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Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 218563 times)

Harry Muff

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #180 on: June 14, 2013, 03:40:32 PM »
I think mostly you get what you pay for, I'de be a little miffed if Canon sold the 6D for 2k and it performed exactly as a 5DMK III (3.4k) or a 1Dx. (7.5k)

Likewise, people are a little miffed that the 6D has less cross points than a Rebel ($750).

I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...


The really sad thing is I have a feeling that someone, somewhere in the world has managed come up with an AF competition.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #180 on: June 14, 2013, 03:40:32 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #181 on: June 14, 2013, 03:46:21 PM »

My original point that was that the "outer" 6d points are too much centered so that there is too much recomposing needed resulting in a focus loss with thin dof. On 60d, the outer points are really outside and the way to move the camera is shorter...


When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then.  However, that diagram was inaccurate.  There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful.  I generally don't want to put the plane of sharp focus only on a subject that is literally almost touching the frame's outside border...and that's the only situation I would say that the outer AF points would cause too much camera movement, if recomposing after focus.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3...or preferably...the 1DX's replacement.  I had thought it would not get replaced until late 2015.  But based on recent rumors, it now looks like it will be first or second quarter 2015, with announcement by mid to late 2014.  That's an announcement only a year or so from now...

So that means to me, that if I need a 1DX before then, it would make more monetary sense to rent one...or else borrow my cousin's.  One thing I don't want to do, is buy a $6700 camera that is soon to be replaced, and then wind up selling it a year later for $4500 or less.  The time to buy a 1 series, is most definitely the first year it gets released.

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #182 on: June 14, 2013, 08:01:12 PM »
I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

The latest Rebel 700d has the 60d af system, actually even with a slight upgrade afaik - so I'd take that challenge anytime: When focusing & recomposing with thin dof for mid-frame to the edges I'd wager the guess that I'd get more into af with the 60d than the 6d... the 6d might be more precise, but that won't do you any good if that precision is lost while recomposing.

When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then.  However, that diagram was inaccurate.  There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful.

Hmmm, when I tried the 6d recently (they have them on live display, you can play around as long as you like) my feeling was otherwise, but it's great it's working for you.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3.

Yeah, right, I'll just have to switch on my money printer :-p ... and I also think the current ff line is to be replaced rather sooner than later once Canon has new sensor tech which is overdue.

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #183 on: June 14, 2013, 08:33:22 PM »
I would be happy to participate with my 6D, in any autofocus challenge with anyone who has any Rebel...

The latest Rebel 700d has the 60d af system, actually even with a slight upgrade afaik - so I'd take that challenge anytime: When focusing & recomposing with thin dof for mid-frame to the edges I'd wager the guess that I'd get more into af with the 60d than the 6d... the 6d might be more precise, but that won't do you any good if that precision is lost while recomposing.

When I first saw a diagram of the AF array for the 6D, before it came out, I would have agreed with you then.  However, that diagram was inaccurate.  There really isn't that much space outside the focus points on the 6D...so they're plenty useful.

Hmmm, when I tried the 6d recently (they have them on live display, you can play around as long as you like) my feeling was otherwise, but it's great it's working for you.

If you need the best autofocus from Canon, buy a 1DX, or 5D3.

Yeah, right, I'll just have to switch on my money printer :-p ... and I also think the current ff line is to be replaced rather sooner than later once Canon has new sensor tech which is overdue.

If you are anywhere near Tennessee, you are welcome to come by and we'll have a little autofocus competition. :-D

I know they have the 6D on display everywhere...after having tried one at a display for 30 seconds, I knew it was time to forget 1.6x crop sensors forever!  I love everything about it...weight...ergonomics, image quality, price to performance ratio.  I admit I bought it from Adorama rather than from Best Buy, because they wanted the full $1999.99, plus tax, and I got mine for $1760 total.  That's over $400 less than Best Buy...

I absolutely hate the feel of the 60D, and also could never stand the flip out screen, or the lack of autofocus microadjustment.  My 50D at least had that.  Its body was also a lot more rigid...being a solid magnesium subframe, rather than partially plastic.  To each their own though.  The 6D's frame is supposed to not be all magnesium either, but it feels plenty rigid to me.

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #184 on: June 15, 2013, 05:34:17 AM »
I absolutely hate the feel of the 60D, and also could never stand the flip out screen, or the lack of autofocus microadjustment.  My 50D at least had that.  Its body was also a lot more rigid...being a solid magnesium subframe, rather than partially plastic.  To each their own though.  The 6D's frame is supposed to not be all magnesium either, but it feels plenty rigid to me.

Then Canon hit the spot for you with the 6d, consider yourself lucky, and I understand if you had a 50d. For me with the 60d as my first dlsr, it'´s the other way around:

Just now I really like it because I often use the swivel screen for odd angle shots (with Magic Lantern focus peaking) and tripod macro (with Magic Lantern focus stacking). If I drop the camera, the lens or flash will break, but the non-mag camera is rather bound to bounce than break (there recently was a thread of metal vs plastic body). Plus most of my shots with crop right now are @iso100-400 and 300mm, some with higher fps then 6d...

I'd buy the 6d for the US price as my *other* dslr body, but in Germany maybe I'll wait some more until autumn because the price is dropping, of course it's a good camera, it's simply severs completely other purpose than the 60d.

Btw one really good feature of the digic5 6d over the digic4 cameras (60d, 5d2) is that there are better Magic Lantern features - raw video, high-res silent pics w/o moving the mirror, ...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2013, 05:55:46 AM by Marsu42 »

mwh1964

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #185 on: June 16, 2013, 02:37:12 PM »
The 6D is 80 percent of the 5D3. But those 20 percent counts for me enough to get the latter.
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sdsr

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #186 on: June 16, 2013, 04:57:03 PM »

This thread is getting a bit long and random, but I have a new & real question here. Today I had a test with the 6d (again :-)) with the 70-300L and while I still feel the 6d is overpriced (Germany: 1700€) for various reasons I ran into a real issue:

How do you manage to get something in focus in the corners?

Obviously it's me because people have been shooting with the 5d2 and thin dof lenses for years, but I cannot seem to manage - on my 60d the outer af points are further from the center, but on the 6d once I focus and recompose the focus is off most of the time. Are there any tutorials how to do it? How do you do it - trial and error, then take the in focus shots?

I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners?  Every one I've tried has them all lumped together in a similar area to the 6D's - the main difference with, say, the 5DIII or Nikon D600 in that regard is density of focus points; there's still a large amount of the viewfinder that has none, including the corners.  It's not much of a problem for me with my 6D and 5DII as I hardly ever want something in a corner to be the focal point, but if it really matters to you, try an Olympus OM-D (for all I know the same is true of other mirrorless cameras) - the focus points cover the entire viewfinder, including the far corners, and are all equally accurate; I sometimes find myself using them just because I can!

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #186 on: June 16, 2013, 04:57:03 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #187 on: June 16, 2013, 06:03:15 PM »
I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners?

I know, but at least the 5d3 has the af points not as much in the center as 5d2/5d3, so it's probably less way to move the camera to focus & recompose. Nikon d600 isn't any better in this matter afaik btw.

I just wanted to ask around here for experiences when recomposing with a small dof on ff because with the 6d I found it much harder than with my 60d, of course /me lacking the proper technique.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #188 on: June 17, 2013, 01:16:59 AM »
I understand your concern, but is there such a thing as a FF camera with autofocus points in the corners?

I know, but at least the 5d3 has the af points not as much in the center as 5d2/5d3, so it's probably less way to move the camera to focus & recompose. Nikon d600 isn't any better in this matter afaik btw.

I just wanted to ask around here for experiences when recomposing with a small dof on ff because with the 6d I found it much harder than with my 60d, of course /me lacking the proper technique.


an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want.  The AF point spread on the 5d3 is good I think, remember that on most lenses if you push your focus to far to the corners your getting the softest part of the lens (depending on what lens your using of course.  Most lenses though are sharpest in the areas where most camera have their main focus points, so, consider either shooting wider, or putting more space between you and the subject then cropping...

Got to give my new 6d a hard working test this weekend, a good old wedding.  It didn't skip a beat.  As the dance floor got a bit more active, I did switch to the 5d3 because the servo mode is much better, but even with that said the 6d performed pretty damn good.  I I felt confident with it, which was something I worried about when considering the purchase.  It does make a real nice partner for the mk3.

Here's a few from the reception ---unedited (I haven't even transfered images to hard drive - these are the jpeg rendered via the wifi ap and emailed to myself!).  I am going to give them a nice polish, but, still not fricken bad!!!
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Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #189 on: June 17, 2013, 06:58:09 AM »
an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want.

Looking at your shots, I see what you mean - it's just I'm not overly happy that the most practical solution to the "thin dof and soft edges" problem is less recomposing but more cropping - if I plan to regularly crop from the 20mp ff sensor I could just keep shooting with a real 18mp crop sensor :-p

Disclaimer (again): The 6d is a good/ok (depending on what value you see for the price) camera, my question here is about specific shooting situations.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #190 on: June 17, 2013, 11:33:32 AM »
an idea or 2 --- try stepping back, and framing the shot wider when you are working with extreme DOF - then crop to get the composition you want.

Looking at your shots, I see what you mean - it's just I'm not overly happy that the most practical solution to the "thin dof and soft edges" problem is less recomposing but more cropping - if I plan to regularly crop from the 20mp ff sensor I could just keep shooting with a real 18mp crop sensor :-p

Disclaimer (again): The 6d is a good/ok (depending on what value you see for the price) camera, my question here is about specific shooting situations.

how often do you do shots like this?  and, at what time of day?  There is the option of using a less shallow DOF.  Even on the 7d which had a fairly wide spread of AF points, it wasn't like you had corner to corner coverage.  If you wanted to your subject at the far left, or the far right you still had to focus recompose, crop it in post, or stop it down to f4-f8.  I don't think there is any SLR out there that has a wide enough point spread for all situations...and the farthest to the right or left will only be on the center line of the frame.

The only advantage staying on a crop sensor might give you is that due to the crop your not using the softer portions of the lens, but DOF will still be an issue as the same OOF areas will be OFF if the shot is framed in the same way.

Also, DOF and OOF areas --- one of the reasons I say frame it wider is - the further back you get from the subject, more of your subject will be in the plane of focus so less of them will be OOF. 

Either way, if your doing extreme corner focusing, nothing out there other than shooting in live view and manual focusing will get you there because as far as I know, there is no such camera that has AF points in the extreme corners--



« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 11:37:26 AM by Chuck Alaimo »
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Skirball

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #191 on: June 17, 2013, 12:35:44 PM »




That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera.  It's far tighter and more centered than that.

Wildfire

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #192 on: June 17, 2013, 01:33:16 PM »
That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera.  It's far tighter and more centered than that.

Agreed.

The 5D3 image shows the entire frame, the 6D one is just the AF points in a box smaller than the actual frame.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #192 on: June 17, 2013, 01:33:16 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #193 on: June 17, 2013, 01:35:53 PM »
That 6D image isn't remotely close to the actual spread on the camera.  It's far tighter and more centered than that.

Agreed.

The 5D3 image shows the entire frame, the 6D one is just the AF points in a box smaller than the actual frame.

it was the best image of the spread i could find in a 2 min search...sorry...either way, the point is that your still not getting corner to corner coverage with any of these AF systems
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Hannes

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #194 on: June 17, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »
What the 40/50D does well at least is how the middle points on the diagonals are located spot on in the intersections for rule of thirds and that is after all where a good amount of shots will want the focus

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #194 on: June 17, 2013, 01:42:37 PM »