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Messages - RustyTheGeek

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Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 11:03:37 PM »
Paying a monthly subscription fee for software makes about as much sense as leasing a car.  Ask just about any good financial advisor.  Pisses me off that they alienate those of us who buy their software outright.  LR5 is likely the last boxed version of LR that we will see.
I agree and I hate the subscription model because it locks you in for eternity.  If you slow down your use someday and photography is less of a hobby, what are you going to do when you want to view your extensive photo inventory down the line?  Paying $$ each month just to have access to your images and their edits is not what I signed up for when I committed thousands of images to a Lightroom catalog and the Adobe DNG format.

This opinion is based on pure assumption at this point.  I pray that LR stays a standard software license product if for only the fact that it is an organizational database tool first and foremost.

FYI - For those of you that haven't heard the news about the HEARTBLEED SSL BUG...

There are many websites that are vulnerable to the bug until they are patched.

Affected PHOTO sites include 500px.com and flickr.com.

(As listed here... https://github.com/musalbas/heartbleed-masstest/blob/master/top1000.txt)

Also, I just tested the vonage.com login page and it is also affected.

Go to these sites to test (paste in the address of) the URL of the https login page before you use or login to the site again.  There is also a Chrome Extension linked at the filippo site.
https://www.ssllabs.com/ssltest  OR  http://filippo.io/Heartbleed/

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 11:11:03 AM »
... lots of things including 'local' sync methods are possible in future versions, it all depends on what users ask for. http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family is the place to make your suggestions and complaints, both equally welcome.

how about starting a well-designed poll thread on this forum and asking you to then forward results directly to those responsible Adobe?  :)
Seems to me that if Adobe is interested in feedback, it's not too hard to search the web, find threads like this one, copy and paste the relevant bits into a short synopsis and present it to those that need to see it internally.  I assume that is what happens (or should) anyway if Adobe is truly looking for opinions and feedback in this day and age.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 11:05:46 AM »
1) Photoshop on an iPad? Might as well skip PS and use Instagram filters to post process your images. I'm unlikely to convince Apple to make a 30" iPad, so it seems I'll stay with my desktop to edit images.

2) I do not always connect to the internet, so the CC thing is a pain for me. If I go off somewhere for months, why do I need to check back in with Adobe when I'm paying the bill? Makes zero sense, and I will not pursue the CC scheme. Their reasoning is twisted, and not based on real numbers.

3) Anyone examine the data throughput to Adobe to see how much you end up paying if not on WiFi but using 3G? More costs involved?

4) The second year is five times the price? And Adobe expects you to fulfill the contract for the first year regardless of usage? Automatic renewal? If you are off the grid then or get the notices routed to your junk folder, you might be looking at the second year contract buy out plan (50% of the remain contract). $300 to say, "No, thanks"?

No, thanks.

Pretty much what I've always thought too.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 09:59:32 AM »
1st, I want to say how much many of us appreciate a representative from Adobe participating in this forum, watching this thread and sharing input to help answer questions and provide feedback.

There will always be arguments about whether the consumer products (Lr, Elements, etc) will go 'subscription only' in future, and Adobe can't do more than to say there are no plans. There really aren't, it's not something the target customers would accept. Maybe in 30 years when the entire concept of 'installing' something is dead and buried the idea will be forced upon us all, so Adobe cannot say "never".

Thanks for the insight.  I suspect the Adobe stockholders will demand this subscription model be forced upon us all much sooner than 30 years.  From the consumer standpoint, it appears to already be happening.  The subscription model has been the holy grail of the software developer industry since the beginning of the industry.  That and total control against piracy.

Right now with LR Mobile version 1, all the data flows through Adobe's network, and there's a lot of it. I do understand people are angry about having to subscribe to get the app working (personally I didn't think it was a good idea), but it's not ad-funded and there are real costs to keep the thing operational. By all means complain about it, Adobe do take note of feedback. That's what people like me are here for - I don't mind being shouted at.

I'm glad you have a thick skin!   :)   While I know you didn't design the product, sending all the data through the Adobe network is quite silly if you ask me.  If the goal is to sync images with a local LR database on a local computer, why go to through the Internet unless the local connection doesn't exist?  There should be a way to set it to "local port only", "local network only", "cloud based" or have a connection priority setting since a lot of folks just want to put images on the portable device in the field from the camera and then sync with their computer when they are back home.  A cloud only connection would be useful for social media while away from home but a lot of photographers don't need that if you ask me.  I think many folks get the feeling when they try to use products like this that the designers don't quite understand what photographers want or need.

Sorry but with regard to the CC model payment requirement and needing revenue to fund the project... respectfully... that's ridiculous.  Launching a new product successfully requires taking chances and accepting some revenue loss in the short term.  Crippling the adoption of a new product by restricting the ability to use it based on a payment structure sends the wrong message to the loyal (already paying) honest user and invites negative assumptions about the company in general.

A ver 1 product with limited functionality and bugs doesn't deserve to be paid for yet anyway.  Wouldn't it be easier/more productive/better PR to just make ver 1 of this product free and see how many people jump on it, help test it, provide positive feedback to you and then require payment in the next more useful and stable version?

..and when I'm shooting on location I run Lr5 on a Surface Pro; quite frankly it's much better. I can shoot tethered, develop stuff and hand off the final results to a client while they're watching. I'd also suggest using a small laptop in the same way; the Surface is overpriced for what it is but I got the thing for testing, and forgot to give it back.. ;)

I totally agree.  A local connection is the best way to do this.  Then only upload selected images to the cloud as an option if needed/desired later.  Hence my statement above about not sending the data through the cloud unless necessary.  Keep it local.  Why can't the iPad product simply do the same thing?  Oh wait..... that's right.... the iPad doesn't have a connection port that enables tethering!  (Except their proprietary connector that Apple won't allow to be used for connecting things unless it's a keyboard or iTunes!  Nice.)  But there's still an ad-hoc WiFi signal... ah crap.  The camera doesn't have WiFi.  Oh well, thanks anyway Apple.  After several years, still no useful standard ports on an iPad.

Elsewhere in this thread I suggest using a Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro which is similar to the Surface Pro.  These hybrid tablet/laptops are finally getting light enough and affordable enough to offer a good alternative to a tablet.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 08:41:44 AM »
It's fascinating to see the almost pathological level of emotion certain posters have against this company or that one. If you're so convinced one way or another that Android is better than Apple, then don't buy the Apple products, give your money to Samsung, vote with your wallet, no one cares. Likewise in reverse for the Apple fanatics. But spare us the lecturing please. For all the mocking that Apple "fanbois" receive, it's interesting to note that in this thread most of the hysterics are coming from disgruntled Win/Android users. Enough already - message received. Can we move on to the real point of here, to review LR Mobile? I'm sure Adobe will eventually release a version for Android, once they figure out how to support it on countless diverse hardware and software versions. Such is the downside of all that "choice".

Kudos to those who have tried to steer back on course. In that vein, I also agree that there are much better mobile options for syncing with LR. Photosmith has been mentioned.

Yeah, message received.   :-[   I'll accept most of the blame for going off topic and I actually already said that further up.  I got a little carried away.  Sorry!

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 01:21:56 AM »
...while I sound like an Apple hater

Just so you know, I was rather careful not to call you a 'hater'.   8)

and they don't sue what seems like the entire world at the same time they fleece the consumers within their ecosystem.

This is one way in which Apple is not perfect.  I think they would be better off focusing their time, money and energy on product innovation instead of lawsuits.  Whether Samsung is right or wrong, when you're at the top the competition is going to go after your market share.  They are not going to sit still.  Apple needs to focus on moving forward, not worrying about the competition copying what they did in the past, particularly in a field that changes so fast and the past is rapidly irrelevant.

And yes, they are expensive, really too expensive.  It disturbs me that they charge $100 for each bump in storage when storage is so cheap.  It disturbs me that the iPad 2 lived so long for so much money.  I think Macs are incredibly expensive, though I am thinking about one at some point.  But I do think they make a good product (not perfect) and it's really a personal choice if the cost is worth it for all the pros and cons.

That said, Samsung isn't shy about what they charge for their top tier products and even Amazon cranked up the price of the Fire HDX from the HD to a level I don't think they are worth.

Yeah tntwit, I really appreciate you not jumping to conclusions with my rant.  I try to be objective with technology but I also try not to be taken in by marketing and pretty lights and elegant surfaces.  Technology should make things better and provide productivity, not just look nice.  I applaud Apple for many things.  They stomp the competition with their ingenuity, innovation and the simplicity and functionality of their interfaces.  There are good reasons why they are a leader.  Grandparents can use their products with ease.  So can most of the rest of us.  Their downfall is their pompous arrogance and insistence on total control along with their ruthless corporate attitude.  And over the last couple years, they have become stagnant.  Steve Jobs was a master visionary and great at many things including being a perfectionist and demanding excellence.  But his downside was his ego and the way he took competition so personally.  He needed more Wozniak to offset his Jobs.

I have owned Apple products in the past, I have clients that have or do own Apple products.  I may own another Apple product some day.  I had an iPhone.  Now I have an Android.  My wife still has an iPhone.  We have various electronics around the house, some Apple, some Android, some Windows, some Linux, etc.  But overall, if I am going to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on something that is overpriced, I'll buy another camera, lens or photography item.  At least I can get most of my money back when I sell it down the road and it probably won't fail on me or be easily damaged.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 09, 2014, 01:04:58 AM »

I have much better luck with the Camera Connector Kit than either an Eye-Fi card or a Canon WFT.

Which iPad and I assume iOS7?

I heard some people were having issues with the connector kit and I don't recall if it was the iPad Air they were blaming or iOS7.

1st iPad and OS 5.1.1. Forget wireless RAW files, though you can do them, technically, the only way I will do them is via the WFT via FTP to Photosmith, EyeFi cards are very slow for RAW's and just not worth it.

Funny you guys are discussing connectivity and the iPad.  I remember back in the old iPad 1 days when most folks couldn't get the Camera Connector Kit to even work and if they did, it was dead slow and killed the battery very quickly.

This is part of the reason I was/am so irritated with Apple and iPads.  I really really really wanted to use an iPad for photography from day 1.  It was never a realistic option due partly to limited connectivity and partly due to lack of decent apps.  There was just no way to get photos on an iPad out in the field that was even remotely useful.  You had to use iTunes.  What a joke.  At least these days there is the ability to use WiFi to some extent.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 07:28:05 PM »
You could run LR 5 on a Windows Surface Pro.  I've used Premiere Pro and After Affects on a Surface Pro, though memory and RAM are a bit of an issue...and rendering is god awfully long.  LR 5 is fine, though it gobbles up RAM pretty quickly.  But if you absolutely need it on a tablet it's there.
A buddy of mine has run LR and PS on one of the EEE ASUS tablet with the built-in Wacom display for on location use - pretty handy indeed. I am sure the more recent Surface devices are way better than the older ASUS boxes.

Once these tablets are a serious contender as a desktop/laptop replacement I will likely step-up but although they are small they still have poor battery life and are heavy compared to an iPad or Android tablet.

Check out the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro.  i7 CPU, 8G RAM, 256 SSD, ultra-high res display (3200×1800 at 13.3" (276 ppi), higher than retina) and great battery life.  Reviews are mostly great except the ultra high resolution is actually almost a negative it's so high.  Great for photos though!  It's about $1000 or $1200 from Best Buy depending on whether you want the i5/4G/128 version or the i7/8G/256 version.



I can tell you that regardless of age, experience, talent or skill level, everyone gets nervous.  But that soon goes away when you get rolling if you are well prepared and you have a solid plan to follow.

Rusty.... a slight edit:

I can tell you that regardless of age, experience, talent or skill level, everyone gets nervous.  But that soon goes away after two or three shots of vodka!

 ;D ::)

Or smooth whiskey!  Or not-so-smooth whiskey!   ;D

If you are a fan of the sitcom Big Bang Theory, then consider the episodes where Sheldon Cooper has ever touched alcohol.    Then picture a photographer at a shoot!   Bwaaa ha ha ha!!   :P

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 02:19:42 PM »
As I WTFU and look back on my posts, I guess I got waaaay too far off topic in this thread beating a dead horse.

Sorry folks!   This is me... STHU.  :-X

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 02:16:57 PM »
And Apple stuff isn't as perfect as people who have never used it think because many who do use Apple stuff sugar coat the experience. 

No company or product is perfect and Apple is no different.  What I find entertaining is how many people love to hate Apple.  If you were to base a buying decision on opinions from certain sites on the internet on Apple, you would probably never buy any.  Specifically check out the opinions of forum posters on Phone Arena.  Most people there would have you believe that the iPhone and iPad are horrible products that only a 'stupid comsumer' - iSheep as they like to call them - would ever buy. 

So while it may be true that some Apple users sugar coat the experience, there are plenty of Apple haters that will give you a very poor impression of the products that is just a far from reality.

tntwit, I appreciate your balanced and positive replies.  I think all of your replies to my points are good points and while I sound like an Apple hater, I'm not a hater per se, simply a disgusted and disappointed observer of an Apple ecosystem that I think could be so much better if it wasn't so expensive, intentionally limited and deceptive.  In other words, Apple marketing is all about how positive and ideal they are on the surface but once a consumer buys in, they begin to learn how deep the money hole goes for limited benefit.  I've helped a lot of clients try to get Apple stuff to work the way they would like (after switching from other platforms) and often they eventually give up and return to the other platforms after learning the sad reality that all things Apple is not the nirvana they were misled to believe.

Not to say that Apple stuff hasn't improved over the years and slowly become more productive.  They are much better than they used to be.  But Apple the company hasn't changed at all.  In fact, the larger Apple gets, the more draconian and litigious they become.

I try (sometimes in vain) to explain what you have said:  If you want a simple and limited experience that is easy to use but inflexible, buy Apple.  Apple will make you happy as long as you do things their way.

With regard to Apple being successful locking people into their ecosystem for revenue compared to other companies, I respectfully submit that other companies products are much cheaper initially and they don't sue what seems like the entire world at the same time they fleece the consumers within their ecosystem.  Amazon makes it pretty clear their tablet is a portal device.  And the Nook tablets allowed the Google Play Store app last year to make it mostly universal.  Google Nexus is of course not tied to anything.  Apple also seems to think that everyone copies them at everything and while that is partially true, it's not nearly as true and Apple would like to think.  It's sad to watch Apple sue so often over so many petty issues regarding names, images, trademarks, fonts, logos, devices, patents, URLs, or whatever they can imagine is theirs by some kind of divine right.  It's not the ecosystem model that I mind, it's the way Apple does business that I get tired of along with the poor support of their products down the line.  This is what most folks don't hear about until they own the products for a while.  While the Apple of the '80's was exciting and revolutionary, the company they evolved into is simply a huge greedy bully.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 01:04:06 PM »
This is why I have opted not to subscribe, and continue to use LR6 and PS CS6 (which do everything I need).
My point is, software has built in obsolescence and Adobe and Microsoft to name a few have adopted this model. If we want the new features we will need to pony up (or pirate) otherwise we can revert to our old perpetual licences or find open source variants.

I agree. At some point in the future, it will be necessary to find alternatives outside of Adobe's products. I think this is preferable to getting locked into a CC subscription. More pain and effort in the short-term, but better in the long.

chmilar, you hit the nail on the head!  If more folks would simply...

-  NOT Pre-Order overpriced or questionable products
-  WAIT a few months to force the manufacturer or developer to lower/change their unfair price or pricing scheme/model
-  SHARE and COMMUNICATE their true opinions for the manufacturer or developer to see and consider

... then I think companies would think more carefully how ridiculous they are when it comes time to ask for money for their products and how they attempt to manipulate the consumers to get it.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 12:57:23 PM »
This is why I have opted not to subscribe, and continue to use LR6 and PS CS6 (which do everything I need).
For now...
The next upgrade of Canon to say the 5D4 will require a Camera RAW upgrade that would likely only be available on the new CC platform regardless of whether or not they make LR a CC only subscription.

The majority of the features I use in LR and PS could be served with older versions but you fall into the trap of needing an update to support a filter or new device. I limped along with my 5D3 two years ago and I was running LR3 at the time and needed to upgrade to LR4 which at the time involved a new laptop (2k later). For months I converted files to DNG and then imported them - no tethered shooting, etc...

My point is, software has built in obsolescence and Adobe and Microsoft to name a few have adopted this model. If we want the new features we will need to pony up (or pirate) otherwise we can revert to our old perpetual licences or find open source variants.

Which is why many talented coders continue to hack around these scams so people have a choice.

It's a shame that greed is (and always has) driven the software corporate structure.  I'm all for developers being compensated but the software industry seems to be slowly following the incredibly flawed anti-piracy model of the RIAA/MPAA that intentionally burns everyone in a vain greedy attempt to lock people into spending tons of money for questionable value of products and services.

Software & Accessories / Re: Adobe Lightroom Mobile Version Official
« on: April 08, 2014, 12:51:20 PM »
Thanks this is useful info. For travel this could work as a "shoot - edit - share" solution on the go. I suppose tethering is out of the question? That would seem like an Apple limitation. I hate the lack of connectivity on the iPad. It's like the perfect screen for tethered shooting but I can't use it!

My point exactly (about Apple's built-in limits), which is why I use other tablets with the same or better screens and more connectivity, etc.  Not to mention media card slots, etc.

And honestly, if I were going to spend $800 on a Apple tablet, that kind of money could likely be better spent on an ultralight touchscreen tablet/laptop hybrid which are getting so good that they are beginning to make more sense as a better alternative to an expensive limited tablet.  Check out the newest Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro for $1000 - $1200.  It's very nice and extremely versatile.  Compare that to the $800 Apple tablet that you still have to buy a keyboard cover for and all kinds of other gizmos to expand its limited storage and connectivity.

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