July 28, 2014, 10:45:01 AM

Author Topic: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there  (Read 13497 times)

digital paradise

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2013, 04:13:54 PM »
Needs better light and post processing. Maybe a little AFMA? Can you post the raw file and we can see what we can do with it?

Yes it was a little dark. 

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2013, 04:13:54 PM »

digital paradise

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2013, 04:16:05 PM »
Cropped it a bit. Look at the detail in the stamped R. Again click for full size.


dff by Zen1950, on Flickr

digital paradise

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2013, 04:35:16 PM »
You are right and I did say I knew the OP was looking for before PP tips which were addressed by other members. Unfortunately the digital world requires it because of the nature of the beast. The late great photo shop guru Bruce Fraser dedicated a lot of his time to this area so there must have been a reason. There are entire books on sharpening alone.

I do understand your point. Thought we could get the OP to split the effort between the front and back end. Thanks for the reminder.   

RickSpringfield

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2013, 04:50:13 PM »
This was shot handheld with a G10 P&S, but I used flash to give me some contrast. Look at the light, your image has very low contrast.
  - Now I am totally DEPRESSED!

So, lets see if I get this right.  Try my test again.  Use a Flash, Use F8 and a High Shutter like 1/500 and lock it off on the tripod and it should be amazing by comparison.

Is there anything in camera I should be doing?  Because of video when I shoot Jpeg I shoot typically ProLost settings.  But I can use a different Pic profile or maybe just neutral.  I would think neutral would be good if the image was truly sharp.

jon_charron

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2013, 04:51:42 PM »
Yeah.  As someone who has taken a ton of shots for catalog, pop it with some light (including some on the BG) and you won't need to mess with a lot of PP.  It will look good right out of the camera.  Some minor PP will be gravy.

Mmm...gravy.  Nom, nom.

Sporgon

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2013, 04:57:19 PM »
As others have said, you're finding the 24-105's weakness in the way you're using it. The 24-105 thrives on a bit of unsharp mask, as does the 7D. 

But if you don't want to post process, looking at the shot you took and the lenses you have I'd use more modelling light, use the 50 at about f4 and set sharpening in a picture style to about 3 or 4 but keep the contrast setting down a notch. The reason I'd use the 50 is because you'll be closer to the subject, ( within reason )  which has little depth, and the closer you are the easier it is to achieve sharpness.

And of course, no movement anywhere.

iMagic

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 05:06:15 PM »
If you are going to stay with jpeg then you may want to add in camera sharpening to the picture style. From your last jpeg I think it was set to zero.

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2013, 05:06:15 PM »

ecka

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2013, 07:23:41 PM »
Chasing tack sharp in-camera JPEGs? Forget about it... It's the same as chasing unicorns :).
You must learn a decent RAW processing technique. It is the only way.
FF + primes !

wickidwombat

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2013, 10:48:35 PM »
not hard with a good FF and good glass

this is a 100% crop of an unedited raw no flash just ambient light
from a handheld snapshot 5dmk3 and sigma 85 f1.4 shot at f2 and lowish iso cant remember exaclty but it was 400 or less


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RickSpringfield

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2013, 01:06:00 PM »
not hard with a good FF and good glass
- Amazing shot.

This is what I am chasing.  I watch the KelbyTraining stuff and see these photos they have on their card after a shoot and my jaw hits the floor.  I mean, comparing just sharpness to sharpness its night and day different.

Is it the Full Frame?  I mean is that the real key here?  If you spend 5k you get an amazing image, but if you spend 2k you get really good, but not amazing?

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2013, 01:26:40 PM »
not hard with a good FF and good glass
- Amazing shot.

This is what I am chasing.  I watch the KelbyTraining stuff and see these photos they have on their card after a shoot and my jaw hits the floor.  I mean, comparing just sharpness to sharpness its night and day different.

Is it the Full Frame?  I mean is that the real key here?  If you spend 5k you get an amazing image, but if you spend 2k you get really good, but not amazing?

 
Its a matter of learning the best settings for your equipment.  Using a lens wide open will not result in optimum sharpness.  Photography is all about light.  As others have said, the right light makes a huge difference, I'd spend some time working with light.  By this, I mean do not use that flash on your camera, get separate flash units off the camera, or better yet, other off camera lighting.
 
I made my own lighting using 4 ft cri 98 fluorescent lamps with electronic ballasts in 4 lamp fixtures.  I have them above, to either side, and even below if needed, so there is usually 12 lamps going.  I do have cloth diffusers to place over them when needed, and a light cube that will sit on the table to photograph reflective products like chrome objects.
Digital cameras love this type of light, its even and the right color temperature.  The compact fluorescent bulbs can be a problem, but not high end tubes.  I have to order them by the box of 25, you can't get them at a big box hardware store.
 
You can see my light table in this snapshot, I use it for product photography and have different colored backdrops that are wrapped around a piece of rigid foam, so I can pop them in place quickly.  I have a pc that I tether to my camera, and a tripod head bolted to a massive steel angle on the front of the table for close shots.
 
No need to spend hundreds of dollars for lighting.  I do have several stand mounted lights, but they mostly sit in storage because my table does all of my products.
 

 
 
 

J.R.

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2013, 01:42:08 PM »
Here is a natural light P&S image, it has all sliders set to zero, there is no sharpening applied, the 100% crop corresponds to a 700% or so crop on a FF camera.


Just curious ... How did you come up with 700 percent?
Light is language!

RickSpringfield

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2013, 01:47:27 PM »
Ok, here is another go.  This time taking into account some recommendations from the crew here:

105mm
F5.6
200 Shutter
100 ISO
Tripod
10 Second Timer (not cable release)
Canon 430ex II through a diffusion umbrella positioned 3.5' away at a 45 degree angle high right at 2 o clock


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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2013, 01:47:27 PM »

J.R.

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2013, 02:05:01 PM »
Here is a natural light P&S image, it has all sliders set to zero, there is no sharpening applied, the 100% crop corresponds to a 700% or so crop on a FF camera.


Just curious ... How did you come up with 700 percent?
I was using the crop factor to reinforce the idea of sensor area that has been reproduced. I am probably out a bit as I guestimated and didn't take the time to do the maths (DOH!), but my point was a 100% crop from a 14 MP 7.6 x 5.7 sensor is a much greater magnification than a 100% crop from a 20mp 24 x 36 sensor, and you shouldn't expect as much.

Seeing as how my image has zero sharpening and the lens is not anything to write home about I think the detail and sharpness in the very narrow plane of focus is pretty remarkable.

I'm probably out a bit too ... It's 11:30 pm here.

BTW, I understood that 100% crop on any system will be the same. The image remains the same and it's only cropped by the size of the sensor.

Sorry if this is off topic.
Light is language!

Sporgon

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 02:07:52 PM »
20 mp is about 12% bigger than 14. The format those pixels are arranged in is irrelevant to reproduction size.

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Re: Chasing Tack Sharp ... Just can't get there
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2013, 02:07:52 PM »