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Author Topic: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]  (Read 39204 times)

Marsu42

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2013, 02:28:39 AM »
serious rumors will only surface a few days/weeks before releasing the new camera...

A serious rumor imho isn't a rumor anymore - Canon simply is very secretive and never leaks any information on purpose to generate interest or divert attention from the competition (unlike other large companies), a habit that falls in line with them being a candidate for the "most conservative company of the world" award.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: January 28, 2013, 02:28:39 AM »

carlosmeldano

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: January 28, 2013, 02:32:47 AM »
A serious rumor imho isn't a rumor anymore - Canon simply is very secretive and never leaks any information on purpose to generate interest or divert attention from the competition (unlike other large companies), a habit that falls in line with them being a candidate for the "most conservative company of the world" award.

I meant that all rumors leaked more than 1-2 weeks before camera release couldn't be taken seriously.

sanj

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: January 28, 2013, 02:53:12 AM »
these are just rumors... just check all the rumors from 2012, mostly the same as this: nothing more than speculation... I don't really understand why this is a CR2...

serious rumors will only surface a few days/weeks before releasing the new camera...

my point too!

Sith Zombie

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: January 28, 2013, 06:05:17 AM »
I wonder what Nikon's roadmap is and how their competitive launch will compare to Canon's...

I'm guessing they're competitive will be.... actually competitive.

dlleno

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: January 28, 2013, 10:18:16 AM »
these are just rumors... just check all the rumors from 2012, mostly the same as this: nothing more than speculation... I don't really understand why this is a CR2...

serious rumors will only surface a few days/weeks before releasing the new camera...

yea its a CR2 because the source is known, not because the known source has guarenteed insider information

dlleno

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: January 28, 2013, 10:35:15 AM »
... If Canon wants to squeeze money out of a top-of-the-line APS-C camera, my uneducated guess is that it would come in slightly under $2k. I would put the Vegas over/under at $1,899.

Dave

which is, at this moment,  what one can get a 6D for today via amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-20-2-Digital-Camera-3-0-Inch/dp/B009B0MZ8U

dlleno

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: January 28, 2013, 10:52:42 AM »
I'm not saying the 7D2 is getting two DIGIC chips or the 1DX's dedicated metering system, but I think the AF will be top of the line.  It's an action camera, so it needs great AF and they happen to have one ready to go.  Further, it will commonize the user experience for shooters who bounce between FF and APS-C bodies.
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7D already has two DIGICs, but no third one dedicated to metering as in the 1DX

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: January 28, 2013, 10:52:42 AM »

J.R.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: January 28, 2013, 11:35:20 AM »
I'm not saying the 7D2 is getting two DIGIC chips or the 1DX's dedicated metering system, but I think the AF will be top of the line.  It's an action camera, so it needs great AF and they happen to have one ready to go.  Further, it will commonize the user experience for shooters who bounce between FF and APS-C bodies.
- A

7D already has two DIGICs, but no third one dedicated to metering as in the 1DX

+1

Just to provide more completeness ... the 7D sports DUAL DIGIC-4s as opposed to DUAL DIGIC-5+ processors (for sensor) and one DIGIC 4 processor dedicated exclusively for metering in the 1DX.
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ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: January 28, 2013, 11:56:34 AM »
I'm not saying the 7D2 is getting two DIGIC chips or the 1DX's dedicated metering system, but I think the AF will be top of the line.  It's an action camera, so it needs great AF and they happen to have one ready to go.  Further, it will commonize the user experience for shooters who bounce between FF and APS-C bodies.
- A

7D already has two DIGICs, but no third one dedicated to metering as in the 1DX

I stand corrected.  Thanks.

Metering has always been a knowledge gap for me. I didn't even know that spot metering only works on the center AF point for all bodies (except for 1-series) until this past summer.  I was spot metering off-center AF point faces in backlit situations only to get dark silhouettes, ha.

I'd give vital organs for that at-AF-point spot metering, but I understand that is one of many things the 1DX's dedicated metering chip does.

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Radiating

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: January 28, 2013, 12:00:17 PM »
Surely they wouldn't price it above the 6D?

Of course they would ...

Of course they wouldn't.

The 7DII will be cheaper than the 6D. That's for sure.

There's a reason the 6D is named '6D': to signify that it is positioned above the 7D.
The marketing message here is that a FF camera is a always a step up from a crop camera, regardless of specs.

This message is needed to assert the premium-ness of FF; without it, it's hard to charge a (hefty) premium for FF.

Canons latest strategy has been to markup all new products 30% for the first 7 months. I predict the 7d will go for $2000, msrp, and sell for a minimum advertised price of $1800 at launch. Making it cost $100 less than the 6D

dlleno

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #145 on: January 28, 2013, 01:21:44 PM »
Just to provide more completeness ... the 7D sports DUAL DIGIC-4s as opposed to DUAL DIGIC-5+ processors (for sensor) and one DIGIC 4 processor dedicated exclusively for metering in the 1DX.

I think we can expect the dual DIGIC architecture of the present 7D to extend into the 7D2.  What they do with it is another matter!  As I read through the thread I find essentially two 7D2 camps: interestingly enough most seem to use the 6D price point as the point of interest when speculating about the 7D2 price:

Camp cripple says that the 7D2 will represent only incremental improvements to the 7D in both the AF and metering systems.  It will have a new sensor but nothing else will be really spectacular about it because 5D3 and 1DX sales ,as well as the FF reputation, must be protected.  The 7D2 will be priced at or lower than the 6D because no FF body should ever cost less than even the best crop body, and because cost is always inversely proportional to the integer painted on the outside.  The sensor might have better DR than the present crop sensors but it won't threaten any of the FF sensors. 20Dave, J.R., x-vision, to name a few, are in this camp.   Variations on this theme include the suggestion that a greater feature set would start to look like a 1D4 successor, in which case it cannot possibly be named '7'.

my observation here is that the 7D itself was disruptive and this discription of the 7D is not.  while certainly believable, a 7D2 with the above features would be a enormous yawn.    It does, however, fit the more traditionally perceived Canon approach and marketing strategy. 

Camp wow says that Canon wants to continue leading in this segment, and that they will pull out all the stops (bonus quiz question:  who can describe the origin of that expression without looking it up?) to produce essentially a 5D3-featured body with  10-ish fps in a 7D style crop body.  Price likely to be in between the 6D and the 5D3 because the market will accept a full featured crop body named with a single digit.  Not many will care that the flagship crop costs more than a entry level FF, and no one will be confused about the numbers painted on the side.  marsu42, k-amps, xps, quasimodo, ahsanford, ray2021, LetTheRightLensin, and some random set of Japanese tourists, are in this camp. 

my observation about camp wow is that such a camera does not necessarily have to be perceiced or positioned as a 1D4 successor.  If Canon is really both insistant and succesful in driving the pro wildlife and sport 'togs to the 1DX (and to longer gla$$) , and if the 1DX really does represent the amalgamation of the 1D and 1Ds bodies, AND if  APS-H is really dead, THEN you have more room for a 1.6x crop body with some wow, and without confusion as to its positioning.  The 7D itself was very disruptive in this regard  -- for the first time painting a single digit onto the side of a non-FF body. 

pierlux

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #146 on: January 28, 2013, 01:28:23 PM »
Rumorwise, I think we're talking about the wrong camera here. Let's evaluate the information we have. The "very reliable source " says that "There will be 3 DSLRs launched in 2013, two of them will be “entry level” and one will be “mid level”."

Then CR guy comments that "The two entry level cameras will probably be a new Rebel and a 70D... ...The midlevel camera is probably the EOS 7D Mark II"

So, the source is simply stating "2 x entry and 1 x mid", the rest being CR speculation. At least this is the way I understand it. CR guy, can you confirm?

Should this be the case, I respectfully disagree. The two entry level cameras may likely be the T3 (1100D) and T4i (650D) replacements, I wouldn't call a 70D "entry level". I understand the plastic 60D has lowered our expectations, nevertheless I would rather file the xxD line under the "mid level" class of dSLR. Consider many pros have used, and some still use, the 40D, one of the best crop dSLR ever. No, firmly no, "entry level" is not the class to place the 70D in.

Therefore, it is more likely that we'll see the T5(?) (1200D), T5i (700D) and 70D announced in 2013, no 7D mark II for the current year. Note that I would be very happy to be proved wrong by facts, since I'm really wanting the 7D2 to be available the soonest, but I doubt we'll see it delivered before 2014.

I had an interresting talk with five Japanese tourists at the winners ceremony.
They had professional Nikon and Canon cameras and told me that Nikon will release a top Crop Camera in spring this year and update their Nikon 100-400 pedant (80-400 or so).

The Canon 7D2 will be priced much higher than an D300 successor, near the 5D3 .
The Camera will be an class for its own. A small 1Dx. Fast AF and high fps. A special product for all persons that will need high speed and do not have the money for an 1Dx.
The Canon successor of the 100-400 will be at 270.000-300000 Yen.

One of them said, that in Japanese photography chatrooms many think, that  Canon should buy some of the parts at thrid party companies. Today the Sony chip is much better than Canons.
And if Canon will not change their strategy, they will be soon in financial problems

Makes perfect sense to me, +1 for the Five Japanese Tourists. Canon won't repeat the aberration of placing 4 aps-c cameras in the market, 3 of which having he same sensor, separating the top one from the cheapest by only a few hundred $. That's why they were someways forced to break one of the 60D legs by dropping AFMA and magnesium alloy body. So here's what the possible roadmap may be in 2013 for EOS bodies, assuming the "very reliable source" is correct:

1. The T3 (1100D) replacement with the already overused 18MP sensor, which would be a significant improvement over the current 12 MP one. In this way, Canon would painlessly get rid of the 18 MP sensors they still have in stocks. The T3 was marketed March 2011, its predecessor was June 2008: only two formers don't make a statistic, so the next one (T5, 1200D ?) could be any date.

2. The 70D. It will be likely given back the magnesium alloy body and AFMA, plus all the bells & whistles we've been rumoring about in this thread and before. The major question is about the sensor: will Canon stick again to 18 MP, will they dare shrinking 24MP in an old tech sensor, or will they deliver the rumored new tech sensor with a MP count and a read noise adequate to compete with, or hopefully better, today's aps-c rivals? Let's hope it's the latter.

3. The T5i (700D) with the same sensor as the 70D in a Rebel body, keeping the approx 1-year life cycle typical of the Rebel line.

As concerns the 7D Mark II, my guess is that it will be a pro camera with improved AF over the 7D, an insane 12-14 fps, dual Digic (maybe we'll see the "VI" debut) and all the stuff needed to justify its price which will be close to that of the 5D III, maybe something less (but I wouldn't be much surprised if it is going to be even something more), to be marketed in 2014. Regarding the price, don't forget the 7DII is going to partially fill the gap left by the gone aps-h line.

Right now the sensor is the weak part of the chain, but even so the system beats the competition for my needs.

Totally agreed. But, over time, the weak link in the chain must be reinforced, otherwise the link fails, the chain breaks and the system goes down as a whole. I'm sure there's more than one trick up Canon's sleeve in this respect, the only question is how long will it take to translate into production what R&D is for sure already testing. I would also include the possibility for Canon to pay Sony the royalties and use their patented technology, which doesn't necessarily imply they will pay forever, but only until they can match or surpass the competitors with proprietary tech. Again, the FJT may be right...

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: January 28, 2013, 01:32:20 PM »

Why can't we keep Nikon out of this?


How about talking about the Panasonic GH3 ??? A M4/3 camera that's gennerating a lot of interest from pros. It has a magnesium wethersealed body for less than $1,300.00 :) It has 1080/60p 50Mbps IPB and 24p 72Mbps ALL-I video (better video specs than a 5D3 :(  ).

And unlike the Canon 7D2 and the Nikon D4 the GH3 is actually available NOW. ;)

I just saw this. A GH3 used on safari http://www.naturalexposures.com/corkboard/testing-panasonics-newest-micro-four-thirds-camera-the-gh3/ Check-out the first photo, this looks like a great birder/nature camera :)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 02:03:03 PM by c.d.embrey »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #147 on: January 28, 2013, 01:32:20 PM »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #148 on: January 28, 2013, 01:47:22 PM »
and that they will pull out all the stops (bonus quiz question:  who can describe the origin of that expression without looking it up?)

I believe it's from pipe organs, if I'm not mistaken?
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dlleno

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: January 28, 2013, 01:50:07 PM »
...I'm really wanting the 7D2 to be available the soonest, but I doubt we'll see it delivered before 2014.

that would be sad indeed, and by the time 7D2 emerges, the 7D would be an ancient relic of pre-modern technololgy!

Quote
As concerns the 7D Mark II, my guess is that it will be a pro camera with improved AF over the 7D, an insane 12-14 fps, dual Digic (maybe we'll see the "VI" debut) and all the stuff needed to justify its price which will be close to that of the 5D III, maybe something less (but I wouldn't be much surprised if it is going to be even something more), to be marketed in 2014. Regarding the price, don't forget the 7DII is going to partially fill the gap left by the gone aps-h line.

fair comments, to be sure;  I'll join you in hoping 7D2 comes before 2014,  and I'm officially putting you into "camp wow" :D :D You're the only one so far who has suggested, along with me, that the presumed demise of APS-H and the announced amalgamation of 1D and 1Ds into the 1DX creates more "room" for a full featured crop body without confusion as to the numbers painted on the side.  I also tend to suggest that those who lean towards the conservative/incremental/yawn approach for the 7D2 may not be noticing that:

1.  the third camera in the rumor is refered to as "mid level". What is the mid (price) point between between a rebel and a 1DX?  hmm.......its just below that of the 5D3.

2.  the 7D intro was distruptive in that it assigned a single digit to a crop body.  For me, there is no reason why such a wow crop body could not have a 7 painted on the side. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 01:53:27 PM by dlleno »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #149 on: January 28, 2013, 01:50:07 PM »