28 months after I got the D800, that still hasn't happened.

I will say, I'm not a high ISO shooter, so limitations of the D800 don't worry me, but then if I had to shoot 3200-12800 for my pro work, I'd get a D4s, so Canon still don't get a look in for a Canon fan like myself.

Neuro is a very smart guy, his knowledge is amazing, but he has a blind spot and it's the kind of a blind spot a 16 year old fan boy has.

Canon are a great company, and have advanced digital photography more than any other company in the scheme of things, but they have lost their way, and in 2014, that hasn't changed yet.

Focus on product delineation by hobbling their stills cams to sell more of their video cams, and insisting on releasing the same old sensors in new bodies over and over and over has taken a lot of industry respect away from them, that’s for sure.

The 70D focus system? Stunning. That’s the canon of old. Shame it was added to the same old sensors with read noise and low DR. I’d love that on My Gh4 and D810, that’s for sure.

My professional photographer friends are jealous of the D800 and they haven't made the leap to Sony or Nikon because they have faith that Canon will deliver something that has 14-15 stops of DR, and no read noise, but so far, they are frustrated, and I have two years of photos with both while they lament the lack of sensor development at Canon.

So back to the good guy Neuro and DXO.

I don't give a flying toss how DXO arrive at their scores, they seem to back up my personal experience with Canon and Nikon, and everyone else i know using Canon and Nikon, which amounts to a lot of pro, APPA winners.

On my FB buddy list are the Australian Fashion Photographer of the Year, the Australian Commercial Photographer of the Year, and the Australian Nature and Science Photographer of the Year, so I’m in decent company, although I’m still only an APPA winner and not a category winner.

Yet :-)

I see people here ask what shots couldn’t be taken on a Canon. Well, I took a few shots in New Zealand that were handheld on my honeymoon that are good examples. I won Loupe awards and other awards and they couldn't have been taken on a 5D Mk3 without going to HDR techniques.

They were single frames on a D800.


With over 14 stops at 100 ISO (14.8 at 32ISO on the D810 it would appear) that is the same as a 3 shot 1 stop bracketed 5D Mk3 shot. That’s a big difference for landscape photographer to get something in one shot that would take a Canon 3 bracketed shots.

I’m not even a pro landscape photographer. I’m a people photographer, and occasional commercial photographer, but all the advantages of the D800 apply to any photography really.

What am i trying to say in this long rambling post :-)

Neuro, you’re a smart guy and I read your insights with enthusiasm, except when it comes to Nikon/Canon.

A bit of an open, or even neutral, mind would benefit your standing when it comes to those types of posts.

I’ve shot with both, for around 7 years professionally, and I wouldn’t touch a Canon if I had the choice of a D800.

I can’t give up clean shadows and over 14 stops at 100 ISO, even if my heart is really with Canon due to my history with them.

I want them to blow everyone out of the water and deliver a killer high MP, hi DR sensor and give me my well missed rate button back.

But life goes on, and Canon have a following that means they are still the number one as far as sales go due to their reputation from prior to 2012, and I guess that won’t change for 2-3 years yet, so they have time to get it right.

But lets not deny reality.

If they don’t catch up, a good brand name is not going to last forever.

Well said!
Welcome to Canon Rumours.

BTW, as a user of multiple brands, I have been telling people for years when they ask about cameras to think of how/what/where they will use the camera before they look at specific brands or models... and to look at the whole package of camera/lens/flash/accessories. For me, the general rule of thumb for cameras is if you shoot action, go for Canon..... if you shoot studio or landscape, go for Nikon.... and if portability counts above all else, go Panasonic/Olympus/Sony... I think that Nikon has the best sensors and that Canon has the best AF.... People have to choose the camera that best meets their needs and to take other people's opinions with a grain of salt.

If there was such a thing as "the best camera", the maker would have the market cornered....

I've been to the Canadian Arctic a few times for work also. I agree with you on winter time. I think the best place to go is Pangnirtung (Nunavut) during summer.
That's a trip I would love to do... The hike across the park is supposed to be astounding!

1. Space station (Just a dream)
2. South Africa Safari
3. The Arctic.
I've been to the Canadian Arctic about a dozen times for work. Travel tip: Don't go in the winter if you want to do photography.... wait till spring when the sun comes up above the horizon and the temperatures climb up into the -40's or higher :)

The picture is of Resolute... I spent a winter there and this was taken in April at -50C with my trusty OM-1 that would work in the worst cold.....

Northern Labrador
Haines Lake :)

Animal Kingdom / Re: Your best animal shots!
« on: July 28, 2014, 06:23:40 PM »
since we seem to be on a bit of a deer theme.....

Landscape / Re: Sunset landscape
« on: July 27, 2014, 08:36:36 PM »

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 27, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »
"For some obscure reason - sunspots or moon phase or other strangeness - photons are behaving better today, and I achieved higher FWC results for my D3's than I have before." 

Translation: "The results are inconsistent and I don't know why"

and that is supposed to give me confidence?????

I've outlined the legal issue. Now, let me give you the marketing advice. If I were you, I'd go to the Local and tell them:

You were really excited to see they used your picture. You would have liked to get some credit, but that's water under the bridge. What you'd really like to do is get in a position to be the Local's primary photographer.

Because you are a union electrician, you understand the jobs better than any outside photographer can. That means that when you take pictures, you will notice things that a typical photographer won't. Which means less risk of an embarrassing mistake or having to do a re-shoot.

You are concerned about the compensation because, as a union guy, you 1) need the money you get paid on jobs and can't afford to take lots of time off from paying jobs to do the photography and 2) you are sensitive to the idea that workers shouldn't be undercutting one another by doing jobs "under the table" etc.

However, you are doing this with an eye toward the future and gaining experience, so you want to be reasonable and practical about what the union can afford – maybe suggest that they pay you at the same rate as you would be getting on a union electrical job.

Oh, and you've got some ideas that they might want to consider:

How about they pick out four or five of their best union contractors and you shoot portraits of the owners or top managers to go with quotes about why they use union labor. "Here at XYZ Construction, we place an emphasis on getting the job right the first time. We never cut corners and that's why we use 100% union labor."

Meet Joe Smith. He's a union electrician and here is what the means to you.

Do a profile of an African-American union electrician that the union can use in their literature to recruit minorities.

Similarly, do a profile of an Hispanic union electrician that can be used to recruit Hispanic apprentices.

Do a brochure on what homeowners should look for in their basements, etc., for signs of wiring that is improper or unsafe.

Anyway, you get the idea. Go to them with four or five ideas of how they can use you and why you are best person for the work. Don't dwell on this incident, but use it to open doors. Maybe you become the go-to photographer for all the Locals in the area.

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 27, 2014, 04:11:00 PM »
as a multi-system user I have to agree with DXO guys, they are honest, much more so than DPR or any other unscientific review sites online.

The problem is that DXO's "science" is in dispute. How can you trust something that produces inconsistent and obviously incorrect results?
I would be a lot happier with them if they left out the magic ratings numbers.....

I guess the question comes down to "what do you want" and "what will it cost you".

You want a photo credit, but going after the union with "guns a blazing" could cost you work...

How about going after them with a solution? Offer to print up a sticker for the corner of the picture which says "Photo by Xxxxxx Yyyyyyy, IBEW member 123456" and ask if they will put it on the trailer?

Third Party Manufacturers / Re: DXO uh-oh?
« on: July 27, 2014, 09:32:24 AM »
I don't really care why Canon isn't listed or not. It makes no difference to me and I can't see it meaning anything.

"I don't care."  The last bastion of someone unable to prove their point and incapable of admitting they are wrong.  Pathetic and sad, but not surprising.   In fact, I was fairly certain that would be your response...as I already stated:

Let me put it to you a different way: why should I or anyone else care whether Canon is listed or not?
What difference will listing Canon there make to you?

I am sitting in a duck blind at the end of the yard, waiting for some mergansers to wander closer for pictures, enjoying a cup of tea, and looking at CR on a laptop (gotta love wifi) while I wait. Canon being listed by DXO makes no difference to me.

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