April 21, 2014, 11:58:47 AM

Author Topic: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!  (Read 13145 times)

Hill Benson

  • PowerShot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 47
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2013, 07:35:32 PM »
Smell like a Monopoly effect to me. They are just as bad as Quark imo.
It's 2013 FFS, they should offer both options.
Box Brownie 2AL

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2013, 07:35:32 PM »

Meh

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2013, 11:52:08 PM »
Since it showed up in so many blog posts, news feeds, etc. I finally took a read at the article posted by diglloyd.  Regarding his first item "Stealing your name or trademark" his interpretation of the language in the Terms of Use is way off base.   In no way does it say Adobe has the right to give a registered trademark of yours to someone else or use it for their own purposes.  That would be illegal and Adobe's contract can not supercede the law.

It only says that you may be required to create a unique url which you can imagine would be for your personal web page at Adobe.com to display something.  Let's say I come along and create my unique url and choose "TheRollingStones.adobe.com" or as someone else posted "DisneyStudios.adobe.com".  Adobe needs a clause in their EULA to give them the right to disallow you to use that and subsequently allow the rightful owner of the trademarked name to use it.

Or maybe someone creates their url with profanity in it, or references to illegal images, or hate language, or "AdobeSucks.adobe.com".   They wouldn't want any of those for obvious reasons and need the right to terminate your use of it.

If diglloyd comes along and properly used diglloyd.adobe.com they would not disallow him that as they would have no reason.  But if I come along and register diglloyd.adobe.com he might be thankful they have that clause in there so he can stop my use of it.

It may seem one-sided in Adobe's favor but in reality it just gives them the authority to do the right thing in the case of abuses or improper use by users.

As for the other complaints in the article they too are stretches but not quite so off base.   The issue with the service being down is a legitimate concern except that you are not working in the cloud.  You would only have a problem if their system was down and you needed to download an application that wasn't already installed on your machine.  But that is unlikely and ultimately they have to protect themselves because it's not inconceivable they will have an outage and without that clause (which is a form of an indemnity clause and those are in just about every licence agreement) they'd have thousands of frivolous lawsuits on their hands which would cost millions just defending them.

The entire article is an over reaction just has been most of the ranting and raving about CC.  The complaint that it's more expensive is valid but it's not that much more expensive.  The overall cost difference is on the order of $100-200 dollars per year for people who use just PS and upgrade every other release or less.  Some of the reactions make it sound like this is going to cost thousands of dollars per year and make PS inaccessible to photographers.

The overreactions come down to the simple fact that some people just don't like change and get all baked at the mere thought that they are losing control and bad things might happen no matter how unlikely they may be.  OMG, Adobe might steal my trademark and I just can't risk the possibility of that... seriously man, how do you leave the house... do you know what the likliehood of dying in a car crash is every time you drive?  Much much higher than Adobe stealing your trademark!

Hobby Shooter

  • Guest
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2013, 12:03:37 AM »
I hate cloud. This is not directed against Adobe specifically, it's against all cloud. I hate it for single user environments, I hate it for storage purposes. It brings no value at all for a hobby or semi pro photographer, only hassle and lower productivity.

Meh

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2013, 12:19:33 AM »
It just occurred to me... just like so many have complained about "renting" vs. "owning" software, the diglloyd article also complains about making an investment into software that is only rented and what if Adobe decides down the road to shut down CC... sucks to just rent software, pay month after month, year after year, and then poof no more access.  Well... does anyone here subscribe to diglloyd... he charges fees but his website does not allow any downloads as pdf etc. and you have to be connected to the web to read his articles.  Well what happens after months and years of subscribing he shuts it down and I can't access the information I paid for... well, guess I was just renting it and too bad for me right.  What if his site goes down for a week, does he reimburse all his subscribers for the lost time they paid for... I should hope so if he's going to complain about Adobe for having the same effin rental model he himself uses!

Here's a link to his page with details of his information rental business...

http://diglloyd.com/catalog.html

And a quote...  "Yes, this publishing model is unusual. However, it has worked well for thousands of subscribers for eight years and is well-suited to the ongoing additions"

So... his unusual model works well for some users and works well for ongoing additions.  Hmmmm.... just like Creative Cloud.


dgatwood

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 403
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2013, 02:33:08 AM »
Adobe and many other companies have to say this in their product agreement for legal purposes but it doesn't mean it'll do that. Can you think about the reason why Adobe may not like you, a customer who pays money buying their products, and terminate your account?

Happens all the time.  Company A buys company B and kills their products.  If you bought that app, you're annoyed because there won't be any future updates, and you'll eventually have to move off of it.  If you're renting it by the month, you're hiring contractors to help you move off of the app before it stops working (at most) 180 days later.


It just occurred to me... just like so many have complained about "renting" vs. "owning" software, the diglloyd article also complains about making an investment into software that is only rented and what if Adobe decides down the road to shut down CC... sucks to just rent software, pay month after month, year after year, and then poof no more access.  Well... does anyone here subscribe to diglloyd... he charges fees but his website does not allow any downloads as pdf etc. and you have to be connected to the web to read his articles.  Well what happens after months and years of subscribing he shuts it down and I can't access the information I paid for... well, guess I was just renting it and too bad for me right.  What if his site goes down for a week, does he reimburse all his subscribers for the lost time they paid for... I should hope so if he's going to complain about Adobe for having the same effin rental model he himself uses!

Not really the same thing.  If a website goes down, you've lost access to articles.  Yes, I'd expect them to extend your subscription if it is down for very long, but frankly, even if the site went away, the only thing you've actually lost is the last month's subscription fee, or the last year's fee if you were subscribing on an annual basis.  It's peanuts.

With creative software, if you lose access to that software, unless someone else manages to create a bug-for-bug compatible Photoshop clone that can read your existing files perfectly, you stand to lose all the time and effort that you have invested in creating content with that software.

That's a much, much bigger deal.  Comparing renting software to a magazine subscription is just not a valid comparison.  Renting software is more like renting the land under your house.  Yes, under certain circumstances, it might be the only option, but there's always that risk that tomorrow, you'll get a notice that you have to tear down your house.

Even if I were willing to rent software (and I'm not), I would consider the use of any new features in future versions of Photoshop to be playing with fire.  If Adobe ever goes under, any files that use those features are going to become unreadable 180 days later.  By everyone.  Worldwide.

And honestly, that isn't as unlikely as it sounds.  Given how badly Adobe has botched pretty much every aspect of Flash, PDF, Digital Editions, etc., I'm amazed Adobe is still in business today.  Every year, I have less faith in their products than the year before.  This is a company whose stock is basically priced the same as it was twelve years ago—you'd do about as well sticking your money in a sock under your mattress.  That isn't a sign of a strong, growing company.  It's a sign of a company with no real leadership, with no real drive to improve their products, and no real insight into how they can expand their market share.

And now, instead of actually improving their products, lowering cost, or any of the other things they could do to drive adoption, they're resorting to milking their existing customers for more money.  Their logic is, "Those greedy people won't buy every update, so we'll do a subscription so that they have to pay for it all the time," ignoring the fact that people don't buy every update because they haven't actually improved the product significantly in any way that actually matters.  (Ooh.  It's grey now.)  The problem is that most people's natural reaction to such tactics is, "Bye."

Now not everybody can move off of Photoshop right away, but lots of people are looking for alternatives now who were content to periodically upgrade before.  And in the long term, that's going to really hurt Adobe.  Because the main reason people buy Adobe products is the same reason that people buy Microsoft products—compatibility.  They know that their files will "just work".  When you start to see half the small studios running Pixelmator and Acorn and Gimp and Corel PaintShop Pro, the main rationale for spending that kind of money goes away, and more and more people begin to more carefully examine their continued use of Photoshop.  It's like a tiny snowflake that snowballs into an avalanche.

Of course, Microsoft is encouraging people to rent their software, too.  Historically, such rapid increases in pricing like we're seeing here are generally the last gasp of a monopoly player as they succumb to competition, gouging fewer and fewer customers for more and more money in order to stay afloat.  In Microsoft's case, they're suddenly facing stiff competition from Google Docs and OpenOffice, and they're scared that they may soon lose the ability to milk that cash cow, so they're looking for any means that they can to prolong the decline of that revenue stream.  I have little doubt that Adobe is doing the same thing with CC.

But perhaps I'm wrong.  Perhaps all those small studios will be so enthralled with the new software that they'll be willing to spend $240 per year instead of buying a $300 upgrade every six years.  I wouldn't bet money on it, though, which is just one of the many reasons I'm glad I do not hold any position in ADBE.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 02:42:38 AM by dgatwood »

Meh

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2013, 02:57:03 AM »
Not really the same thing.  If a website goes down, you've lost access to articles.  Yes, I'd expect them to extend your subscription if it is down for very long, but frankly, even if the site went away, the only thing you've actually lost is the last month's subscription fee, or the last year's fee if you were subscribing on an annual basis.  It's peanuts.

Of course it's the same thing... you're just arbitrarily choosing to place higher importance on one than the other as a differentiating factor.  This whole argument about needing to go back and access working PSD files long into the future is also very arbitrary.  Well, what if I've been paying for my diglloyd, been using some techniques to get some shots, then in the future I want to go back and use the technique again but need to refresh my memory but the web site is shut down or I let my subscription lapse.  Same thing more or less.

Anyway, my point is only that you have a guy who is complaining about Adobe's new model when he uses a very similar (essentially the same) model for selling information... the traditional way people bought information was in a book that they now "owned" and regardless if the publisher went out of business or stop publishing the book the purchaser still had their book and the information in it.  Is that not the argument that's being used against Adobe's CC model.  Meanwhile, the guy complaining in his article has abandoned the traditional model of selling information in favor of a subscription model.

And like many before you in these threads, you're bringing up the "what if Adobe goes out of business"...  yes it could happen but it's not likely and wouldn't be without warning since as a public company there would be many news announcements and we'd be able to see their earnings fall quarter after quarter.  So please enough of the doomsday scenarios. 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2013, 02:59:39 AM by Meh »

RLPhoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 3120
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 05:29:13 PM »
Just a note of how users are reacting, the petition is over 20,000 signatures. Let's say that they only bought Photoshop CS at one point @ 699$ and refuse to update.

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model


That's around 14 Million less dollars for adobe, not including other apps, just Photoshop. I do hope adobe wakes up.
24LII - 50L - 135L
---------------------------------
www.RamonLperez.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2013, 05:29:13 PM »

privatebydesign

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1613
  • Ermintrude says "moo"
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2013, 06:22:14 PM »
Just a note of how users are reacting, the petition is over 20,000 signatures. Let's say that they only bought Photoshop CS at one point @ 699$ and refuse to update.

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model


That's around 14 Million less dollars for adobe, not including other apps, just Photoshop. I do hope adobe wakes up.

You do realise Adobe is a multinational corporation with a market capitalisation of around 22 billion US dollars and sales around 13 million A DAY? If every one of those objectors refused to ever give Adobe another cent their sales would see less than a 1/3 of 1% drop.

Not saying don't object, just putting it in perspective.
The best time to plant a tree is twenty-five years ago. The second best time is today.

RLPhoto

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 3120
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2013, 06:32:47 PM »
Just a note of how users are reacting, the petition is over 20,000 signatures. Let's say that they only bought Photoshop CS at one point @ 699$ and refuse to update.

https://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model


That's around 14 Million less dollars for adobe, not including other apps, just Photoshop. I do hope adobe wakes up.

You do realise Adobe is a multinational corporation with a market capitalisation of around 22 billion US dollars and sales around 13 million A DAY? If every one of those objectors refused to ever give Adobe another cent their sales would see less than a 1/3 of 1% drop.

Not saying don't object, just putting it in perspective.

20,000 Users petitioned, that doesn't mean they're isn't more like 100,000 or more. Even yet, add Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and Indesign and you've got hundreds of millions of dollars. Adobe won't go bankrupt over night but over time could lead to its waning as the market leader.

So yes, It's relative.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 06:34:52 PM by RLPhoto »
24LII - 50L - 135L
---------------------------------
www.RamonLperez.com

GodIsLove

  • PowerShot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2013, 06:58:44 PM »
I owned CS5.5... I just upgraded to CS6 and do not plan on going to Creative Cloud.  I want to own my own software... not be forever indebted to a company with rent.  If my budget ever gets tight with my business, then I suddenly lose access to my only means to continue earning a living.  Not a good business move for me.  I expect we'll see some strong competitors showing very soon that will fill the void where Adobe dropped us.

Harry Muff

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr:
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2013, 07:08:09 PM »
Unfortunately, if anybody was going to offer a serious alternative to PS, they would have by now. And the Adobe development freight train isn't going to stop for anyone. I've downloaded the trials of the competitors' software and it all just seems cheap and amateurish in comparison.


CS6 will be ahead of the pack for a long long time. So buy with confidence.


Also, the added features that Adobe will add to PS CC might just be covered by third parties through plugins.
In fact, the plugin developers might just be about to hit the jackpot.


We buy CS6 and they provide the updates. Works for me!
Some cameras… With Canon written on them. Oh, and some lenses… Also with Canon written on them. Oh, and a shiny camera with Fuji written on it too...

Feel free to have a wander round my flickr

pdirestajr

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 695
    • View Profile
    • flickr
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2013, 07:58:17 PM »
CC really only makes sense for professionals who use most of their creative suite tools. Between Lightroom and PSE, shouldn't the hobbyist market be covered? I really don't se why the whole internets went nuts over this. Nothing in this digital universe is really tangible or "owned" for any significant period of time. Shoot film or pick up a paintbrush! Art will go on.
7D | 5DII | EOS-3 | Nikon F3 | Mamiya 645 Pro-TL

Harry Muff

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr:
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:44 PM »
CC really only makes sense for professionals who use most of their creative suite tools. Between Lightroom and PSE, shouldn't the hobbyist market be covered? I really don't se why the whole internets went nuts over this. Nothing in this digital universe is really tangible or "owned" for any significant period of time. Shoot film or pick up a paintbrush! Art will go on.


A lot of us might not be pros (yet), but we still like to do the heavy retouching that only PS will allow us to do.


Lightroom is enough for most, but not all of us. I use it to get me into the ballpark before going into PS. The rest of the time it is just a photo organiser.
Some cameras… With Canon written on them. Oh, and some lenses… Also with Canon written on them. Oh, and a shiny camera with Fuji written on it too...

Feel free to have a wander round my flickr

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2013, 08:32:44 PM »

unfocused

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1764
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2013, 09:42:18 PM »
CC really only makes sense for professionals who use most of their creative suite tools. Between Lightroom and PSE, shouldn't the hobbyist market be covered? I really don't se why the whole internets went nuts over this. Nothing in this digital universe is really tangible or "owned" for any significant period of time. Shoot film or pick up a paintbrush! Art will go on.


A lot of us might not be pros (yet), but we still like to do the heavy retouching that only PS will allow us to do.


Lightroom is enough for most, but not all of us. I use it to get me into the ballpark before going into PS. The rest of the time it is just a photo organiser.

There are thousands of users out there who are not professionals, but who use more than one program. For decades Abode has marketed their products to both professionals and hobbyists/amateurs/part timers. It is that second base of users that Adobe is abandoning. Their one-size-fits-all pricing means a hobbyist (once the "promotional" pricing ends) has to cough up $600 a year.

The Adobe apologists can talk until they are blue in the face, but the public knows when they are being ripped off.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Harry Muff

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 370
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr:
Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2013, 10:18:08 PM »
Ironically, the best way to send a message to Adobe is to buy their product.


Buying CS6 rather than renting will show the model we prefer. And when it comes round to the time when people would normally be upgrading, then they'll notice that people are sticking with what they've got.
Some cameras… With Canon written on them. Oh, and some lenses… Also with Canon written on them. Oh, and a shiny camera with Fuji written on it too...

Feel free to have a wander round my flickr

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Adobe Creative Cloud - Adobe Owns you!
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2013, 10:18:08 PM »