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Author Topic: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]  (Read 14773 times)

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2012, 04:45:49 PM »
Yes, a 40mm f/1.2L next to a 50mm f/1.2L?
40 seems to become a new standard? - next to 40mm f/2.8


And what will that do to 35mm f/1.4L?

I think that NL has had that 40mm lens image on the rumors area for a while as a joke

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2012, 04:45:49 PM »

candyman

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2012, 05:05:03 PM »
Yes, a 40mm f/1.2L next to a 50mm f/1.2L?
40 seems to become a new standard? - next to 40mm f/2.8


And what will that do to 35mm f/1.4L?

I think that NL has had that 40mm lens image on the rumors area for a while as a joke


That would make more sense  :)

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2012, 10:24:02 PM »
That 39MP sounds interesting! Could be talking 4k video with C100-type 2x2 read sets and utterly superb 1920x1080 video. And it might help it get fps up and deliver 6fps for sure. If they have a new process with column ADC and all and they pack it in a 5D-sized body and keep the 5D3/1DX AF.... wow. Sounds gooood.   :D

lots of ifs though

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 02:02:57 AM »
Another rumor was 16-bit A/D which would also increase processing demands a pretty big chunk.  But remember the 1DX has DUAL DIGIC-5+ processors.  From what I know, there is still horsepower left over..  So I would think it might be able to handle 39.9mp AND 16-bit A/D..  Maybe, maybe at 6fps..  But that would be pushing it I would think.
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2012, 03:05:18 AM »
Yes, 39.3 MP is a perfect 2x2 upscale of 4k video or a perfect 4x4 upscale of 1080p - which matches what they've done with the 5D III and its 3x3 upscale of 1080p.

If it has identical processing power as the 1D X and 14 bit readout, it will theoretically be capable of 5.5fps. If it has a 16 bit read out, the frame rate will theoretically drop to 4.8fps.
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2012, 04:47:40 AM »
There are a few different big megapixel cameras (sensors) are out for testing.

No big megapixel prototype sensor is in an 5D Mark III style body.

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 05:38:16 AM »
As some here probably already realize, 39.3 megapixels is kind of a magic number, since its resolution is probably 7680 (i.e.,1920 X 4 and 3840 X 2) horizontal by 5160 vertical. If you want a C300-style 2 x 2 binning sensor, except capable of being cropped to 3840 X 2160, that is the resolution you would want.

Good observation. A 4x4 HD 3:2 sensor has 39.3 MP; a 5x5 has 61.4 MP
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 05:38:16 AM »

Ivar

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 06:16:57 AM »
I wonder what that might mean. Looks to me video specifics is for video product line rather than for still cameras - the 5D3 didn't push much on the video side and a lot of cinema stuff was introduced instead. Even the 1-series still didn't get any better video.
What concerns 39.3MP for-whatever-amazing-price-figure in an unknown future doesn't sound like a challenge for current 36MP offering available right now and being rather cheap.

As some here probably already realize, 39.3 megapixels is kind of a magic number, since its resolution is probably 7680 (i.e.,1920 X 4 and 3840 X 2) horizontal by 5160 vertical. If you want a C300-style 2 x 2 binning sensor, except capable of being cropped to 3840 X 2160, that is the resolution you would want.

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2012, 11:10:56 AM »
just a possible small fly in the ointment, which I wanted opinions on please...

http://www.georgedouvos.com/douvos/Depth_of_Field,_Diffraction_and_the_Nikon_D800___D800E.html

The article indicates that with the large MP of the D800, your CoC is now closer 10 microns which means diffraction starts being noticeable sooner - at around F/8. So for the more knowledgeable on the forum please

  • Is this correct?
  • Is the inference that the 7D being of a similar pixel size has the same limits?
  • Are we therefore assuming that for landscape photographers, any high MP body requires the use of focus stacking if you want to maximise perceived DOF?

ps I do use one of the iPhone Apps - OptimumCS, but have no affiliation to the author. Hope I have not infringed any posting guidelines, apols if I have...
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2012, 04:20:07 PM »
There are a few different big megapixel cameras (sensors) are out for testing.

No big megapixel prototype sensor is in an 5D Mark III style body.

Hopefully just because it's easiest to house things in a 1 series body with the big battery for testing for now.
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2012, 04:46:28 PM »
As a humble user of the 5D mk1 and mk2, one who produces pictures for clients up to 2.5m x 1m, can some of those who are excited about the 39.3MP "FF" size sensor explain to me just what you're going to use it for ? ???

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2012, 05:23:53 PM »
probably to take pics at a higher resolution.  Which will result in higher resolution 2.5m x 1m prints for clients.  To assume your 5DII will produce better images than a proposed 40mp 1DS (or whatever) with all the latest tech is borderline delusional.  Let people be excited about it, it is obvious why they, me included, are excited about it.  trying to talk yourself into not being excited is fine, but being a wet blanket just for the sake of it is not really appreciated.  :-X
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 05:48:05 PM by rlaverty »

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2012, 06:05:18 PM »
As a humble user of the 5D mk1 and mk2, one who produces pictures for clients up to 2.5m x 1m, can some of those who are excited about the 39.3MP "FF" size sensor explain to me just what you're going to use it for ? ???

Take those same pics you take now, and add a ton of IQ.
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2012, 06:05:18 PM »

Bob Howland

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2012, 07:25:37 PM »
As some here probably already realize, 39.3 megapixels is kind of a magic number, since its resolution is probably 7680 (i.e.,1920 X 4 and 3840 X 2) horizontal by 5160 vertical. If you want a C300-style 2 x 2 binning sensor, except capable of being cropped to 3840 X 2160, that is the resolution you would want.

Good observation. A 4x4 HD 3:2 sensor has 39.3 MP; a 5x5 has 61.4 MP

I don't think that 5x5 would work. The bayer sensor uses a 2x2 block of two green, one blue and one red pixels. Using odd numbers would require taking pixels from an adjacent block. I don't think the 5D3 uses 3x3 binning, although the horizontal resolution is 5760 or 3 x 1920.

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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2012, 10:07:06 PM »
There are meant to be various resolutions out there, all moving us somewhere closer to an upper limit which isn't worth going beyond for a 35mm sensor. For most purposes, a 20 odd MP sensor is already good enough, but for those that want maximum resolution, where will it end up?

Even lenses which are razor sharp with current sensors between f2.8 and f11 are likely to start showing their flaws when the MP goes up. The current 20 odd MP sensors start to suffer from DLA (diffraction limited aperture, or softness due to the small aperture) at around f11 with any lens. If the sensor can has a higher MP count, that smallest aperture with full res drops down - the D800 has a limit of approx. f7.8 - and most lenses are at their sharpest at around f8 - so it takes a really good lens to get the best out of a sensor that dense. Canon are releasing some very good lenses just recently which appear to out resolve the current Canon sensors at f2.8, and will possibly out resolve 36MP at f2.8 - but you've still got a reduced useful operational window there.

Its a exponential curve, so according to my calculations a sensor which is past its optimal range at f5.6 has 70MP - f4 is 138MP, and f2.8 is 282MP. Even at 70MP, f5.6, its unlikely any lens will give 100% pixel sharpness at f2.8, and to even appear perfect at f5.6 will take some great glass. So to get the best out of that sensor you're probably limited to one or two lenses, at one aperture setting. Select any other aperture, and even if everything else is perfect (tripod mounted photo of a stationary subject), you're not getting full resolution. And the narrow DoF at f5.6 at those magnifications (why else do you want such a high res, other than to print massive and study it up close) largely renders the extra resolution useless. This is possibly taking it too far for any practical uses.

Any sensor intended to work well for video will ideally be a nice round upscale of the intended HD resolution. At 1x 1080p, filled out to a 3:2 frame, its 2.5MP. 2x, its 9.8MP. 3x, 22.1MP. 4x, 39.3MP. 5x at 61.4MP will not allow for a useful upscale of 4k, so such a high res is really only suitable for 1080p, and will likely be no better than 39.3MP. And 6x is 88.5MP - while it will downscale for video OK, it's too much for stills at its native resolution by my reckoning.

So is 39.3MP the ultimate resolution for a 36x24mm sensor designed with HD video in mind?

And is it as far as we need to go for stills, or will demand make some manufacturer take it higher still? Diffraction sets in at f7.5 at 39.3MP - not inconceivable for landscape and studio work, but would some users want more, considering the limitations it brings? If you need much more resolution to print at massive sizes and still look good when studying it with a magnifying glass, you're hitting the limits of the size of the sensor.
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Re: Does a 39.3mp Sensor Exist? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2012, 10:07:06 PM »