August 28, 2014, 07:05:45 AM

Author Topic: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3  (Read 9061 times)

Chris Burch

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Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« on: June 12, 2013, 01:51:23 AM »
I shot a wedding last weekend and the grooms' suits are showing up with a crazy amount of moire that I haven't seen before.  I was shooting a 1DX and 5D3 with a 24-40 f/2.8II and a 70-200 f/2.8II with natural light and flash and saw moire in every combination.  Here is a sample with the 1DX and 24-70 with flash.  Any thoughts on avoiding/correcting it?
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verysimplejason

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 02:16:57 AM »
I shot a wedding last weekend and the grooms' suits are showing up with a crazy amount of moire that I haven't seen before.  I was shooting a 1DX and 5D3 with a 24-40 f/2.8II and a 70-200 f/2.8II with natural light and flash and saw moire in every combination.  Here is a sample with the 1DX and 24-70 with flash.  Any thoughts on avoiding/correcting it?

Change the color and design of their coats.  ;D  Just joking, anyway,  here are some links on how to "reduce" them in LR.

http://photographylife.com/how-to-reduce-moire-in-lightroom-4
http://www.texaschicksblogsandpics.com/lightroom-tutorial-what-is-moire-and-how-to-fix-it/

And Photoshop:

http://photographylife.com/how-to-remove-moire-in-photoshop
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 02:21:39 AM by verysimplejason »

wockawocka

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 04:31:12 AM »
Odd that Moire is starting to surface now. What firmware are you running?
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

Chris Burch

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 09:47:16 AM »
I'm using the latest firmware on both cameras.
Canon 1DX, 5D Mark III, 5D MarkII

Chris Burch

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 11:10:56 AM »
Thanks for the link to the LR info.  I knew I has seen a moire settings in there somewhere but hadn't thought about looking under the brush tool.  It seems to be doing decent job of at least removing the extra colors but the pattern still remains.  I'm having a terrible time of getting it to work the way it should too.  LR5 seems rather buggy to me so far.
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RVB

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 03:42:02 PM »
I shot a wedding last weekend and the grooms' suits are showing up with a crazy amount of moire that I haven't seen before.  I was shooting a 1DX and 5D3 with a 24-40 f/2.8II and a 70-200 f/2.8II with natural light and flash and saw moire in every combination.  Here is a sample with the 1DX and 24-70 with flash.  Any thoughts on avoiding/correcting it?

The lens is oversampling the sensor.another reason for high megapixel sensor's,the best way to avoid it is to use F8 or even F11 and let diffraction take care of this problem,the 24-70ii and 70-200ii are very sharp lenses,stopping down to diffraction territory will soften the lens....

Superka

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 04:12:31 PM »
I use film and never had moire  :P

RLPhoto

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 06:02:18 PM »
Your not alone. I get moire on very tight patterns on a super lenses like the 135L. Look at the tie...

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 09:10:00 PM »
For really gray stuff you use desaturate brush.

Some RAW decoders are more prone to color moire than others. ACR is very prone to color moire, but also produces superb fine micro-contrast. DPP has less color moire but a lot more zipper artifacts and doesn't quite extract the finest detail with as much micro-contrast and has very heavy handed and ugly NR. C1 is sort of between the two in some ways, it some gets dot line artifacts where super fine lines turn into dotted lines.

TAF

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 10:57:52 PM »

The lens is oversampling the sensor.


I'm afraid I don't understand this statement.  A lens is an analog device; I don't see how it can "sample" anything.

Ideally, it provides a perfect image focused upon the sensor - that's the goal, is it not?  At worst, the image has lost some resolution, and perhaps has some aberrations introduced.  But moire isn't either of these two effects.  As the respondent below pointed out, you never see this sort of thing with film (an analog media).

So I would assume it is a byproduct of the way the system samples the sensor array and merges the four color pixels into one.  But the lens has nothing to do with that, unless you are suggesting that there is something inherent to the performance of the lens that causes this effect when the sensor samples.

Would you please explain this (or point me to a reference that does)?

Thank you.


Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 11:26:16 PM »

The lens is oversampling the sensor.


I'm afraid I don't understand this statement.  A lens is an analog device; I don't see how it can "sample" anything.

Ideally, it provides a perfect image focused upon the sensor - that's the goal, is it not?  At worst, the image has lost some resolution, and perhaps has some aberrations introduced.  But moire isn't either of these two effects.  As the respondent below pointed out, you never see this sort of thing with film (an analog media).

So I would assume it is a byproduct of the way the system samples the sensor array and merges the four color pixels into one.  But the lens has nothing to do with that, unless you are suggesting that there is something inherent to the performance of the lens that causes this effect when the sensor samples.

Would you please explain this (or point me to a reference that does)?

Thank you.
Its a side effect that appears as you get higher frequencies in the image.   Unfortunately, once its captured, it can be reduced but not eliminated.
 
The part the lens plays is in delivering high resolution that lets the fine detail be projected on the sensor.  Stopping way down filters out the moirĂ© by reducing resolution.
 
https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9544/~/what-is-moir%E3%A9%3F
 
 

sanj

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2013, 11:45:36 PM »
That looks bad!! Like a cheap video camera. Thanks for sharing, I will be careful!

Pi

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 12:42:57 AM »
Is that 100% zoom or it has been downsampled?

Chris Burch

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 10:51:14 AM »
On mine, I cropped that down some, but it looked exactly like that at 1:1 view in LR.  I also pulled it up in another program to see if it was an LightRoom thing, but it looked the same there, too.
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TAF

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Re: Moire in the 1DX and 5D3
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 09:39:35 PM »
Its a side effect that appears as you get higher frequencies in the image.   Unfortunately, once its captured, it can be reduced but not eliminated.
 
The part the lens plays is in delivering high resolution that lets the fine detail be projected on the sensor.  Stopping way down filters out the moirĂ© by reducing resolution.
 
https://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/9544/~/what-is-moir%E3%A9%3F
 
 
[/quote]

Thank you very much for pointing me to that explanation.  I get the picture now (sorry, couldn't resist).