6D Autofocus not impressive

[Marsu42]

Plenty have benefitted from your research on the 6D. BTW, I do hope you finally take the plunge and get it before Canon releases a 6D Mark II

I recently bought a lot of lighting accessories and books, so for the time being I am surprised how much better pictures I keep getting out of my 60d - so I'm not in a hurry, I'll wait until the 6d is @1500€ (currently €1700, dropping 20-30€ every week). And even then I'll probably buy some Yongnuo radio tiggers and flashes first - that doesn't exactly fix low light shooting, but is a real boost for creativity...

Speaking of that...gotta wonder if the 6d will be like the other 'entry'  level canons ---rebels get refreshed yearly, so will the 6d get refreshed yearly?  bi-yearly?

... I don't think so, that's why I'm not in a hurry to buy a 6d. To me it seems Canon designed the 6d to stay awhile around, though they'll probably upgrade their more expensive models to a newer sensor soon. And when they have competitive sensors again, the pressure from Nikon will be lower, and Canon will try again to market a top aps-c model in the €2000 class, reserving full frame for the rich and famous.

[RLPhoto]

It funny you mention buying new, then 6D cost 2100$ at BHphoto, which generally most purchase from. Bad value.

It's funny that you keep mentioning this, even though it's been pointed out several times in this very thread that that's not the price at B&H.  Looks like it's $1779 at B&H.

Yes, It's 1800$. I must have viewed an old page.

Not bad, but I can find mk2s locally for 1200$. Still A bad value.

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Wow, this thread has gotten really inane.  Everyone take a deep breath, back away, and move on...

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Wow, this thread has gotten really inane.  Everyone take a deep breath, back away, and move on...

+1, No intelligent life down here Scotty

[Skirball]

Wow, this thread has gotten really inane.  Everyone take a deep breath, back away, and move on...

In our defense, it didn't really start out all that great, and it was pretty much crap by page 2, so I wouldn't really say it went downhill as much as just, well, festered for a bit.

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Wow, this thread has gotten really inane.  Everyone take a deep breath, back away, and move on...

In our defense, it didn't really start out all that great, and it was pretty much crap by page 2, so I wouldn't really say it went downhill as much as just, well, festered for a bit.

LOL.  Honesty is good for the soul, or the complexion, or the bowels, or something like that...

[CarlTN]

<moderated>

Here is a shot via my new 6D, of a cheap tapestry...a test, shot only as a jpg, with my 135 f/2.  It is hand-held, interior lighting (admittedly terrible...part of the challenge)...it's even cropped a little.

The ISO is 20,000 (view it full size).  The luminance slider in ACR was at 43, while the chrominance slider was only at 24 (below the usual default for chrominance).  I slightly boosted detail and sharpening with about 1.8 radius.  Yes there's some of both types of noise left...but I'm just blown away by the quality and color here...and in such poor light.  It is knocking on 1DX territory for noise (at least at this 20k level), in my opinion.  The 5D3 would look about like this, at ISO 3200, but with even higher settings for both types of NR sliders...because its luminance noise in particular, is quite severe.

I will state again, and hopefully it won't get deleted again...that the 6D is not a poor value after all.  I was skeptical about it as well, I even said so on here.  Search and read for yourself if you doubt me.  My concern was how much the price would drop on used units.  Now I'm less concerned.  It's possible the price will still drop down into the $1200 range on the used market, if not by summer 2013, then by the end of the year.  But I hope to keep mine a few years anyway.

[CarlTN]

Oh, and I had all in-camera NR turned off.

[Skirball]

The dead horse isn't anything but shell cordovan scraps at this point Carl.  Nothing said is going to sway anyone at this point, and besides, nobody was debating the IQ it's all a cost/benefit analysis, which is different for everyone.

[Wildfire]

Yes, It's 1800$. I must have viewed an old page.

Not bad, but I can find mk2s locally for 1200$. Still A bad value.

The 6D is not a bad value. As a matter of fact, the 5D2 is the bad value... allow me to explain:

If you care about high-ISO noise performance, then the 6D is an incredible value at $1800 because it provides the same high-ISO performance as a $2500* 5D3 or $6000 1DX.

If you don't care about high-ISO noise performance, a used 5D2 is a bad value because it costs $1200 and has crappy autofocus whereas a used 7D can be had for $900 and has superior autofocus.

*Please do not say that the 5D3 is easily available for $2375 or whatever refurbished. That price is only when you buy direct from Canon, and Canon adds sales tax and shipping which drives the price closer to or over $2500.

[BrettS]

I think that in this context, value is a subjective term.

For me, the 6D provides good value. For someone else, it might not. Do your research, make your own decision.

IMHO absolute statements about value don't help the conversation.

[randyg]

You guys seem to have lots of complaints. I just switched from a Nikon D90 to a 6D and I am thrilled with it. My first Canon.

[RLPhoto]

Yes, It's 1800$. I must have viewed an old page.

Not bad, but I can find mk2s locally for 1200$. Still A bad value.

The 6D is not a bad value. As a matter of fact, the 5D2 is the bad value... allow me to explain:

If you care about high-ISO noise performance, then the 6D is an incredible value at $1800 because it provides the same high-ISO performance as a $2500* 5D3 or $6000 1DX.

If you don't care about high-ISO noise performance, a used 5D2 is a bad value because it costs $1200 and has crappy autofocus whereas a used 7D can be had for $900 and has superior autofocus.

*Please do not say that the 5D3 is easily available for $2375 or whatever refurbished. That price is only when you buy direct from Canon, and Canon adds sales tax and shipping which drives the price closer to or over $2500.

I disagree, don't discount the MK3 sales price when the 6D sales price is 1800$. The 6D also has he equally crappy AF as the 5D2. Fell free to read my previous posts.

[Wildfire]

I disagree, don't discount the MK3 sales price when the 6D sales price is 1800$. The 6D also has he equally crappy AF as the 5D2. Fell free to read my previous posts.

I'm not going by a sale price, I'm going by the actual price at which you can easily acquire the camera. There is nowhere you can buy a brand new or refurbished 5D3 and only pay $2375. Nowhere. There is one place where they advertise $2375 as the price, but you are going to pay closer to $2500 after shipping and tax. On the other hand, the 6D is easily and readily available at many major online camera retailers, brand new for an ACTUAL price of $1800 (or less, see Amazon). That is how much you pay for the 6D in total, including shipping and tax.

The 6D AF is slightly improved over the 5D2. The extra two points are meaningless, but I've found that the center point focuses excellently in low light and all of the points in general are more accurate compared to the 5D2. Other than those 2 minor things, however, you're right: the 6D autofocus sucks and I wish I had a 5D3 because I rarely compose images with the subject directly in the center of the frame.

But that's not my point. My point is this that the 5D2 is a bad value and it has no place in the current Canon lineup. No matter what your priorities are, there is a camera out there that does what the 5D2 does but better. See here:
5D3: Great low-light performance. Excellent autofocus. $2500 (refurbished).
6D: Excellent low-light performance. Mediocre autofocus. $1800 (new).
7D: Bad low-light performance. Great autofocus. $900 (used).
5D2: Medicore low-light performance. Bad autofocus. $1200 (used).

Care about low-light performance AND autofocus? Get the 5D3, but pay a high price.
Care about low-light performance, but not autofocus? Get the 6D, lower price than 5D3 but low-light performance that is miles ahead of the 5D2.
Don't care about low-light performance, but do care about price? Get the 7D, for its superior autofocus over the 5D2, and yet an even lower price as well.

If you look this completely objectively, you can see that the 5D2 has the worst value of these four cameras. I'm not saying it's a bad camera. I'm not saying you should get rid of yours immediately if you still have one. I'm just saying if you're starting from scratch there's really no reason to get the 5D2. If your priority is low-light performance, the 5D3 and the 6D are better. If your priority is getting a good price, then the 7D is better. If your priority is getting a good autofocus, then the 5D3 and the 7D are better. There is no scenario in which the 5D2 is better.

I'm not saying you're wrong, RLPhoto. And I normally enjoy reading your posts as you usually make a great contribution to the threads here. But this time, I have a strong opinion that your logic is flawed. Why can't you just admit that there is NOTHING* the 5D2 can do better than the 6D but there are SOME THINGS that the 6D can do better than the 5D2?

*Except for price. But as I've stated, if price is your priority then the 7D with it's superior autofocus and high frame-rate is superior to the 5D2 and still available at a lower price. Better value than the 5D2, even with price as your priority.

[RLPhoto]

Every point you've made, I've already discussed. I really don't feel posting anymore would make a difference.