December 09, 2016, 04:32:45 PM

Author Topic: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS  (Read 47488 times)

kubelik

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 824
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2010, 09:13:00 AM »
there's almost no relationship between the new canon 70-300 L and sigma's 120-300 f/2.8.  just in terms of handling alone, that's like comparing sneakers and hiking boots.  one is a lightweight, do-all lens, the other is a beast meant to shoulder a specific burden.  very different people will be looking at these two lenses for very different reasons

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #75 on: September 23, 2010, 09:13:00 AM »

Edwin Herdman

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #76 on: September 23, 2010, 08:54:53 PM »
I don't know that I'd call it a challenger to the new 70-300mm L.
Yes, I realize that.  In this post I'm not focusing (as usual) on Canon's market positioning, I'm focusing on what will be best for me.  Apologies for not making that clear.

From my perspective, the 70-300mm has a nice focal length range and features, but the maximum aperture is narrow.
The 100-400mm I'm less interested in on the basis of its being an older, heavier, and more expensive design all around, without the benefit of a zoom ring (well, it's a benefit in most situations, plus the dust advantage).  I didn't realize until writing this post that the apparent 1/2 or 1/3 stop benefit of the 70-300mm is negated by 155mm, and the 100-400mm surpasses it by 228mm, where it holds on at f/5 until 239mm, where the 300mm has has given way to f/5.6.  Not a shattering victory and in actuality a rather small range where the 100-400mm is faster, but the 70-300mm isn't an unambiguous improvement.

Size and weight for the 70-300mm doesn't really sell it to me over the 100-400 - minimum focus is considerably better, however.

The MFD charts (comparing the 70-300mm and the 100-400mm product pages) are somewhat ambiguous to me because I'm left attempting to compare different focal lengths:

The 70-300 does seem to start better at the center for many focal lengths (especially wide) and keeps that improvement to 20mm diagonally (where one of the f/8 30LP/mm lines drops off, though the other stays high).  The 100-400 MTF lines, sharpening up by 400mm compared to 100, suggest to me that it gets sharper (relative to its wide performance) as you increase the focal length, whereas the 70-300 seems to be the reverse, being sharper at 70mm than 300.  Unfortunately this doesn't help a direct comparison - the MTF lines for the 100-400mm sag at about 5-10mm across the frame, at 400mm, but that's apples and oranges to the 70-300 @ 300mm (though it bodes well for the 70-300 that its lines don't sag, but stay high farther across).

I'm starting to think that overall the 100-400mm may have no great handicap at comparable focal lengths, if not an edge...really the only thing that stands out is the rather ugly 80% contrast for 30 LP/mm lines (the thicker / coarser lines) on the 100-400mm at 100mm, but it stays at 80% further across the frame whereas the 70-300mm drops rather quickly past the corners of an APS-C frame (unfortunately, comparing 70 and 100mm, so apples and oranges again).  How the newer coatings etc. of the new lens enhance the performance indicated by the MTF charts, not to mention performance on the targeted APS-C frame, may make up the difference remains to be seen.

In any case, the new 120-300mm looks like a potential deal buster to me - if it is more appropriate for full frame is no problem for me, since that leaves full-frame camera options wide in the future.  Overall contrast and sharpness, features, and especially AF reliability all remain points I'm worried about, however.

Thankfully I can put off a decision on these zooms for some time.

ronderick

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 396
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2010, 11:45:16 PM »
mmm... I wonder if anyone mentioned this before, but another reason why the 70-300L won't fill the niche of the 100-400L is that it does not support the use of extenders.

At least the 70-300L is not listed as one of the supported lenses under the EF 1.4x III extender description on Canon Japan's website...
Canon EOS 1D MKIV, EF 24-105mm F/4L, EF 70-200mm F/2.8L, TS-E 17mm F/4L, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro
FujiFilm FinePix X100

Edwin Herdman

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #78 on: September 24, 2010, 02:41:25 AM »
Yeap, it's been pretty well determined that the 70-300mm won't work with extenders.  This confuses folks because the new 70-200mm IS II does.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 20044
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #79 on: September 24, 2010, 05:43:37 AM »
Good points, Ed.  There are trade-offs between the two lenses, certainly.  IQ-wise, my guess is that in general the new lens will be a little bit sharper on average, but the 100-400 is plenty sharp.  As you state, the aperture differences are not major, and frankly both are slow...  So in my mind, the main differences come down to portability and weather-resistance vs. the extra 100mm. 

Minimum focus distance (MFD) is considerably closer (6') with the 70-300 L, but maximum magnification (MM) is not too different.  It seems that the new 70-300 takes focus breathing to the extreme - the MFD for the new lens is the same as the MFD for several of the 70-200mm zooms, and the MM at 300mm is the same as as those other zooms at 200mm.  So, if the numbers are correct (and apparently Chuck Westfall has confirmed them), the new 70-300 L at the MFD has an effective focal length of only 200mm. 

Sigma lenses are a mixed bag - AF issues do seem to be common with them, and focus is usually slower than their Canon equivalent. 

Yeap, it's been pretty well determined that the 70-300mm won't work with extenders.  This confuses folks because the new 70-200mm IS II does.

Part of the lens design, keeping it compact - the rear element of the 70-300mm is right at the back, so there's no room for the protruding element of the extenders.  3rd party extenders (e.g. Kenko) would work.

Good thing you're not in a hurry, and good luck with your decision!
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

richy

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #80 on: September 24, 2010, 07:41:06 AM »
Martijn, sigma make a decent 300 2.8 and 120-300 2.8, used they are bargains and offer really great quality for the price.

As for the 70-300L I am witholding judgement until I see results. With iso 1600 and 3200 being saleable settings these days I'm not worried about 5.6 so much (although not being able to use teles is a valid point). Im looking at this as a lense for when i dont want to carry the 300 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 about and be swapping lenses rather than as a direct replacement for any particular lens. I wouldnt be suprised if canon used this to delay or ditch a 100-400 upgrade. Other brands have managed to make good versions but canons was so/so. If its sharp at 300 @ 5.6 then it will probably sell. I was waiting on a 100-400 ii but this on a 7d is good enough if its sharp :)  I dont think canon are as crazy as it may seem. Now a 70-300 2.8 IS thats razor sharp would be worth some pennies !

Flake

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2010, 08:11:25 AM »
I have the Sigma 120 - 300 f/2.8 and it's as sharp as a tack, also have the 70 - 200mm f/2.8 IS L MkII and although it's a little sharper it's not massively so.  The 120 - 300mm is the cheapest way to get to 600mm (with a 2xTC) and still retain auto focus.

Another lens I'm fortunate enough to own is the 28 - 300mm IS L and it's this lens I would recommend ahead of the 70 - 300mm IS L.  It's just as fast at the long end, latest generation IS and you gain the 28 - 70mm.  Image quality is well up to the mark, maybe it's not up with the other two, but why does anyone need to compete in the good, better, best race, when the good is good enough?

Buying this superzoom, although expensive could make most other lenses redundant, and the fact you don't need to change lenses means less sensor cleaning. min focus distance of .7meters and mag of 1:3.3 means a screw on close up filter makes macro possible.  It's also possible to use a TC if you are careful & don't allow the rear element to meet the TC !

All you need (almost) in one lens, and certainly one which shouldn't be overlooked (as superzooms often are).

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #81 on: September 24, 2010, 08:11:25 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 20044
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #82 on: September 24, 2010, 08:51:39 AM »
Another lens I'm fortunate enough to own is the 28 - 300mm IS L and it's this lens I would recommend ahead of the 70 - 300mm IS L.  It's just as fast at the long end, latest generation IS and you gain the 28 - 70mm.  Image quality is well up to the mark, maybe it's not up with the other two, but why does anyone need to compete in the good, better, best race, when the good is good enough?

Actually, it's one generation back in IS - the 28-300 has 3-stop IS, vs. the 4-stop IS of the newest lenses.

That aside, it's one big, heavy beast, and for crop body users, there no wide angle (45mm is 'normal').  I think I'd rather carry the 17-55mm + new 70-300mm and cover a broader range with a smaller and lighter package with a lot less weight for about the same price, or 24-105+70-300 if weather sealing is important.

But you're absolutely right that people often forget about this lens!  It annoys me when people state the 100-400mm lacks weather sealing because of the push-pull zoom design, when Canon's other current push-pull zoom, the 28-300mm, is weather sealed.
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

StepBack

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2010, 09:32:22 AM »
Take a 500 dollar lens and throw in AL-2 and IS and it is suddenly 1299-1799!

kubelik

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 824
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2010, 11:06:27 AM »
Take a 500 dollar lens and throw in AL-2 and IS and it is suddenly 1299-1799!

whoa, let's not oversimplify things.  the glass in this by far exceeds the glass you're getting in the $500 consumer 70-300 zooms.  take a look at the MTF charts.  or even take a look at real world images taken by a canon 70-300 non-L and compare it to something shot on a 70-200 L series lens.  that's the expected difference in image quality.

weathersealing is a big deal too and definitely worth a significant premium on a lens.  when I first saw this, I was scratching my head over the price, but after thinking about it and seeing what others have to say about it, I think this is actually a really well-priced variable aperture L-series zoom.

docsmith

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 490
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2010, 02:25:39 PM »
Take a 500 dollar lens and throw in AL-2 and IS and it is suddenly 1299-1799!
Second the "Whoa".....or perhaps you need to take a further step back  ;D

This is "potentially" a very good if not great lens.  I say potentially as it isn't even released yet.  It may not appeal to everyone/you.  Personally, I can see it as a great general purpose telephoto zoom.  The MTF charts are excellent and the only preliminary review that I've read (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-300mm-f-4-5.6-IS-L-USM-Lens-Review.aspx) is very favorable.  Also, the final street price is not known, only "approximately" $1,500 (USD)....but lenses typically cost less than Canon's recommended price.  So let's wait a month or so to see how good production models are and how much they actually cost.

Flake

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2010, 05:30:05 PM »
Almost every review of Canon products on 'The Digital Picture' is positive, to the point that it can hardly considered impartial, plus there are no real test figures.  The old 70 - 200mm IS L f/2.8 wasn't the best of lenses in it's class which is one of the reasons it was replaced, but have a read of the glowing review it gets on TDP.

I think I'll reserve my judgement until Photozone gets their hands on it and test it properly & impartially.

docsmith

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 490
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2010, 06:29:07 PM »
Almost every review of Canon products on 'The Digital Picture' is positive, to the point that it can hardly considered impartial, plus there are no real test figures.  The old 70 - 200mm IS L f/2.8 wasn't the best of lenses in it's class which is one of the reasons it was replaced, but have a read of the glowing review it gets on TDP.

I think I'll reserve my judgement until Photozone gets their hands on it and test it properly & impartially.
I like the work that they do at photozone and SLRgear.  I like "Roger's Take" at lensrentals and bobatkins too.  I think each website adds to the collective wisdom on the web regarding canon lenses.  I definitely include TDP in that group.  As for test figures, the ISO 12233 comparisons on TDP are among my favorite ways to directly compare lenses.  Specifically about the 70-200 mm IS L f/2.8, "Roger's Take" liked it so much that he didn't think it needed to be replaced, SLRgear said that by "by any measure the 70-200 f2.8 L IS is an excellent lens" and even photozone only criticized it's performance at 200 mm in comparison to the f/4 IS.  Most reviews of the MK I I've read were very favorable.  It's just the MK II is better.

TDP provides a nice oratory regarding each lens from a users perspective.  You read the whole review and you get a good sense of the lens.  Pros and cons.  Is it spelled out as clearly at 3.5 stars vs 5 stars.  No.  That isn't their style.  And you don't have to like their style, I do.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #87 on: September 27, 2010, 06:29:07 PM »

Supabongwong

  • Guest
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2010, 12:13:26 AM »
Though it is L glass, i think that people are way too focused on the image quality of their photo...rather than the actual quality of the image if you know what im sayin.

The old 70-300 was a 650 dollar lens with the same 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS so i honestly cant see them raising the price over at least double. You can get an f4/L IS for about the same price, though you dont gain the 100mm you gain the stop..

Why Canon, does an L label need to be worth so much. YOU DIDNT EVEN ADD STABILIZATION

Take a 500 dollar lens and throw in AL-2 and IS and it is suddenly 1299-1799!

whoa, let's not oversimplify things.  the glass in this by far exceeds the glass you're getting in the $500 consumer 70-300 zooms.  take a look at the MTF charts.  or even take a look at real world images taken by a canon 70-300 non-L and compare it to something shot on a 70-200 L series lens.  that's the expected difference in image quality.

weathersealing is a big deal too and definitely worth a significant premium on a lens.  when I first saw this, I was scratching my head over the price, but after thinking about it and seeing what others have to say about it, I think this is actually a really well-priced variable aperture L-series zoom.

kubelik

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 824
Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2010, 10:35:14 AM »
supa, it's not like canon's ending the consumer-level 70-300's.  I think the point is pretty clear -- if you think those are good enough for your uses, buy them.  plenty of people have, and plenty of people will continue to do so.  if somebody wants to shell out $1500 for a weathersealed, high IQ 70-300, then they have something to spend their dough on.  everybody goes home happy.  that's what you do in business, find a market, and then deliver a product that captures that market.

I think most people buying L glass are focusing on both image quality, and quality images.  I find it hard to imagine anyone spending that much money on a hobby, and then not taking it seriously.  I'll speak for myself as an L-glass owner, but I think the same goes for lots of others out there: sure, I don't think I create images that deserve to be called "great photography".  but that doesn't mean I'm not trying.  truly great photography doesn't come easy (and shouldn't come easy, otherwise, whats so great about it?).  but it doesn't mean we can't all aspire to great photography.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Announces 70-300 f/4-5.6L IS
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2010, 10:35:14 AM »