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Messages - moreorless

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I wonder how good they can make pancake primes.

Have a look, how small, light, fast and good primes can be made: http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/m_system/lenses/

And contrary to urban legend, adding Ring-USM-AF to those lesnes would not cause additional bulk, but actually make them even smaller and lighter, once the utterly unneccessary manual focusing gear and focus ring will be finally exterminated. :-)

Look at what it'll cost you. ;)

TBH, lens size isn't that big an issue. If you want F1.2 lenses then yeah, sure.

But the 85 1.8 is half the weight and size of it's L big brother. Why Canon haven't released a light series of L's is beyond me.

Same size of the 1.8 but better coatings and refined optics. I don't need 1.2L but I need the image quality.

Its maybe not such a big issue for certain people who are happy with f/2ish primes in the wide to short tele range but how much of the market does that really make up? the majority of users still IMHO preffer to use zoom lenses with a recent range and on FF to get decent quality that means a minimum of 500g and a decent size.

I'm sure a decent sized market exists for FF mirrorless but I think the lens size issue is going to limate its appeal compared to ASPC where I do think mirrorless will gradually build market share as performance increases. Added to that of course the advanatges of an OVF are multipled on FF were as an EVF can be the same size on any format.

I was talking to one of my friend last night and ask him is he is going get the Mark III.  He said "It forgoes the SLR system that is outdated which allows for a much more compact body. Imagine having the functionality and image quality of a 5D mark III but with the size and weight of a compact point n shoot. "

If he wants the same coverage of focal length and aperture then this is likely physically impossible.

As has been said the other side of the debate is that a lot of people actually like the size of current DSLR's, look at something like the GH3 and its clearly much larger than it needs to be.

I'd add as well that to me there doesn't seem to against potentially going the Fuji route with DSLR's and having a viewfinder that can switch between an OVF and an EVF to potentially get the best of both, I won't be shocked if we see this from Canon in the future given the amount of focus there putting on video.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 70D Announced
« on: July 02, 2013, 03:47:22 AM »
great ,  this sensor based AF is the future because this really helps getting rid of the annoying mirror, the slapping mirror is not really needed for digital sensored cameras.

fast LV AF is very important , if you shoot events with DSLR over crowds, you know it, the fast sensor based phase detection AF combined with swiveling screen is really interesting.

but too bad it does not have 60p, I probably get this one for testing soon any way, though.
I love the small body  of this camera and I actually like the look of it too.
But I hope next 5D gets this sensor based AF tech and swiveling screen +4k raw video, and hopefully usable ISO6400(I do not consider ISO6400 of any current camera usable at all).

any way, it is a great move and I much prefer this over any APS-C camera out there.

It'll be interesting to see how this compares with the AF systems of Canon's mirrorless rivals, if it beats them then that likely changes that market a good deal.

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS M or EOS SL1 ??
« on: June 30, 2013, 08:49:20 AM »
The viewfinder issue is I think one only you can answer although I'm guessing we'll probabley see a Canon mirrorless with EVF and the new 70D sensor latter this year or early next.

To me what makes the EOS-M tempting isn't the body or the EF adapter but the native EF-M lenses themselves. Granted we've only seen three released so far but in terms of quality and/or value they seem like there a step above all of their mirrorless rivals, arguably above most DSLR options aswell.

EOS Bodies / Re: The Future of EOS M [CR1]
« on: April 26, 2013, 10:08:08 PM »
yeah...if Canon can keep the price reasonable (good luck with that, tho), make it focus uber fast, have a great viewfinder and and comes out with some small fast primes people would want it to complement their FF or CF kit...but certainly as I mention in my post (you cut and copied the above out of context just to bash!) as the M is now...I cannot see many people who come to this site considering it for anything. :-)

The ironic thing for me is that dispite only having two lenses this is the area where Canon seems already to be to have an advanatge over Sony. Obviously the lineup is smaller but in terms of lenses I'd actually want to use the 22mm is both cheaper and faster than the Sony equivilent while the kit lens seems like it outperforms the Sony to a considerable degree aswell.

Personally I'd say the M's failiure thus far seems to partly be down to Canon's very SLR like approach to the market being a mismatch for mirrorless. Its a market where "sexy" rather than "dependable" sells IMHO, the casual user probabley has no idea of lens performance while the more serious user probabley looks past cheaper lenses.

The AF is obviously an issue but the original X100 was by all accounts hardly a speed demon but we heard much less about it because the camera had more in the way of "sexy" features.

EOS Bodies / Re: Future of APS-C Given 6D Pricing
« on: March 27, 2013, 07:07:44 AM »
i think the chance that the 7D MK2 will be fullframe is way below 1%.   :)

APS-C will still be wanted and needed by some for the extra reach.
even when you have a 800mm and a TC you will still have more reach using an APS-C camera.  ;)

so a PRO 7D MK2 makes absolute sense.

Indeed, I'd expect something pretty similar to the 5D3 but with an ASPC sensor, 10-12 FP, priced around the same as the 6D at launch but maybe dropping a bit less over time.

That still leaves room for say a non sealed, 5-6 FPS, old 7D AF 70D with the same sensor priced around the same as the D7100.

Lenses / Re: small primes to go with SL1?
« on: March 23, 2013, 12:00:04 PM »
I don't see wide angle primes in pan cake format for EF/EF-S mount because the flange distance doesn't allow very small lenses with high quality. You have to use a retrofocus design which needs negative lenses in front of positive groups and therefore consumes space. A very contrasty, sharp and distortion free lens like a f/4.0 25mm seems possible with perhaps 30mm length. But nothing more.

One existing pancake like lens is the Color Skopar of Voigtlander:
  * NO AF
  * Moderate IQ
  * small size
  * great mechanics
I never used it and I am not interested because I have the old 24mm f/2.8 from
Canon which is a little bit larger but gives me the IQ I need and is made from sturdy
but light plastics. Perhaps that lens is another alternative for the 100D (and should
be cheaply available).

SL II lens collection of voigtlander (except 58mm lens available for EF mount):

A test of the 20mm:

Best  - Michael

Some of Pentax's limated primes manage to be very small dispite being retrofocal and having AF.


I'm guessing you might need to make an SLR lens slower to get it down to the same size but if your looking at a cheaper EF-S lens f2.8 is probabley fast enough.

I wouldnt be supprized if the SL1 was devolped pretty quickly, faster maybe than any more compact lenses for it could be. The new 18-55mm while actually larger than the previous lens does at least offer things like fulltime manual focusing, a focus ring and a non rotating front element, makes for a smaller alternative to the likes of the 17-85mm, 15-85mm and 18-135mm if you want those things and not the range.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS-b Images Leak & a New Kit Lens
« on: March 21, 2013, 02:11:15 PM »
I'd love a small camera with EF mount, that would be awesome, but this is not it for me. I have to say that very small DSLR are very ugly, this being the ugliest of all. I'm sure that it has the build quality of a Bic pen. If it had the smooth design of a NEX for example it would totally hit the spot and I think it would sell like crazy..

I'm guessing Canon's view is that they'll target the market that cares more about "style" with the EOS M and the market that just wants a smaller body but the functions of a DSLR with the 100D.

What is I'd say really lacking at the moment is compact lens support for the 100D, add an EF-S version of the 22mm F/2 EF-M and I think your looking at a potentially very popular camera.

EOS Bodies / Re: Canon EOS 100D Detailed Specs Appear
« on: March 18, 2013, 08:11:11 AM »
If I wanted a body this small I'd invest in a m4/3 mirrorless system instead.  When I think of wanting something more compact, I think of both the body AND the lenses.  A super small body will be really unbalanced when you add larger lenses to it, even EF-S.  Pricing is kind of out there too.  Meh.

I think it makes more sense when you consider it agenst m43, you want a body with an SLR form factor and an EVF and your paying a significant amount more than this.

It also of course offers an option to existing EF/EF-S lens users looking for a smaller second camera with the same mount.

We don't of course know what kind of lens support Canon might offer in the future, maybe a powered zoom or a wider pancake?

EOS Bodies / Re: EOS 100D Coming? [CR1]
« on: March 18, 2013, 07:36:44 AM »
We don't of course know what kind of standard this camera might be built to, it maybe of a higher quality than the Rebel line. Even if its not though I'm guessing Canon are banking on its compact nature to sell at a prenium, not really that unrealistic considering the prenium you pay for m43 bodies with DSLR like form factor and an EVF.

The other side I spose is lens size, the 40mm pancake is an option I spose but a bit long, a shorter EF-S pancake or a powered zoom would IMHO help such a camera alot.

EOS Bodies / Re: A New DSLR Line from Canon? [CR1]
« on: March 12, 2013, 01:02:34 PM »
why does this have to be entry level? why cant Canon make a full frame interchangeable lens camera with a form smaller than a DSLR.
I know some of you out there cant hold tiny cameras, but for me, walking or carrying a backpack for 8 or 12 hours in a day around town, or walking to work, traveling, size and quality is everything... along with quick and accurate AF.
Canon, please make this dream of mine come true.

The 6D does seem to be looking to cater for a smaller FF body so I'm not sure we'll see something similar released in the next couple of years.

To me the most obvious gap in Canon's DSLR lineup seems to a be a high end but compact ASPC body akin to say the K-5, perhaps taken even further. Canon still seems to hold to the "bigger = better" line of marketing but I think were starting to see a change there with the likes of the NEX 7 and the XE-1. Of course bigger does equal better within those lineups but the higher end mirrorless bodies are I'd guess taking more of there market share from DSLR's than entry level mirrorless.

A Rebel sized(but nicer styled) body with say the latest sensor, 7D AF/FPS and metal/sealed build would IMHO do alot to combat this.

EOS Bodies / Re: What about a more versatile sensor dimensions?
« on: March 04, 2013, 04:15:37 PM »
I'm guessing too many lenses like the 24-105mm have plastic covering the image circle that would be needed for a square sensor, might be interesting for a new system though.

I'v always thought going the other way might be interesting, more panoramic rather than squarer. Some people preffer the wider aspect and having say a sensor the width of FF but the height of ASPC would potentially save money on the sensor/mirror/viewfinder while still allowing EF lenses. Heck if were really getting fantasy make it mirrorless and include a built in shift function so you can use as much image circle as on FF.

EOS Bodies / Re: Big Megapixel Camera in 2014
« on: February 10, 2013, 10:50:44 PM »
Third, who the heck is 'the entire Canon community'?  I can only assume you're referring to the tiny minority of people here bitching about Canon's 'terribly low DR' and 'horrible, shot-destroying pattern noise.'  The 'Canon community' and in fact, the dSLR-buying community at large seems to be quite pleased with the 5DIII, and with Canon in general.  Have a look at Amazon.com's Top Rated dSLRs (note - top rated by customer reviews, not top selling, although Canon owns the top of that list, too).  The 5DIII tops the Top Rated list, and Canon holds the entire top 15.  Then we see Sony...but where's Nikon?  One Nikon camera in the top 20, a total of 5 in the top 40.  And the D800?  Based on customer feedback, it's not even in the Top 100 at all (the D4 and D700 are in the top 50, but only barely).  So I'd have to say WTF to your claim that 'the entire Canon community' is dissatisfied with the 5DIII.  A 'community' of about ten (excuse me, now about nine) naysayers here such as yourself, perhaps.

I'd say that the issue your dealing with is that the "Megapixel/DR" community tends to be the most vocal on the net. Partly I'd say because the serious landscape/macro market naturally tends to be a bit more "techy" and so involved in gear forums but mostly because these elements obviously count for more with the for the want of a better word "measurebators".

On this forum I'v no doubt most of those after more Megapixels/DR are in the first group but on the net as a whole I think the vast majority are in the latter. These are elements that can be tested to your hearts content shooting brick walls (or more likely looking at other peoples shots of brock walls for cameras you'll never own) where as the benefits of improved AF, FPS, weather sealing etc will be felt more when actually using a camera to take photos out in the world

Its not as if there isnt discontent on the Nikon side aswell though, head over to any Nikon forum and you'll find people bemoaning a lack of a true sucessor to the D700.

EOS Bodies / Re: making a case for that crop body camera
« on: February 03, 2013, 02:45:15 PM »
If you need a larger image in a landscape scenario...photomerge is a no-brainer, just use a longer lens.

I see this arguement alot but honiest to me the majority of merged pics look like exactly that, merged pics with fairly uninteresting composition.

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