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1006
Well, given that so many people on this and other forums have acknowledged that they are several generations behind would indicate to me that Adobe has been having a hard time finding compelling new features to add for quite some time.

Frankly, I kind of welcomed the fact that they seemed to be slowing down. It was frustrating when they were going through their periods when they felt compelled to redesign the interface with each new version.

Wouldn't it be funny if the whole Creative Cloud thing was just a scam to push people who are still using CS 1, 2, 3 etc., to finally upgrade to CS 6? Next May they could announce that they have "listened" to their customers and will be offering new permanent licenses, maybe on a delayed schedule (you can buy a permanent license for the Creative Cloud 2013 version beginning in Jan. 2015, etc.).

Just kidding of course.


1007
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 22, 2013, 09:47:05 PM »
WTF? my posts were deleted AGAIN!...

Join the club. The moderation on this site is horrible...frequently crosses over into thought police territory.

1008
...I'm still trying to figure out why they charged me freakin' sales tax on an online store, I've not heard of a Louisiana Canon B&M store here...

Canon has a nexus in almost every state. Remember they sell copiers and office equipment.

So, question one:
Does this flash come with some type cable to hook to the hotshoe to the flash, to allow you to shoot with camera in one hand, flash in the other?

No, but Canon will be happy to sell you one.

Question two:
Looking a the Canon ST-E3-RT. I found it on amazon.com for $299 shipped, that's not a bad price is it? If so, that starts me off well for this and future growth with flash off camera.

Yes that is a good price. Check CanonPriceWatch.Com for historical prices.

Questions three and more:
...would I be able to get some cheaper flashes right now to use with this flash?  For instance, I'm thinking of trying to learn manual shooting (based on a great CreativeLive class the other week), could I get something like the Yongnuo YN-560 Speedlights, and have them fire off (optically?) when they sense the main 600EX-RT go off?

Only if they are compatible with Canon's optical trigger. They won't work with the ST-E3 RT, so you would need to use your 600 RT as a master, on camera or with an ETTL cord.

Thoughts?

Suggestions?

As with most things it boils down to personal preference. Me, I'd go ahead and get the ST-E3 RT so you can start playing with off camera flash. One umbrella and the 600 RT off camera is a great start. Pick up a big piece of white foamcore as a reflector to provide some fill light and have some fun.

Have any Best Buy gift cards sitting around? Go buy another 600 RT at Best Buy for $499 and get 18 mos. zero interest. It's still at an all-time low. Keep watching the refurb store for the next time they come back in stock for your third, fourth, etc.

Honestly, I wouldn't buy the Yongnuos. I've got nothing against them. I had their 622C transceivers and they were great. But, I think you'll just be throwing money away in the long term. If you want to go optical for awhile , you can get 580 EX IIs on eBay now for around $320-$360 used. And, they seem to be holding their value, so you shouldn't lose too much selling them later. But again, I'd just bite the bullet and put the money into the ST-E3 RT and 600 RTs.

1009
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« on: May 21, 2013, 09:42:18 PM »
CC really only makes sense for professionals who use most of their creative suite tools. Between Lightroom and PSE, shouldn't the hobbyist market be covered? I really don't se why the whole internets went nuts over this. Nothing in this digital universe is really tangible or "owned" for any significant period of time. Shoot film or pick up a paintbrush! Art will go on.


A lot of us might not be pros (yet), but we still like to do the heavy retouching that only PS will allow us to do.


Lightroom is enough for most, but not all of us. I use it to get me into the ballpark before going into PS. The rest of the time it is just a photo organiser.

There are thousands of users out there who are not professionals, but who use more than one program. For decades Abode has marketed their products to both professionals and hobbyists/amateurs/part timers. It is that second base of users that Adobe is abandoning. Their one-size-fits-all pricing means a hobbyist (once the "promotional" pricing ends) has to cough up $600 a year.

The Adobe apologists can talk until they are blue in the face, but the public knows when they are being ripped off.

1010
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 21, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »
Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6.

I'm also thinking about going to CS6 from my current CS5 and watch how things go with subscription model, but what about this Adobe Application Manager that I apparently am forced to download for CS6 and all the complaints about it on the web? 

What truly useful feature does CS6 have over CS5?

I'd not heard of this yet...do you have any links pertaining to Adobe App Manager, and problems with it?
Just from the sound of it, it sounds like the Windows Manager type thing that MS came out with a few years ago when trying to update things, etc....

TIA,

cayenne

I've been using CS6 for nearly a year.  As far as I know, Adobe Application Manger seems to be just an updater that tells me when they have updated the software (bug fixes, etc.) and then automatically downloads the fixes. I've never had a problem with it.

1011
EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D Coming in July? [CR2]
« on: May 21, 2013, 04:06:10 PM »
If this is accurate, I don't know why there would be a need for  much "final testing" if the 70D is to have the same sensor as the 60D.

I'm also not sure why everyone assumes that the 70D and 7D II will share the same sensor if the 70D gets a sensor upgrade. Canon has three sensors in three full-frame bodies. It's very possible we could see a new 22-24 mp sensor in the 70D and then an 19-22 mp sensor in the 7D II.

1012
It seems like you are planning to kill a fly with a cannon (Canon?)

You may be carrying too much equipment to manage for an event of this type. Just how big of an event is this? Are we talking a major corporation with hundreds of employees participating in intense athletic events, or are we talking about a bunch of desk jockeys having a good time and building some camaraderie?

One wide-angle/normal zoom and one moderate telephoto zoom will keep your choices simple and enable you to concentrate on taking pictures, rather than worrying about which piece of equipment to use at any one time.  Renting a second body is not a bad idea if you are worried about something happening. But, as rmt3rd said, this ain't a paid gig.

If you do rent a body, I'd put the 70-200 on one and the 24-70 on the other. Throw the 430 EXII in the bag in case you need some extra light. Load up on cards and call it good. One body? Put the 25-70 on it and save the 70-200 for a handful of long shots.

Don't forget the first rule of shooting for a client (which is what you will be doing). If the client is happy, you are happy. If the client isn't, then you can't be. If your co-workers are used to and pleased with cell-phone candids, don't assume they want Sports Illustrated-style event photos. Remember, that most of subjects will be more than happy with a grinning, thumbs-up post event victory photo.

This isn't an opportunity for you to show off and use your equipment, this is a job (although a non-paying one) and your responsibility is to give the client the pictures they expect. I suspect that will be lots of pictures of people laughing, having fun and maybe doing a little drinking.

1013
Several good and reasonable reasons have been identified here. But one that hasn't been mentioned that also contributes to this is that Canon is a multinational company. Its costs cannot be limited to any one nation or one currency.

A falling Yen does not reduce the costs of its production facilities in other countries and it may actually increase some of its costs for materials and labor.

Another major consideration – Advertising makes up a huge percentage of a company's total costs. A falling Yen is not going to reduce the cost of advertising in National Geographic or any of the hundreds of publications that Canon advertises in. They have to pay for those ads in the local currency, so exchange rates, again, can hurt as much as help.

When talking about a company the size of Canon, there are just too many variables to presume that one thing (like the exchange rate of the Yen) will have a major impact on prices


1014
Speedlites, Printers, Accessories / Re: Advice on 1st flash
« on: May 14, 2013, 07:38:48 PM »
If you are in the U.S. you can get the 430 EX II refurbished from the Canon Store right now for $204. Or you can buy it new for $259. It's a great flash and the main practical difference from the 580 EXII is that you can't plug a battery pack into it.

Eventually, if you really get into flash, you will want that option, but when you reach that point, you can probably sell the 430EX II for not much less than you paid for it.

The other primary drawback is that it uses the optical trigger slave function (like the 580 EXII) instead of being a radio slave (like the 600 EX RT). Again, eventually you may want that function, but initially you won't miss it. The 60D can be used as a flash controller, so you can experiment with off camera flash with the 430 EX II.

A word of caution though, it is a "gateway drug" to Speedlite dependency. Once you get started down that path, there is very little hope of turning back and one day you will wake up and find yourself in bed with four or five 600 EX RTs.

1015
EOS Bodies - For Stills / Re: Do you trust your camera?
« on: May 14, 2013, 10:19:41 AM »
Never trust a camera. They are clever, pathological liars, incapable by nature of telling the truth. They are particularly troublesome because their lies are so clever and so subtle that they have convinced a large portion of the population that they are honest and impartial.

It is the responsibility of a photographer to know better.

Recognize this essential fact about cameras and understand that you will spend your life alternating between two equally futile goals.

The first is to try to squeeze as much truth as possible out of an unwilling and uncooperative machine.

The second is to try to form an alliance with the little liar and use its natural inclinations to achieve your goals.

Mastering these two impossible-to-master skills is the lifelong work of being a photographer.

1016
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 01:01:07 PM »
Private, you make a number of excellent points.

Your examples are just some of many that I think Adobe hasn't thought through.

I think one of the interesting things will be how this plays out over the next year and a half. Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6. The real impact on Adobe may not show up until August, 2014, when all those entities who took the introductory pricing the first year fail to renew.

I think Adobe is gambling that they can sell customers on the subscription model over the next year. The problem with that gamble is I don't see that Adobe has a good exit strategy, but Adobe is giving their customers a year or more to devise their own exit strategy and is giving their competitors a year to get to market with alternative products.

As I said at the beginning of this discussion, I can really see Corel being a strong acquisition target for a company like Google, which already owns NIK and has the resources to develop a strong competitor. 

1017
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 12:42:04 PM »
According to the Adobe site, all you have to do is show a Student ID that is valid, and having a valid .edu email address also helps.

Frankly, I'm working now to register with a local college, for $50 I can get a student ID, and I will use that to buy the CS6 suite, for my own use. Plain, simple, legal.

And I have read the FAQ from Adobe themselves, and it is perfectly legal to use this educational copy for commercial uses.

http://www.adobe.com/sea/special/education/students/studentteacheredition/faq.html

Look under the "How can I use my software" section.

C


Wow! That agreement is much looser than I imagined. I didn't know they allowed it for commercial use and I didn't know there was an upgrade path. Very interesting. Honestly, the agreement almost seems to be inviting abuse – allowing persons to buy one edition every year, accepting anyone employed by a school, etc.

1018
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 13, 2013, 10:46:08 AM »
Regarding Student-Teacher Software licenses, does anyone know what the licensing agreement actually says, or are we just having a bar stool legal discussion?

I've never purchased the educational version. I wonder what the agreement actually requires. Does it prohibit other household members from using the software? Does one need to be registered in a course that requires the software? Can you purchase software not related to the classes you are taking (for example, if a taking an HTML course, can you only purchase Dreamweaver, or are you eligible to purchase the entire suite?)

I always thought part of the purpose of educational software was to promote the product by establishing a base of students who know and use the program and then, when they leave school, they will be more inclined to a) encourage their employers to use that software program and b) when they advance to the point where they are making purchasing decisions for their employers they will be more likely to select the software.

In other words, I always thought it was as much a marketing tool as anything. That was, I assumed, one reason why the purchasing rules are rather lax, but the company offers no upgrade path.

Following Meh's logic, it seems that a student who buys CS6 to use a part of a hobby that is unrelated to school work might also be guilty of pirating the software.

1019
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 11, 2013, 03:11:14 PM »
...So far I see subscription as more affordable way to get an expensive software even if it means paying more in the long term.

Except that with the "Creative Cloud" system it is not a more affordable way to get expensive software. The "affordable" model Adobe instituted and followed for at least two decades was the "upgrade" path. Make your initial investment in the software and then, over time, you can receive discounted upgrades and expansions, until ultimately, you have a full suite of software available to you at a substantial savings.

The trade off was clear – you got rewarded for being a loyal customer and Adobe had a built-in base of customers for software upgrades. One of the frustrations with the new Cloud system is that Adobe is changing the rules on users who have played by their rules.

I've done the math every which way and even with the special introductory pricing, customers end up paying more. But, as others have said, the money is only a part of the problem. Many long-time users felt some loyalty to Adobe and were their best advocates. There are many other issues as well. 

1020
Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« on: May 10, 2013, 09:12:24 PM »
There are lots of ways Adobe could have made this more attractive to consumers.

Instead of a one-year rental, they could have offered longer terms at discount. $20/month is actually not a bad deal.  But that's their "special introductory" pricing for CS6 owners. That creates uncertainty and Adobe has pretty much said they intend to jack up the price next year. If I could lock in for $20/month over 3-5 years it would be much easier to swallow.

No reason they had to base it on unlimited usage. Allow persons who don't use every program every day to  pay a small fee when they are using a program.

No reason why the model had to be based on unlimited programs. They could offer a plan where people would pay for their choice of 3, 5, or 8 programs for example. You want Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver. Somebody else needs Fireworks, InDesign and Dreamweaver, etc.

Point is, Adobe adopted a very narrow profit-maximizing model, rather than a customer-based model. Scott Kelby and others who owe their living to Adobe can talk to their blue in the face about what a great deal this is, but the customers know otherwise.

If you offer a choice and people take you up on it, it's a good deal.

If you don't offer a choice and force people to take something, it's not going to be a good deal.

Adobe, sadly, didn't have enough confidence in their own product to try to win customers by attracting them to the product, instead they chose a forced model.


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