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Author Topic: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds  (Read 6645 times)

acelegendary

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Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« on: April 15, 2013, 02:27:18 PM »
Hey there,

Long time reader, first time poster.

I recently filmed an engagement session, and wanted to utilize a shallow depth of field in bright light without an ND filter. So, knowing that I would end up slowing the footage down to 40%, I cranked up the shutter speed in order to hit around f/2. The results? Well, see for yourself:

http://acelegendary.com/blog/2013/4/9/sean-liz-save-the-date
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Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« on: April 15, 2013, 02:27:18 PM »

Axilrod

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2013, 03:09:10 PM »
I take it your pleased with the result based on your response, but I can tell you used a high shutter speed here and it seems to have affected the motion blur.  Whether or not the effect is positive is subjective, but I personally don't like it.  Doesn't look bad or anything just not great IMO, then again 60P is kind of the bare minimum for slowmo so you can only expect so much out of it.  I'm sure the client is elated and that's what matters in the end.
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acelegendary

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2013, 04:50:09 PM »
Yeah, it's pretty obvious that a high shutter speed was used, but getting that shallow DoF without an ND filter would've been impossible.

Under normal circumstances, however, I try not to break the 180 rule too much.

And yes, they loved it  ;)
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dirtcastle

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2013, 05:06:07 PM »
Nice work! What camera?

Drizzt321

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2013, 05:10:39 PM »
Quite nice, and a very good job keeping the focus where you wanted it at f/2. What supports/focus puller/etc did you use?
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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2013, 05:18:29 PM »
I'm a video noob. And I'm curious... What's wrong with shooting at 60fps?

I understand how ND filters work with aperture, but if slo-mo is what you want, why would you shoot at 30fps with an ND filter, rather than 60fps without one?

Drizzt321

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 05:47:53 PM »
I'm a video noob. And I'm curious... What's wrong with shooting at 60fps?

I understand how ND filters work with aperture, but if slo-mo is what you want, why would you shoot at 30fps with an ND filter, rather than 60fps without one?

Nothing wrong with shooting at 60fps, in fact it's often used so that in post-production you cut the output framerate in half to get 30fps output so you double the time it takes, which give slow-motion.

Beyond that, the general rule in video is to get a 180-degree shutter which gives a nice, smooth look you shoot at 1/(shutter speed * 2). So for 30fps you shoot with a shutter of 1/60, and with 60fps you shoot at 1/120, or as close to that as you can get (so 1/125 on most DSLRs). So the only way to control exposure is with ISO or aperture, or to use ND filters to cut the amount of light. Since the OP wanted a very shallow DoF he needed to use some ND filters to cut the light to allow his aperture to be wider since he undoubtedly had his ISO set very low (100-200). Since he had no ND filters, he had to raise the shutter speed significantly. This can give video a more stilted look, since every frame is much 'sharper' and there won't be any motion blur like you can sometimes get with the slower shutter speeds.
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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2013, 05:47:53 PM »

dirtcastle

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 06:00:40 PM »
I'm a video noob. And I'm curious... What's wrong with shooting at 60fps?

I understand how ND filters work with aperture, but if slo-mo is what you want, why would you shoot at 30fps with an ND filter, rather than 60fps without one?

Nothing wrong with shooting at 60fps, in fact it's often used so that in post-production you cut the output framerate in half to get 30fps output so you double the time it takes, which give slow-motion.

Beyond that, the general rule in video is to get a 180-degree shutter which gives a nice, smooth look you shoot at 1/(shutter speed * 2). So for 30fps you shoot with a shutter of 1/60, and with 60fps you shoot at 1/120, or as close to that as you can get (so 1/125 on most DSLRs). So the only way to control exposure is with ISO or aperture, or to use ND filters to cut the amount of light. Since the OP wanted a very shallow DoF he needed to use some ND filters to cut the light to allow his aperture to be wider since he undoubtedly had his ISO set very low (100-200). Since he had no ND filters, he had to raise the shutter speed significantly. This can give video a more stilted look, since every frame is much 'sharper' and there won't be any motion blur like you can sometimes get with the slower shutter speeds.

Very well explained! Thank you. I'm saving up for a variable ND filter.

risc32

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2013, 06:14:00 PM »
i don't know much about video, but i've heard of a 180degree rule, but it had nothing to do with shutter speed.

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 06:48:58 PM »
I take it your pleased with the result based on your response, but I can tell you used a high shutter speed here and it seems to have affected the motion blur.  Whether or not the effect is positive is subjective, but I personally don't like it.  Doesn't look bad or anything just not great IMO, then again 60P is kind of the bare minimum for slowmo so you can only expect so much out of it.  I'm sure the client is elated and that's what matters in the end.


I thought the results were outstanding; I like the way each frame is crystal clear (to each his own, I suppose).  Now that I know the 'why', I plan on experimenting with high shutter speed video.

To the OP, thank you for posting that.

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 06:54:06 PM »
Impressive and inspiring.

I'm a photographer and this makes me want to go out and shoot video - with no ND filter!

Thanks for sharing.

Drizzt321

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2013, 07:34:38 PM »
i don't know much about video, but i've heard of a 180degree rule, but it had nothing to do with shutter speed.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutter_speed#Cinematographic_shutter_formula, it comes from the mechanical rotary shutter traditional video cameras have used. I suppose it's not really called the 180-degree rule, it's just that's what stuck with me in my head from the traditional 24fps @1/48s shutter speed.
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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2013, 07:36:35 PM »
I'm a video noob. And I'm curious... What's wrong with shooting at 60fps?

I understand how ND filters work with aperture, but if slo-mo is what you want, why would you shoot at 30fps with an ND filter, rather than 60fps without one?

Nothing wrong with shooting at 60fps, in fact it's often used so that in post-production you cut the output framerate in half to get 30fps output so you double the time it takes, which give slow-motion.

Beyond that, the general rule in video is to get a 180-degree shutter which gives a nice, smooth look you shoot at 1/(shutter speed * 2). So for 30fps you shoot with a shutter of 1/60, and with 60fps you shoot at 1/120, or as close to that as you can get (so 1/125 on most DSLRs). So the only way to control exposure is with ISO or aperture, or to use ND filters to cut the amount of light. Since the OP wanted a very shallow DoF he needed to use some ND filters to cut the light to allow his aperture to be wider since he undoubtedly had his ISO set very low (100-200). Since he had no ND filters, he had to raise the shutter speed significantly. This can give video a more stilted look, since every frame is much 'sharper' and there won't be any motion blur like you can sometimes get with the slower shutter speeds.

Very well explained! Thank you. I'm saving up for a variable ND filter.

You're welcome! Comes from hanging around film guys too much. Sometimes it seems that's all there is here in LA, but really just the friends I have.

I'd take a look at http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=14219.0 thread in which there's a good video about variable-ND filters. They may be useful, but they also have their downsides.
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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2013, 07:36:35 PM »

LOALTD

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2013, 08:11:45 PM »
Hey there,

Long time reader, first time poster.

I recently filmed an engagement session, and wanted to utilize a shallow depth of field in bright light without an ND filter. So, knowing that I would end up slowing the footage down to 40%, I cranked up the shutter speed in order to hit around f/2. The results? Well, see for yourself:

http://acelegendary.com/blog/2013/4/9/sean-liz-save-the-date

Holy hell, that looks FANTASTIC!  I usually obey the shutter speed rule as well, but, thanks to you, I am now unafraid to break it!

You make me want to marry someone just so I can hire you to make one of these!

acelegendary

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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 08:16:36 PM »
Quite nice, and a very good job keeping the focus where you wanted it at f/2. What supports/focus puller/etc did you use?

I used a Glidecam HD2000, but tilted it upside down. For the most part, I just set the plane of focus to a few feet in front of me and tried to keep pace with them. No focus puller :)
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Re: Results: Filming 720p 60fps at super high shutter speeds
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2013, 08:16:36 PM »