And, while we are on the topic of innovation, is there any other manufacturer making a flash with radio trigger built in?
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EF mount and the Rebel line are the only innovations you can think of?
How about image stabilization, ultrasonic motors, a relatively inexpensive full-frame digital body, and high-def video in SLRs?
How about eye-controlled focus, and diffractive optics?
How about DPAF? Etc.
I think AvTvM's definition of innovation means making the exact specific camera he wants...
I think they underpriced it hence the heavy demand.+1. They have also introduced several other lenses. Most notably new all-in-one zooms for APS-C and Full Frame plus their 24-70 and 70-200 zooms.
What concrete evidence do you have that the Canon marketing department had "them" do anything? That makes no logical sense. I've worked for a number of very large companies, and dealt with marketing people. NOT ONCE has a marketing person EVER told me what to do. The politics in most large companies simply won't allow that kind of thing to happen. Such a demand would have to go through umpteen channels, up then down then up again when the demand steps on someone elses turf and gets kicked back.
Sorry, but I find the whole notion that Canon Marketing is making demands of the engineering or product development side of Canon to be laughable.
Again, I'm not arguing for Canon/Nikon to avoid this market, but it makes some sense that they let this chaotic primordial ooze of a market evolve further before trying to conquer it.
In the first case it's a direct quote from a Canon guy at a show in Europe.
In the second, maybe the EOSfun guy was full of it, but he a history of popping up right before an announcement and dropping hints that always turned out to be true.
In the last case, the guy is a verified Canon employee (NOT in the camera division though)...
I'm probably in the minority here, but I think everyone who wants a soup-to-nuts 'yes, we offer that' in mirrorless would be wiser to leave Canon/Nikon immediately. Fuji, Sony and the m43 gang will far, far better support your ambitions. They have multiple mirrorless body price points and all sorts of tiers of tiny/average/big sensors and cheap/okay/semi-pro build qualities. Plus, they have a ton more lenses that are native to the mount than with EF-M.
I also do not understand why folks want reach for these microscopic bodies. I might be way off here, but mirrorless needs to be small. Period. The minute the camera gets above length X with lens attached -- let's say 6-8" -- I think the upside of that tiny body is lost...
But if you want Canon/Nikon to evolve all their hardware -- lenses, bodies, flashes, etc. -- into the smaller format, give up now. Won't happen for years and years. Again, consider a company like Sony/Fuji/m43 who is actively trying to build up their mounts with more options. You'll find more joy there.
Thanks Danuiela. I believe that perfectly describes current Canon thinking. However, as opposed to Canon and their analysts I am convinced this ignorance and arrogance towards their customers will cost them dearly.I find the frequent assumption that any forthcoming Canon must be a mirrorless camera to be noteworthy rather presumptuous. There seems to be a vocal crowd that goes to any product forum, even a product that is almost certain to be a DSLR, and then issue a series of threats and ultimatums that the product had better be mirrorless or else it will show that Canon disrespects it's customers. I find it quite odd. It's like there is an automatic assumption that mirrorless cameras are the ONLY sort of interchangeable lens camera that is viable, which is simply nonsense of course.Information from Japanese Canon fan girls, who are working @Canon:
Information about the successor of the 7D and the 5DIII are under total NDA. And total means total. There is just an small circle of engineers and managers who know all of these Cameras.
Canon is still thinking that they do not have to produce the best and most innovative products in the low and mid price segments. Sales figures show that the market analysts are right. Canon is still the best power seller on the market...
...The slow reaction on the D7100 and the still "no reaction" on the excellent D800/810 is well calculated. No need to hurry, Canon products are still sold well. There are not many persons switching to Nikon
Canon is still thinking that they do not have to produce the best and most innovative products in the low and mid price segments.
I am convinced this ignorance and arrogance towards their customers will cost them dearly.
One of their reps flat out said they removed MFA from the 60D simply so they could make it a 'new' selling point again for the 70D...
An EOSfun poster...said Canon left the 5D3 sensor old school since the marketing guys wanted to push new boundaries in profit margin per body with the 5 series and felt that adding the new 1 series AF would mean they could get away without really bothering a lot with the sensor.
A Canon guy in Australia said the DSLR division in Japan didn't seem to care a whit when their division sent them some scheme to improve DR and basically told them to get lost.
Do you have an alternative explanation? ... Something fairly compelling must have lead them to decide to leave this feature out...
At this point, the postulate of the good Friar William – he hailed from Ockham, incidentally – still holds. The simplest explanation, which is usually best, is that omission of a touchscreen from the 7DII Is just a rumor, and therefore quite possibly false.
Something fairly compelling must have lead them to decide to leave this feature out, given it's considerable popularity on the models in which it appears.
if you were out shooting in the rain th touch screen would be the first to die.
I think jrista's whole point was essentially that at THIS level of the Canon spectrum, cool features should play second fiddle to fundamentals. And I agree. If Canon is trying to make a paramount pro-level crop, keep pricing reasonable, and focus most consciously on the things that matter most to the target market they're after on the broadest scale possible....then they (and we) should be clamouring for solid and unmatched fundamentals. Maybe some analogies were misaligned but I appreciate his take on this. I've been Canon since I was five years old holding dad's A1. I still have it.
The 70D fills the upscale consumer market. The enthusiasts and the crossover videographers. Feature rich with touch and wifi.
The 7DX is for a more discerning palate looking for solid build (1DXish) in a crop that can handle harsh conditions if need be and deliver 1DXish AF and FPS. If engineering such a beast negates the use of touch and wifi, so be it. I agree that I do not believe Canon would cut such features without serious reason. One of which may be price considering everything else they wish to accomplish.
I can live fine without either. I won't miss them. I know how to toggle a canon menu well enough. So do most of the pros who would be considering this grade of machine.
In the end, all this is little more than enjoyable conjecture and academia. We don't and won't know anything til the proverbial S___ hits the fan next month :-)
Yup, this is it exactly. As I said, I don't care if they do include a touch UI, SO LONG as that does not mean they don't deliver a significantly improved sensor, significantly improved AF system, and also an improved metering system. If the 7D II hits with a consumer-grabbing tough UI, and none of the above...well, I'd perceive that the same way so many other people perceive Canon these days...as being obsessed with video and consumerism, and having lost interest in the true photographer, in solid image quality from top to bottom.
Comments like this make me think people don't know how to use a DSLR.
Who in the world, ESPECIALLY pros, want to pull the camera away from their face so they can fiddle with a clunky touch screen?
It's sad how smartphone mentality is invading every other area of our lives...
in many cases, a touch screen is the primitive configuration device
Touch screens on professional grade devices designed for use by people who know how to train muscle and procedural memory, and prefer instantaneous access to many features of the camera without the need to look at anything, or remove their eye from the viewfinder...are quite frankly the most confusing "innovation" I can think of.